Problems with fluorescent lighting

[Sheryl]

23 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

No this can't be fixed at the switch

 

No increase in energy consumption, no real hazard to the user, but sparkies who are less than careful may get bitten.

 

You could try adding a capacitor at the fitting, just connect L-N. 

 

The 1uF variant of these would do the trick and easy to wire in.

https://www.lazada.co.th//products/i4822968210-s20050874277.html

 

Thanks. Probably the best option as not only would rewiring all the lights be a huge job, it would be very hard to find a competent electrician. From exhaustive past experience there are none in my area and ones in Bangkok aren't willing to come out for what is (from their point of view) a small job.

 

How exactly does one wire these in? And what do you mean by "just connect L-N"? Connect the wires where and to what?  (I will have to instruct handyman). 

 

They are cheap enough certainly. How long do they last? 

[Crossy]

Just connect the two wires to the two wires in your fitting.

 

You can often poke the cap through the hole in the ceiling so it doesn't cast shadows.

 

In this application they should last pretty much forever.

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

40 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Just connect the two wires to the two wires in your fitting.

 

You can often poke the cap through the hole in the ceiling so it doesn't cast shadows.

 

In this application they should last pretty much forever.

 

 

 

 

I don't follow. If I atrach these wires to the fitting how can I also attach the power wires? 

[sometimewoodworker]

56 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't follow. If I atrach these wires to the fitting how can I also attach the power wires? 

Use 2 of these or something similar 

 

colour code 

red power from the switch 

blue power to the light

white one leg of the capacitor 

 

 

I can’t immediately find my capacitors so you must use imagination 

 

you can use the Thai system of twisting all 3 wires together 

[sometimewoodworker]

you can just plug the capacitor legs into the blue and brown in your picture 

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I don't follow. If I atrach these wires to the fitting how can I also attach the power wires? 

 

You put two wires in each connector hole.

 

Before (slightly different connector, but the principle is the same)

 

During (twist the wires together)

 

After

[Sheryl]

Got it, thanks!

[degrub]

With the breaker “off” and confirming no voltage on either house wire  before disconnecting lamp from the house wiring ?

[Crossy]

16 minutes ago, degrub said:

With the breaker “off” and confirming no voltage on either house wire  before disconnecting lamp from the house wiring ?

 

On an "unknown" system I pull the main breaker and still check dead at the fitting.

 

It's not unknown for circuits (water heaters seem to be particularly prone) to be hooked to the incoming supply because it was convenient!

 

[daveAustin]

Awesome post, Sheryl. I can feel your frustration . If I were in your area, I'd shoot around as you have helped people with your medical knowledge no end on this site. Many areas in Thailand suffer from over voltage and low voltage 'brownouts', both of which can play havoc with sensitive systems and LEDs from China etc. The still-excited gases in fluorescent tubes will naturally glow for a time when powered down, but if they are always 'on', you likely have a trickle coming over the switch or a neutral issue. This is not 'normal'.

 

Regards amperage, he is indeed getting confused with wattage -- 1kw is around 4A at 240V, so 9kw is about 36A. A water heater drawing only 9A would be of no use to woman nor beast. One also cannot measure amperage in parallel as one would voltage. The zubs have to pass through the meter 'inline' (shifting the leads to a different circuit), or via an amp clamp, and not all meters will take on high amperage as they require special meaty components, so he is probably telling porkies there too. If someone didn't answer, the knob on the right is for zeroing the needle on ohms when measuring resistance to get tighter readings. You don't need to mess with that.

 

A real electrician will have done an apprenticeship over several years, while these handymen types have just picked stuff up. Very dangerous. There are some very competent Thai electricians, however, to which I have had the pleasure working alongside offshore. You wouldn't, of course, get that kind of calibre fixing lights.

 

Hope you got it all fixed. 😉

[Sheryl]

On 2/26/2024 at 11:27 AM, daveAustin said:

Awesome post, Sheryl. I can feel your frustration . If I were in your area, I'd shoot around as you have helped people with your medical knowledge no end on this site. Many areas in Thailand suffer from over voltage and low voltage 'brownouts', both of which can play havoc with sensitive systems and LEDs from China etc. The still-excited gases in fluorescent tubes will naturally glow for a time when powered down, but if they are always 'on', you likely have a trickle coming over the switch or a neutral issue. This is not 'normal'.

 

Indeed not, claims of local "electricians" notwithstanding. It has now been confirmed that the light switches are on neutral rather than live wire.

 

I have ordered capacitators as I'm not up for rewiring the whole house -- especially since my of odds of getting anyone competent to do it are very, very low. (as you note the good electricians are in high demand and not interested in comparatively small jobs. They are also not based in my province.)

 

As for these $%^& LEDs, I have ordered some spare fluorescent bulbs online for use when those light fixtures  still on them go out (to avoid having to shift to LED which are all that is available where I live) and will stick to Lamptan or Toshiba brands when the lights already switched to LED go out. Will probably have to get those online too as it is mostly if not exclusively cheap Chinese or local brands in Home Pro where I live (and exclusively that in other shops).

 

What a nuisance. I understand the theoretical advantages to LEDs but does not work out well in practice in locations with unstable current. Especially when only cheap LEDs are available...🤪

[indyo]

On 2/24/2024 at 4:26 PM, Crossy said:

 

Are you suggesting that the switch should be in the neutral?????????

 

typo...... it's not on neutral.

[xtrnuno41]

@sometimewoodworker  Never the less, I measured 230 Volts in Thailand.

 

 

@Crossy  Sorry but it is not a standard meter. I got it confirmed on https://www.manualslib.com/manual/948383/Sanwa-Yx-360tr.html?page=2#manual

Was amazed to find it on internet.

I already saw the differences, but anyhow checked on that site, as it popped up.

 

A standard model, I still have , looks like this, this meter is already 40 years old, eating dust.

[Sheryl]

The capacitators have arrived. Am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter which wire goes where? They are not marked.

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The capacitators have arrived. Am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter which wire goes where? They are not marked.

 

Correct, either way round is fine

[Crossy]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The capacitators have arrived. Am I correct in thinking it doesn't matter which wire goes where? They are not marked.

 

Did the caps fix the problem??

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Did the caps fix the problem??

No. Pics to follow in a bit.

[Sheryl]

Applied it to 3 lights. All 3 confimred to be wired on the neutral (I suspect all lights in the house are but haven't checked all).

 

1  (bedroom) which had the faintest glow to begin with, seems OK  now. But cannot be totally sure as always the glow is most noticeable in the very middle of the night/wee hours (e.g. 3-5 AM), I would have to wake up then to be sure.

 

1 with severe glow (kitchen) , still glows.

 

 

1 with medium glow, glow has stopped but it no longer turns on at all. (This bulb was just replaced, it is in the bathroom where the prior bulb flickered).

 

 

In both of these 2 the capacitor was placed on the fixture side rather than the incoming power side, could that be the issue?

[Crossy]

Bu99er!

 

It doesn't matter which side of the connector the cap goes.

 

You could try swapping the wires at the fixture (swap blue and brown), it probably won't help but desperation is setting in.

 

[Sheryl]

Could they be dud caps? (6 baht apiece have to wonder....)

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Could they be dud caps? (6 baht apiece have to wonder....)

 

Unlikely really, I regularly pay that, never had a duff one.

 

You could try two caps on the still glowy one (so 3 wires in each hole).

 

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Unlikely really, I regularly pay that, never had a duff one.

 

You could try two caps on the still glowy one (so 3 wires in each hole).

 

2 caps seems to be doing it, glow-wise.

 

Possible he had installed the 1 cap wrong because when I saw him putting on the 2, he had first twined it and the fixture wires together whereas I think supposed to insert them separately (into same slot, but not twined/spliced) or does it matter??

 

As for the light no longer turning in, verified that the bulb was shot (again). New bulb, working for now. Any idea what would account for bulb going out after cap insertion|?

[Crossy]

Twisting the wires ensures a good connection, if you don't twist there's a chance it won't connect perfectly (but probably will).

 

If two caps fixes the issue, great, you could use one of double the value if space is an issue.

 

It's probably pure coincidence that the third light popped after you put the cap in

 

You really shouldn't be popping LEDs this often, something else is awry but exactly what beats me at present.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

You really shouldn't be popping LEDs this often, something else is awry but exactly what beats me at present.

Hopefully it is just combination of cheap LEDs and unstable current/voltage drops. Which might be worse now due to the extreme heat. 

 

I have to wait for delivery of name brand ones, locally only junk available. Other option would be to go back to old style fluorescents. Problem there is I can't find the fittings (ballast, wires). Used to be possible to buy a set including bulb, ballast etc but can't find anymore.

[Daffy D]

Hi Sheryl,

 

I am have a couple of round lights still running on fluorescents, all others I've changed to LED but they don't seem to last as long 

 

Any ways on the couple of fluorescents I have done away with all the old ballast stuff and use these electronic units that are supposed to be more economical and better still give instant on, so no more waiting for the flicker of the light actually come on.

 

I like to be prepared, old boy scout, and recently searched for a couple of these electronic units for spares but can't seem to find any anywhere. I got my originals from HomePro but they seem to have stopped stocking them, it's all LED now 

 

If these electronic units are no longer available this information may not be much use to you  but thought I'd post it anyway. Somebody may find it interesting.

 

If you, or any one do find a supplier do let me know.

 

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

43 minutes ago, Daffy D said:

If you, or any one do find a supplier do let me know.

 

Still some on Lazada

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/lamptan-32w-ballast-electronic-lamptan-32w-i5055147223-s21374435494.html

 

[Daffy D]

49 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Still some on Lazada

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/lamptan-32w-ballast-electronic-lamptan-32w-i5055147223-s21374435494.html

 

Would Adam and Eve it ?

Been searching the Internet on and off for several days and all I ever got was blank or out of stock results 

 

 Of course I tried Lazada but how comes it worked for you but not for me?  You must have magic search fingers 

 

Anyways thanks for the link 

 

I snapped up the last two before they went, so Sheryl if you need one let me know and will gladly send you one. I still would like to keep one spare for myself. 

 

 

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, Daffy D said:

... so Sheryl if you need one let me know and will gladly send you one. I still would like to keep one spare for myself. 

 

I have 4 used ones in-stock if @Sheryl wants a couple, I'll test first of course, just cover the cost of postage.

 

These are ones I removed when fitting LEDs so I've no need for them.

 

I have some warm-white circular tubes too, but I'm not sure they would survive the post-office mangling system.

[Daffy D]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I have 4 used ones in-stock if @Sheryl wants a couple, I'll test first of course, just cover the cost of postage.

 

These are ones I removed when fitting LEDs so I've no need for them.

 

I have some warm-white circular tubes too, but I'm not sure they would survive the post-office mangling system.

Warm-white is my preference in the bedroom, that's why I wanted the electronic thingies. Still got some warm-white tubes so I can use them if necessary.

 

Can't seem to find warm-white LED's in my searches, OK prove me wrong on that one as well 

 

[Crossy]

21 minutes ago, Daffy D said:

OK prove me wrong on that one as well 

 

 

https://www.lazada.co.th//products/i1772496798-s5158560738.html

 

Sorry, not cheap but there are not many around.

 

We have the tri-colour ones, bright-white, warm-white, and half-half. Change colour by flipping the light switch on-off-on.