My Gf Has Hiv - An Update

[girlx]

I traveled to Phnom Penh yesterday and met up with Steve who is a bundle of nerves. I got him to the Airport where we met with Sheryl had a long talk with him and assured him that going back to Australia was the wright thing to do

that was really nice of you guys to help him out! maybe this forum is good for something!

[Sheryl]

Indeed it is,and Tony deserves very special applause for making a 4 hour (each way) trip to help a complete stranger.

I was stranded in Thailand until just a few hours before Steve's flight left, and given his condition, there is no way he would have gotten on that flight if Tony had not come up and spent the day with him providing moral support. And having seen Steve, believe me, if he hadn't gotten on that plane then he might well have met with a very bad end. He was already very much at the end of his rope and no longer able to think clearly.

Bless you Tony!!!

[Chopper]

Well done Sheryl and Tony. Act's of human kindness like this define the very essence of how people can come together and help out complete strangers in their moments of distress. It certainly is a superb validation of this forum and is a testament that there still exists decent people whom are willing at the drop of a hat (could have rephrased that better) to go way out of their way to help others.

I have read this thread with interest and it is good to know that Steve has left Cambodia.

[kat]

That had me on the edge of my seat. Good intervention Sheryl and Tony! Very well done. I am so glad he is back in Aus now. He will have a very rocky recovery, but at least he is now removed from a horrific situation.

I need an intervention now, from my horrible job and horrible boss, a little further in on the return home than Steve. Well, it takes a while, but don't give up.

A peaceful, stable life is worth fighting for.

[Ijustwannateach]

Major kudos to Tony and Sheryl- and I think both of you have been forces for good on the forum. Hang in there with the J-O-B, Kat.....

[pop_corn]

ppl like Tony and Sheryl makes this world a better place, thanks!

[stevenjm]

ppl like Tony and Sheryl makes this world a better place, thanks!

Too Right!

Am now back in Aus and trying to figure where to go from here. There has been further developments in which I now know threat on my life was real and would probably be sitting in cambodian pine box about now if had not left. So thanks everybody for having the insight in encouraging me to leave and to tony and sheryl for making sure I got on that flight. Were it not for either of these two kind people there is no way I would have got on that flight and in effect they have probably saved my life. My never ending gratitude.

Will post more about how the saga has developed, and boy its quite a saga, after, and if, I get permission from person supplying me with up to date information.

Thanks all again

and stay tuned.

[stevenjm]

ppl like Tony and Sheryl makes this world a better place, thanks!

Too Right!

Am now back in Aus and trying to figure where to go from here. There has been further developments in which I now know threat on my life was real and would probably be sitting in cambodian pine box about now if had not left. So thanks everybody for having the insight in encouraging me to leave and to tony and sheryl for making sure I got on that flight. Were it not for either of these two kind people there is no way I would have got on that flight and in effect they have probably saved my life. My never ending gratitude.

Will post more about how the saga has developed, and boy its quite a saga, after, and if, I get permission from person supplying me with up to date information.

Thanks all again

and stay tuned.

With permission of kind person helping me through this ordeal (I think we all know who)

I received the following correspondence:

Dear Steve,

Recent events lead me to share your conclusion and I will so notify the sangkat and commune chief on your behalf if you will fax the land lease document to me.

Basically what has happened is that the guy (her supplier) is heavily involved in the attempted sale of the house and dictating everything. Clearly has control over Naka, she seems afraid of him but also willing to be controlled (I think he is making skillful use of the ice to secure his hold on her while milking her for all he can get). xxxx witnessed an attempted sale (at ridiculously low price) where a willing buyer was on hand, Naka brought this guy into the negotiations, both he and she were obviously high, he began shouting and making outrageous demands which had the effect of scaring the buyer away. Attempts by xxxx and her family to talk sense to Naka entirely in vain and brought them into some danger, there was even some violence from that guy and some monetary loss incurred. No-one was seriously hurt and the money lost isn't too much, don't worry about either as I can take care of it, but it is enough to make it clear to me that xxxx and her family will have to cut off direct contact with Naka until she is no longer using ice and this guy is no longer on the scene (the latter most likely will occur when she no longer has any money or hope of same). As you did, they will tell her that they are still there for her when she is really ready to accept help, but for their own safety I must tell them to step away from the situation till then.

Naka had indeed turned over the land title to some borrowing agency but in her efforts to sell the land she bought it back with money from the prospective buyer (who has backed out now and is thus out that money for good). But very likely before the day is out it will again have been given as collateral for a loan. However even such a group having the title will not I think enable a sale to go through without the approval of the commune and district, so do send me that fax.

DO NOT EVEN THINK OF SENDING NAKA MONEY! The situation right now is that everything she gets goes straight into that goon's hands, and there is no hope at all of getting her to stop using or listen to reason until he is out of the picture, and that will only happen when she is destitute. The money will not be well spent and will just perpetuate the sick situation. Sad but true, we have to let her really hit rock bottom. She knows where to get help once she has.

Although for their own safety xxxx and her family will stop direct contact, they can and will continue to get indirect info on what's going on from neighbors and local officials, easy to do since they have land in the same area, and I'll keep you informed. Depending on what I am hearing, I may try one direct face-to-face talk with Naka myself but only immediately prior to leaving country (again, safety concerns). But I don't hold out much hope until she has run completely out of assets, stopped using and this creep has moved on to his next victim.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news, but it's not exactly unexpected. One silver lining to things being this bad is that it makes the proper course of action crystal clear: you and all others who would like to help her should back off ("detach with love" as they say in Al-Anon) entirely for now. No money and no direct contact, just prayers or the equivalent (metta in Buddhist terms) and a readiness to step in later on if she has hit bottom and is willing to accept help.

Do contact Al-Anon (as well as NA), they can help you through the pain and grief you are feeling. Believe me, Steve, I know what it is like and when I tell you not to send money and not to contact her I do so knowing first hand how hard to do that is. I told you about my brother. I probably didn't have time to mention that the aunt and uncle who more or less raised me are also active alcoholics and that just recently my uncle has launched on an all-out effort to drink himself to death...gets falling down drunk nightly and is well on the path to liver failure. I love them both dearly and can do nothing to help. Just as I can do nothing for my brother (and failed when I tried) and now don't even know if he is dead or alive. So I do know what it is that you are going through and how hard to follow this advice is. But I also know fits hand how disastrous the results are if you don't.

For all your pain, I detect clearer thinking in your last few emails which is an excellent sign. Most of what you say is on target but there were a few places where I still saw some "faulty thinking"so to speak and I'd like to address those as follows:

"I did not realize that she respected what I did for her so little that she would plan on just selling it out from under me, leaving me with nothing" "I wanted to try to find where this sudden betrayal and hatred had come from.""

Steve, this has nothing to do with Naka as a person's feelings towards you or what you did for her. Naka now is lost in a web of complete delusion and confusion, incapable of understanding reality, her brain chemistry so distorted and her upper brain function so constrained that she isn't really thinking at all. What you are seeing is not her, it is the disease of addiction. It is possible also that the ice use has triggered a latent psychiatric disorder but impossible to know until she stops using. (The effects of amphetamine use closely mimic bipolar disorder and can also set it off in susceptible people.) If she were in a coma would you feel offended because she was ignoring you? Of course not, you'd understand that this was the natural effect of the coma. Well, her seeming selfishness, hatred, ingratitude etc etc are the natural effects of the brain disorder caused by the use of amphetamines. No more, no less.

"I did not travel this far to see her die from ###### drugs"

The harsh reality is that you need to accept the fact that whether or not she dies from the drugs is not something you can control, and that it may happen. Again, Al-Anon can help a lot on this point. You're an individual person, not a god, and while you can offer love and help and other gifts to people you can't control whether or not they accept them or how they use them. Everyone has their own karma to work out and we can't do it for anyone else, we can only play a;positive supporting role now and then if they let us.

"So sorry I got you involved in this xxx2."

You didn't, Steve. I chose my involvement with my eyes wide open and I am setting appropriate limits as necessary to protect myself from any negative consequences. My choice, not yours, so nothing for you to feel sorry about. I don't regret my involvement either, because I know that what I have done has been for the right motives. I have learned to make my peace with that and leave the outcome to a higher power than myself. Not easily learned, but possible, and this is what you need to do also.

"I feel so pathetically useless that I managed to achieve nothing, I just wanted her happy because I could see the pain in her eyes from the moment I met her."

You feel you achieved nothing only because you are defining success in terms of things that are beyond your control, a classic pattern among Al-Anoners. As long as you do that, whether in this situation or any other, you are setting yourself up for failure and feelings of worthlessness. You need to revise your ideas of achievement to reflect only that which is entirely within your own control. By such standards, actually to me you achieved a lot:

* you sincerely loved another human being

* you accepted love during the brief period that she was able to give it back

* you got her access to the medical care needed to save her life

* you were able to reach out for help and get yourself out when the situation turned and posed an immediate danger to you

The above list, which is by no means exhaustive of everything you did while in Cambodia, is no small set of achievements. Lots of people go their whole lives without achieving even one of the first 3, and some people throw their lives away by being unable to do the fourth.

In addition, you are in the process of learning from the situation (we always learn the most from the most painful events) and, I hope, will soon use that knowledge to make some very important and valuable personal transformations. Not to keep harping in Vipassna and Al-Anon/NA, but I have seen so many people come to feel that the losses and disasters which pushed them to these were in the long run blessings.

I know what you mean about the pain in her eyes, I see it to. She is indeed a damaged person, but damaged hurting people don't always accept the help they need. I see the pain in Naka but I also see it in YOU. And I suspect it pre-dates, at least to some extent, this tragedy. Were you perhaps hoping to relieve your own pain by removing hers? I've walked that road myself and can assure you from bitter experience, it never works in the long run, although you may gain brief temporary good feelings your own un derlying pain always returns until you've worked through it directly on your own. You can't do anything about Naka's underlying hurt and pain but you can do something about your own, choice is yours.

"I have spent well over 100,000 us dollars with her trying to make her happy and to come out with nothing"

See above. You can never make another person happy, every one of us has to find our own path to happiness. But you don't come out of this with nothing of value unless you choose to. You have the option of coming out of this a better, stronger person with fewer character flaws and a reservoir of inner peace that will see you through whatever ups and downs lie ahead. in the many years of life you have left to you. You've already taken the necessary steps to get out of this with your health and life; and you have been pointed to the path to get the other things just mentioned.

"Please let me know if sending a small amount of cash fortnightly is going to prevent house sale and if its just out of financial problems or whether she has done a job on a stupid fool who was trying to make somebodies life happier."

As I think I have already made clear, under no circumstances should you send any money at all. Likewise forget about trying to get her to realize anything, at this point in time it would be more fruitful to talk to someone in a coma which in a sense she is...a walking, talking active one but equally incapable of rational thought or perception.

She hasn't "done a job"on you, nothing that is going on with her is that rational or calculated. She has just started to drown in a sea of confusion and drugs and like any drowning person clutched at and imperiled anyone near enough to grab onto to. Fortunately you have extricated yourself in time to save yourself.

As for being a "stupid fool"....in having loved her and tried to help her, not at all. But if you choose to let the tragic choices she made be an occasion for life-long misery for you, then you will be! If on the other hand you use this as a turning point for yourself you will come out a wise person indeed. These are not just platitudes, Steve, I know these things to be true.

" I knew this would end badly somehow but ... I thought at the end of the day ... I would come away feeling a better person for knowing I had done everything within my power to help her."

Steve, you did do everything in your power to help her. That this doesn't leave you feeling like a better person is faulty thinking on your part. In all good works we may do, there are powers and forces beyond our control that contribute to the outcome too. Some people use that fact as an excuse not to try, some people beat themselves up for not being all-powerful. And some learn to make their peace with doing what they can and leaving the final results to a higher power. Right now you are going for option #2, I suggest you reconsider.

With continuing vibrations of good wishes, xxx2

More to come no doubt over the next week or so

[Jimjim]

Well Homer, you are doing the right thing. How about the divorce? Is it going to be coming?

[stevenjm]

Well Homer, you are doing the right thing. How about the divorce? Is it going to be coming?

No. I made a commitment and will be there if needed.

[lannarebirth]

Well Homer, you are doing the right thing. How about the divorce? Is it going to be coming?

No. I made a commitment and will be there if needed.

What's the difference between a martyr and a codependent? In this case, nothing, that I can see. To the OP, see if there is codependents anonymous branch near you.

[girlx]

hmm i just realized by looking it up that I am a codependent!

p.s. here is a list of Codependents Anonymous metings in Thailand see here

you can also look them up for wherever you are

[pete_r]

Steve, thanks for sharing your story and showing from inside the mechanisms and consequences of drug addiction. Particularly how the dealer can get control over his victim to snatch all the cash he can.

If nothing else, your experience will help me be better prepared if/when someone near me becomes affected.

Also a big pat in the back to Sheryl and Tony for their intervention.

[stevenjm]

Well Homer, you are doing the right thing. How about the divorce? Is it going to be coming?

No. I made a commitment and will be there if needed.

What's the difference between a martyr and a codependent? In this case, nothing, that I can see. To the OP, see if there is codependents anonymous branch near you.

Yeah, good on you sidechair phsychiatrist. I have been in plenty of relationships and plenty of times on my own and never have I felt compelled to help somebody so much before, Thats not co-dependancy its love you retard.

Go back and check phsych 101 before passing judgement on somebody you know no history or past of.

[lannarebirth]

Well Homer, you are doing the right thing. How about the divorce? Is it going to be coming?

No. I made a commitment and will be there if needed.

What's the difference between a martyr and a codependent? In this case, nothing, that I can see. To the OP, see if there is codependents anonymous branch near you.

Yeah, good on you sidechair phsychiatrist. I have been in plenty of relationships and plenty of times on my own and never have I felt compelled to help somebody so much before, Thats not co-dependancy its love you retard.

Go back and check phsych 101 before passing judgement on somebody you know no history or past of.

I accept your scorn, and might even deserve it for perhaps being too blunt. No harm in checking out girlx's link anyhow is there? I sincerely wish you the very best. Sheryl and Tony what fine examples of good samaritans you are.

[stevenjm]

What's the difference between a martyr and a codependent? In this case, nothing, that I can see. To the OP, see if there is codependents anonymous branch near you.

Yeah, good on you sidechair phsychiatrist. I have been in plenty of relationships and plenty of times on my own and never have I felt compelled to help somebody so much before, Thats not co-dependancy its love you retard.

Go back and check phsych 101 before passing judgement on somebody you know no history or past of.

Well Homer, you are doing the right thing. How about the divorce? Is it going to be coming?

No. I made a commitment and will be there if needed.

What's the difference between a martyr and a codependent? In this case, nothing, that I can see. To the OP, see if there is codependents anonymous branch near you.

I feel sorry for you because you have obviously never experienced true love or you would know what I am talking about.

I make no habit of being a martyr or any other type of defective relationship quirks. What I got was to finally experience true love which has always lacked in previous relationships.

So that puts me one up on you, one true love in life beats your nil.

[Mobi]

Steve, I am so glad to hear you are back in Oz, and are thinking clearly.

Just do whatever you think is right - and I know that in the end you will do the right thing.

I don't have to tell you that you were so lucky to have two very special people to help you through this.

I know Tony well, and he has a heart of gold and is always there for so many of us.

And as for Sheryl - well what can I say? Some time ago I called her Thai Visa's Florence Nightingale - but , in fact she is far more than that.

We are indeed privileged to know - if only through cyber space - such special souls.

Good luck Steve, and your poor, blighted wife.

[stevenjm]

Steve, I am so glad to hear you are back in Oz, and are thinking clearly.

Just do whatever you think is right - and I know that in the end you will do the right thing.

I don't have to tell you that you were so lucky to have two very special people to help you through this.

I know Tony well, and he has a heart of gold and is always there for so many of us.

And as for Sheryl - well what can I say? Some time ago I called her Thai Visa's Florence Nightingale - but , in fact she is far more than that.

We are indeed privileged to know - if only through cyber space - such special souls.

Good luck Steve, and your poor, blighted wife.

Thanks Mobi. And I am so glad you pointed out sheryl and tony, it makes me feel good that other people do actually know about these very special 2 people. And you are right, Sheryl is way more than that. I would be so honoured to ever come close to possesing any of Sheryls qualities and way of thinking. A few years back she even gave her own blood to help Naka, a complete stranger to her.

[mrtoad]

Being a pretty cynical person, it is post's like these that restore my belief that there are more decent people around thand bad.

I certainly don't beleive that this is necessarily about codependency and giving a diagnosis of sorts without knowing the history is like playing dice, some people just have a much higher tolerance level of situations and problems. To the OP good on you, for trying to make a relationship work. I hope that you will make the correct and informed decision when you are in a more settled state. Things, are still to raw for you to make that big decison. (Not that I'm suggesting that you should divorce her). You have already made some progress in realising that you need to remove yourself from the environment and deal with your own problems. Sort yourself out first. It appears that you have good friends like Sheryl and Tony and people like that are pretty rare.

I hope it all works out for you, and don't get involved in pointless debates with people who don't share the same outlook as you. Remeber, when you bare your sole on a forum like this then you are going to be open to views that you don't like. You should choose to ignore them, and concentrate on your own well being In the end you have to make your own decisions and decide what advice you intend to listen to.

Personally, I wouldn't be as open with my life on a forum, but that is your choice and I wish you all the best.

[lannarebirth]

Being a pretty cynical person, it is post's like these that restore my belief that there are more decent people around thand bad.

I certainly don't beleive that this is necessarily about codependency and giving a diagnosis of sorts without knowing the history is like playing dice, some people just have a much higher tolerance level of situations and problems. To the OP good on you, for trying to make a relationship work. I hope that you will make the correct and informed decision when you are in a more settled state. Things, are still to raw for you to make that big decison. (Not that I'm suggesting that you should divorce her). You have already made some progress in realising that you need to remove yourself from the environment and deal with your own problems. Sort yourself out first. It appears that you have good friends like Sheryl and Tony and people like that are pretty rare.

I hope it all works out for you, and don't get involved in pointless debates with people who don't share the same outlook as you. Remeber, when you bare your sole on a forum like this then you are going to be open to views that you don't like. You should choose to ignore them, and concentrate on your own well being In the end you have to make your own decisions and decide what advice you intend to listen to.

Personally, I wouldn't be as open with my life on a forum, but that is your choice and I wish you all the best.

That's all good advice and I may have been out of line in my posting. I really do feel the OP loves this girl terribly and gave what anyone else in that situation would, and I commend him for it. My codependent observation stems from reading so many of his comments that seemed to dwell on "what I did for her", "I spent xxxx dollars to make her happy and came outwith nothing" etc. I admit it may be too early for him to examine his motivations in this ordeal that has wreaked havoc on his girlfroends life and his. I apologize that I've upset him. Still, when he's feeling up to it, he may want to check out girlx's link. I won't say anymore i this topic. I wish the OP and his wife the very best.

[jayhech]

Your wife's that sick she can't think straight that's why she's behaving all bad, she knows her time is almost up. What she needs now is more attention, more and more, which you should admit you can't give anymore. Your health is now at risk, physically and mentally. The thing for you to do is just get out of the situation before it's worsen than worse. Forget about the house. You have plenty of healthier time to make money in any other healthier environment.

There's no excuse for any drugs. If you have to rely on drugs then you can't think straight. I think what you should do first is to take yourself out of that valium or any tablets habit, then you'll know what exactly to do for your own good. Be strong and good luck to you.

[jayhech]

My previous came a bit late, but I'm glad you're safe back at home Steve. Take care.

[stevenjm]

Being a pretty cynical person, it is post's like these that restore my belief that there are more decent people around thand bad.

I certainly don't beleive that this is necessarily about codependency and giving a diagnosis of sorts without knowing the history is like playing dice, some people just have a much higher tolerance level of situations and problems. To the OP good on you, for trying to make a relationship work. I hope that you will make the correct and informed decision when you are in a more settled state. Things, are still to raw for you to make that big decison. (Not that I'm suggesting that you should divorce her). You have already made some progress in realising that you need to remove yourself from the environment and deal with your own problems. Sort yourself out first. It appears that you have good friends like Sheryl and Tony and people like that are pretty rare.

I hope it all works out for you, and don't get involved in pointless debates with people who don't share the same outlook as you. Remeber, when you bare your sole on a forum like this then you are going to be open to views that you don't like. You should choose to ignore them, and concentrate on your own well being In the end you have to make your own decisions and decide what advice you intend to listen to.

Personally, I wouldn't be as open with my life on a forum, but that is your choice and I wish you all the best.

That's all good advice and I may have been out of line in my posting. I really do feel the OP loves this girl terribly and gave what anyone else in that situation would, and I commend him for it. My codependent observation stems from reading so many of his comments that seemed to dwell on "what I did for her", "I spent xxxx dollars to make her happy and came outwith nothing" etc. I admit it may be too early for him to examine his motivations in this ordeal that has wreaked havoc on his girlfroends life and his. I apologize that I've upset him. Still, when he's feeling up to it, he may want to check out girlx's link. I won't say anymore i this topic. I wish the OP and his wife the very best.

Beleive me when I say this post was the most embarassing thing I have ever done in my life, but I was desperate and in an area with no supporrt and going downhill fast. I have detached myself from situation and am not dillusional, I have no unreal feelings of ever resolving this mess and returning to claim the bliss I once had however I will be there for support if she ever needs help. I have stopped taking tablets and feel lousy and the only reason I posted second time was because I figured it may be of benefit to at least one person to know the type of things that can happen in Cambodia when drug dealing scumbags find a weak target. My comments on "what I have done" bla bla came from hurt and betrayal and from not knowing the truth about how bad and serious things had become. Reading this whole thread to me now is totally embarrassing but it has probably saved my life so I can handle a little public baring of emotion.Truth be known there probably is a clinical term for what I went through but its certainly not co-dependancy, I can be an ###### in a relationship just as well as anybody else, more likely clinical term you should be looking for is almost nervous breakdown on a public forum through having nobody else to turn to for advice and having the insight to know my life was close to over without help or advice from somebody.

[rainman]

Wow, this thread is freaky. Especially the first post really went down my back like an ice cube. I'm sorry for resurrecting this somewhat old thread, but I wanted to check how the OP is doing now? Did you go back to Australia?

[Patsycat]

I agree. Steve, I hope you are well and please let us know that!

[Westerner]

Sounds to me like this girl was a scheming, manipulative piece of shit and you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

[Sheryl]

Westerner, this did not occur in Thailand, it was in Cambodia. Having met the woman in question both early in the relationship and then again just recently, I don't think your assessment is quite correct. She was an emotionally damaged individual who got into using crystal meth at the urging of an ex-boyfriend who, seeing she was now married to a foreigner with land and a house etc, spotted an opportunity. He is now busy ripping her off for everything he manipulated her into getting off the OP.

I'm not sure if the OP is still logging on to TV, but for those who asked, he is safely back in Australia and trying to pick up the pieces of his life. His wife meanwhile is on a rapid spiral of self-destruction.

A thoroughly sad story but I would disagree that it is something specific to SE Asia. Stories like this abound in every culture. Plenty of families in the West with similiar tales of woe as the result of a family member using drugs.

[Suszzy]

a very sad story!!

don't know what to say.

how the op is doing now?

and his wife, hope she's getting help.

[Wizzard of Oz]

<deleted>

[stevenjm]

Wow! What a state of mind I was in.

And thanks again to 2 very special TV people for helping me through this (and still helping). One door closes and another opens - these 2 people are my open door and have saved my life.

In the interest of the saga heres what happened:

Flew back to aus and the next day was contacted by special person 1 and informed that my wife and drug dealing scumbag were trying to sell house for ridiculous price and that special person 1's friends had managed (after an assault attempt on them) to block the sale.

A couple of days later another sale was attempted and once again special person one and friends blocked sale with copy of land lease. Wife and scumbag had already managed to secure deposit before sale was blocked at agreed price of 17,000us (not a bad deal for somebody considering it was western style brick rendered home with swimming pool and had been offered 60,000 us before it was even finished)

Things at this point became ugly. wife bought armed corrupt police and gangsters to next meeting and lives of special person 1's friends were threatened. At this point it was quite obvious whoever acted on my part to collect money would be robbed or maybe even killed after sale had gone through.

Contacted powerful police friend who went out to province armed and managed to come out with 5,000us. After payouts to players ended up with 3700us at aus end. bettet than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick and enough to pay my visa card and enough leftover for my new phsychologist who seems pretty good.

Wife possibly dead by now as had bad tb and pneumonia when I left. Will not call her so I don't have to deal with that and can imagine she got help and is ok

Oh Yeah, was set up on drug charges by scumbag and am to be arrested if I return to Cambodia. Am in negotation with police friend over this last issue though as have one little bit of unfinished business

Thanks heaps to everyone here. Without doubt would now be dead or in Cambodian prison without the help I recieved from people here.

Maybe try phillipines next as Australia sucks and feel like fish out of water here.