I hear that in the U.K. re pensions claw backs.

[scottiejohn]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Humor, not a fan I see 

You are neither humorous nor helpful in a serious subject I see!

[beautifulthailand99]

It isn't hard to figure who is defrauding the DWP on this thread. You will probably get away with it unless you get gobby in the bar and give it away to somebody who knows the score.

 

 

[Tiber]

3 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Well look, most of us have relatives in the UK and I for one would want to return from time to time to see my kids and grandkids.  All you have to do to gain access to any pension increases is to return to the UK from time to time and register at a relative's address.

 

I've heard it said that you have to stay 6 months to be able to do that but I'm not sure that's correct.  I heard the same information relating to accessing UK healthcare if you've been abroad.  The truth in fact, is that all you have to do is provide proof of a UK address - no 6 month requirement.

True   ,No NHS waiting period/,double charging. Just keep UK address, even  International pensions would advise that too ,if you want frozen  ,tell 'em

[Tiber]

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

It isn't hard to figure who is defrauding the DWP on this thread. You will probably get away with it unless you get gobby in the bar and give it away to somebody who knows the score.

 

 

Will do nothing, already stated DWP will not investigate  most allegations. If you can read  its None sanctionable/punishable, so what do you make of that? is your understanding somehow skewered, cannot /will not do anything, including stopping ,clawing back ,suspending.

 

  If you kindly could link your statement to what is actually law ,I would be most obliged

[beautifulthailand99]

21 minutes ago, Tiber said:

Will do nothing, already stated DWP will not investigate  most allegations. If you can read  its None sanctionable/punishable, so what do you make of that? is your understanding somehow skewered, cannot /will not do anything, including stopping ,clawing back ,suspending.

 

  If you kindly could link your statement to what is actually law ,I would be most obliged

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/report-a-change-in-your-circumstances

 

No one has addressed the issue re the new Thai taxation of remittances into the country. These thought to be apparently covered by bilateral tax arrangements, so you shouldn't pay twice if you are taxed (or are tax-free if under the limit in the UK) . However for that to apply the Thai tax authorities will need to contact the UK which will then reveal your residency, this leading to freezing of the uplift.

 

Role of Competent Authorities:

The tax authorities of the UK and Thailand work together to ensure the agreement is properly applied. They may exchange information and cooperate to prevent tax evasion and ensure the agreement's effectiveness.
Benefits:

    Encourages Trade and Investment: By providing clarity and predictability on tax matters, the DTA encourages cross-border trade and investment.

    Reduces Compliance Burden: Taxpayers do not have to navigate complex tax systems in two countries, reducing administrative burdens.

    Prevents Double Taxation: The primary goal is to ensure income is not taxed twice, which would otherwise discourage international business activities.

Consultation:

Individuals and companies with cross-border activities between the UK and Thailand should consult with tax professionals or advisors familiar with the specifics of the DTA to ensure they are compliant and taking full advantage of any benefits provided.

[MangoKorat]

44 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Please provide a link to the statute which states that what you say is actually in law WITHOUT A COURT ORDER!

In the case of personal individual/joint accounts the UK at this time!

 

 

HMRC can check your bank account

Back in July 2020, HMRC announced the creation of a new ‘financial institution notice’ to speed up the process of obtaining information about a known taxpayer’s tax position from banks and other organizations.

Instead of altering its powers for all third-party notices, HMRC will now create this new notice. Financial institution notices will not require taxpayer or tax tribunal permission, although HMRC argues there will be safeguards: the information must be fairly required.

However, it appears that HMRC can assess what is reasonably required, as notices must be approved by an ‘authorized officer’ of HMRC).

 

https://sterlinxglobal.com/non-compliant-to-uk-tax-laws/

[Tiber]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/report-a-change-in-your-circumstances

So what?   is that actually sanctionable?punishable?  go on say so,   lol

[Tiber]

11 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/report-a-change-in-your-circumstances

 

No one has addressed the issue re the new Thai taxation of remittances into the country. These thought to be apparently covered by bilateral tax arrangements, so you shouldn't pay twice if you are taxed (or are tax-free if under the limit in the UK) . However for that to apply the Thai tax authorities will need to contact the UK which will then reveal your residency, this leading to freezing of the uplift.

Nothing to do with frozen/unfrozen,thats what this thread is,  not hypothetical happening.

[beautifulthailand99]

 

 

ChatGPT

Enforcing monitoring of the frozen pension uplift for UK pensioners living in applicable countries and determining fraudulent claims involves a combination of administrative processes, data management, international cooperation, and anti-fraud measures. Here are steps the UK government's Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) can take:

Administrative Measures:

1. Data Collection: Ensure accurate and up-to-date records of all pensioners receiving the UK State Pension, including their country of residence.
2. Regular Reporting: Require pensioners to regularly report any changes in their circumstances, including changes in their residency or citizenship status.
3. Communication: Maintain clear communication channels with pensioners, informing them of their reporting responsibilities and the consequences of fraudulent claims.
4. Documentation: Require pensioners to provide necessary documentation to support their eligibility for the frozen pension uplift.
5. Verification Processes: Implement robust verification processes for pensioners, including cross-checking with other government agencies and international databases.

International Cooperation:

1. Bilateral Agreements: Collaborate with countries where UK pensioners reside to share information and verify pensioner status.
2. Data Sharing: Establish agreements for the exchange of information relevant to pensioner status and eligibility.
3. International Task Forces: Work with international organizations to create task forces dedicated to monitoring and preventing pension fraud across borders.

Anti-Fraud Measures:

1. Data Analytics: Use data analytics and AI tools to detect unusual patterns or inconsistencies in pension claims.
2. Fraud Detection Units: Establish specialized units within the DWP focused on detecting and investigating fraudulent pension claims.
3. Random Audits: Conduct random audits of pensioners to ensure compliance and detect potential fraud.
4. Whistleblower Hotline: Establish a confidential hotline where individuals can report suspected fraudulent activity related to pension claims.
5. Penalties: Implement strict penalties for those found guilty of fraudulent claims, including fines, repayment of benefits, and legal action.
6. Public Awareness Campaigns: Educate the public, including pensioners and their families, about the consequences of making fraudulent claims and the importance of honest reporting.

Technology and Automation:

1. Digital Platforms: Utilize online platforms for pensioners to report changes in circumstances and submit necessary documentation.
2. Biometric Verification: Explore biometric technologies for identity verification to prevent impersonation and identity theft.
3. Machine Learning Algorithms: Implement algorithms that can learn from historical data to identify potential fraud indicators.

Periodic Reviews:

1. Regular Assessments: Conduct regular reviews of the frozen pension policy and its implementation to identify areas for improvement.
2. Policy Adjustments: Make adjustments to the policy as needed based on the results of reviews and feedback from stakeholders.

Training and Resources:

1. Staff Training: Provide training to DWP staff involved in monitoring pension claims to enhance their ability to detect fraudulent activity.
2. Resource Allocation: Ensure adequate resources, both financial and human, are allocated to the monitoring and enforcement efforts.

Legal Framework:

1. Legislation: Strengthen legislation related to pension fraud, including increasing penalties for offenders.
2. Cross-Border Legal Cooperation: Work with international partners to facilitate legal cooperation in cases of cross-border pension fraud.

Reporting Mechanisms:

1. Transparency: Maintain transparency in the monitoring process, allowing pensioners to understand how their claims are assessed.
2. Feedback Channels: Establish feedback channels where pensioners can raise concerns or report potential issues with the process.

By combining these measures, the DWP can improve its ability to monitor the frozen pension uplift, detect fraudulent claims, and ensure that UK pensioners living abroad receive their entitlements fairly and securely.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, Tiber said:

Nothing to do with frozen/unfrozen,thats what this thread is,  not hypothetical happening.

The two things are linked in order to avoid the Thai authorities taxing your pension you will have to fill in both a Thai tax form and claim exemption under the UK double taxation agreement which will then require the Thai authorities contacting HMRC in the Uk to determine your tax situation. Bingo they then know where you live.

[Tiber]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

 

ChatGPT

Enforcing monitoring of the frozen pension uplift for UK pensioners living in applicable countries and determining fraudulent claims involves a combination of administrative processes, data management, international cooperation, and anti-fraud measures. Here are steps the UK government's Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) can take:

Administrative Measures:

1. Data Collection: Ensure accurate and up-to-date records of all pensioners receiving the UK State Pension, including their country of residence.
2. Regular Reporting: Require pensioners to regularly report any changes in their circumstances, including changes in their residency or citizenship status.
3. Communication: Maintain clear communication channels with pensioners, informing them of their reporting responsibilities and the consequences of fraudulent claims.
4. Documentation: Require pensioners to provide necessary documentation to support their eligibility for the frozen pension uplift.
5. Verification Processes: Implement robust verification processes for pensioners, including cross-checking with other government agencies and international databases.

International Cooperation:

1. Bilateral Agreements: Collaborate with countries where UK pensioners reside to share information and verify pensioner status.
2. Data Sharing: Establish agreements for the exchange of information relevant to pensioner status and eligibility.
3. International Task Forces: Work with international organizations to create task forces dedicated to monitoring and preventing pension fraud across borders.

Anti-Fraud Measures:

1. Data Analytics: Use data analytics and AI tools to detect unusual patterns or inconsistencies in pension claims.
2. Fraud Detection Units: Establish specialized units within the DWP focused on detecting and investigating fraudulent pension claims.
3. Random Audits: Conduct random audits of pensioners to ensure compliance and detect potential fraud.
4. Whistleblower Hotline: Establish a confidential hotline where individuals can report suspected fraudulent activity related to pension claims.
5. Penalties: Implement strict penalties for those found guilty of fraudulent claims, including fines, repayment of benefits, and legal action.
6. Public Awareness Campaigns: Educate the public, including pensioners and their families, about the consequences of making fraudulent claims and the importance of honest reporting.

Technology and Automation:

1. Digital Platforms: Utilize online platforms for pensioners to report changes in circumstances and submit necessary documentation.
2. Biometric Verification: Explore biometric technologies for identity verification to prevent impersonation and identity theft.
3. Machine Learning Algorithms: Implement algorithms that can learn from historical data to identify potential fraud indicators.

Periodic Reviews:

1. Regular Assessments: Conduct regular reviews of the frozen pension policy and its implementation to identify areas for improvement.
2. Policy Adjustments: Make adjustments to the policy as needed based on the results of reviews and feedback from stakeholders.

Training and Resources:

1. Staff Training: Provide training to DWP staff involved in monitoring pension claims to enhance their ability to detect fraudulent activity.
2. Resource Allocation: Ensure adequate resources, both financial and human, are allocated to the monitoring and enforcement efforts.

Legal Framework:

1. Legislation: Strengthen legislation related to pension fraud, including increasing penalties for offenders.
2. Cross-Border Legal Cooperation: Work with international partners to facilitate legal cooperation in cases of cross-border pension fraud.

Reporting Mechanisms:

1. Transparency: Maintain transparency in the monitoring process, allowing pensioners to understand how their claims are assessed.
2. Feedback Channels: Establish feedback channels where pensioners can raise concerns or report potential issues with the process.

By combining these measures, the DWP can improve its ability to monitor the frozen pension uplift, detect fraudulent claims, and ensure that UK pensioners living abroad receive their entitlements fairly and securely.

Rubbish,as stated Non-sanctionable/punishable.You sure know how to pour on rubbish

  No they cannot,not worth their time

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, Tiber said:

Rubbish,as stated Non-sanctionable/punishable.You sure know how to pour on rubbish

  No they cannot,not worth their time

As others have pointed out, the timescale for the tech to bust offenders is a few years away but the tax situation that I have highlighted looks like it could potentially impact much earlier. I'm not up on that process so maybe others can advise.

[scottiejohn]

15 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

HMRC can check your bank account

Back in July 2020, HMRC announced the creation of a new ‘financial institution notice’ to speed up the process of obtaining information about a known taxpayer’s tax position from banks and other organizations.

Instead of altering its powers for all third-party notices, HMRC will now create this new notice. Financial institution notices will not require taxpayer or tax tribunal permission, although HMRC argues there will be safeguards: the information must be fairly required.

However, it appears that HMRC can assess what is reasonably required, as notices must be approved by an ‘authorized officer’ of HMRC).

 

https://sterlinxglobal.com/non-compliant-to-uk-tax-laws/

Please note that this article is dated 4 Aug 2023 and is talking about intentions and NOT current law as I have discussed above!

I repeat my point about a pending general election!

If it were to become law then I suggest that first you look at the status/legality of the link and secondly take from that link this very important point;

• HMRC cannot issue a third-party notice without the permission of the taxpayer or the tax tribunal. However, HMRC must demonstrate that the information sought is “reasonably required and will help the investigation in one way or another.

  Conclusion

A notice from HMRC will have to be approved by a tax tribunal, an independent body that is responsible for any appeals against HMRC.

In plain English the inspector needs an order to get information!

He cannot just access a bank account without authorisation!

[Tiber]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

As others have pointed out, the timescale for the tech to bust offenders is a few years away but the tax situation that I have highlighted looks like it could potentially impact much earlier. I'm not up on that process so maybe others can advise.

Bragging on an open forum about committing pension fraud isn't as clever as you think it is.

 

Defrauding the UK state pension, or engaging in pension fraud, is considered a serious offense. The penalties for such fraudulent activities can include both criminal and civil consequences. As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, here are potential penalties for defrauding the UK state pension:

1. Criminal Charges: Individuals involved in defrauding the state pension may face criminal charges. If convicted, they could be subject to fines and imprisonment. The severity of the penalties may depend on the nature and extent of the fraud.

2. Civil Penalties: The UK government has mechanisms in place to impose civil penalties for pension fraud. The Pensions Regulator has the authority to take action against individuals or organizations that breach pension law. Civil penalties may involve financial sanctions.

3. Repayment of Illegally Obtained Benefits: Individuals found guilty of pension fraud may be required to repay any state pension benefits obtained through fraudulent means. This could include a requirement to return the funds received improperly.

It's important to note that laws and penalties can change, and new developments may have occurred since my last update in January 2022. If you have concerns or suspicions about pension fraud, it is advisable to report them to the relevant authorities. In the UK, this may include reporting the matter to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or other law enforcement agencies.

 

It was you that posted this rubbish in other thread "  Defrauding the UK state pension, or engaging in pension fraud, is considered a serious offense."   erm no,no offence   so where does this leave you?  go on tell

 

 

[Tropicalevo]

6 hours ago, proton said:

 

Never been with a Thai prostitute, parked in a disabled space, bought booze out of hours, used illegal drugs or watched iplayer without a license ? You must be a saint.

I am not a saint. I failed on #3.

What is iplayer? (I do not have a TV.)

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, proton said:

 

Never been with a Thai prostitute, parked in a disabled space, bought booze out of hours, used illegal drugs or watched iplayer without a license ? You must be a saint.

I was able to park in the disabled spaces the past 4 months legally. I can now only park in the kids or old folks spaces.

[BritManToo]

53 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The two things are linked in order to avoid the Thai authorities taxing your pension you will have to fill in both a Thai tax form and claim exemption under the UK double taxation agreement which will then require the Thai authorities contacting HMRC in the Uk to determine your tax situation. Bingo they then know where you live.

Thailand taxing retired expats will never happen!

[Tiber]

1 minute ago, Celsius said:

 

Revokation or passport refusal during renewal has nothing to do with losing citizenship. IRS does this all the time.

 

Anyhoo, since the amounts are probably small the most obvious course of action will be a deal with hmrc taking the cut from the pension until the debt (including penalties and interest) is paid off.

Do you not read past quotes "taking the cut from his pension" is not possible, if of course you could point out any error of mine, please do not hesitate to inform

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Please note that this article is dated 4 Aug 2023 and is talking about intentions and NOT current law as I have discussed above!

I repeat my point about a pending general election!

If it were to become law then I suggest that first you look at the status/legality of the link and secondly take from that link this very important point;

• HMRC cannot issue a third-party notice without the permission of the taxpayer or the tax tribunal. However, HMRC must demonstrate that the information sought is “reasonably required and will help the investigation in one way or another.

  Conclusion

A notice from HMRC will have to be approved by a tax tribunal, an independent body that is responsible for any appeals against HMRC.

In plain English the inspector needs an order to get information!

He cannot just access a bank account without authorisation!

I agree that the article is from August 2023 but where does it say its regarding a pending change to the rules. Seriously, if this company are trying to make it look like a rule when its not in order to obtain more business, I will take it up with them.

 

My apologies, I had not seen the 'Conclusion' the text of which is completely at odds with what is stated in the other sections which state:

 

'Financial institution notices will not require taxpayer or tax tribunal permission, although HMRC argues there will be safeguards: the information must be fairly required.'

 

and:

 

'However, it appears that HMRC can assess what is reasonably required, as notices must be approved by an ‘authorized officer’ of HMRC)'

[champers]

9 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

https://www.youtube.com/c/FabulousPattaya?app=desktop

 

There is indeed a story on this at the link above.

AN often post these vids in Pattaya News forum.

[Georgealbert]

7 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

And the chances of being passed by this government are zero IMO!

Hint! a general election!

Yes agree, and I would like to see a general election as soon as possible.

 

But the government appear to think, they can promote this bill as something they can boost about.

There are 203 amendments listed for the committee stage in the Lords, and most seem very minor changes, but no timetable for the committee is scheduled yet.

 

If the third reading in the Lords is completed, there seems to be little serious opposition in the commons to passing it into law. The SNP seems to be the only party wanting to show their opposition the bill.

 

Commons third reading vote.

[Liquorice]

9 hours ago, Tiber said:

If you can read  its None sanctionable/punishable, so what do you make of that? is your understanding somehow skewered, cannot /will not do anything, including stopping ,clawing back ,suspending.

Can you provide a link to substantiate your claim and the law.

[Mike Lister]

7 hours ago, Tiber said:

Do you not read past quotes "taking the cut from his pension" is not possible, if of course you could point out any error of mine, please do not hesitate to inform

If you watch/listen to the video on the first page of the thread, you will hear that fines can be levied and the pension diverted to pay those fines, if the payee is found guilty of a related crime. If correct, and I've no reason to believe it is not, that means the pension is never suspended and no claw back is made, only that fines are paid. The effect is the same but one approach means the payments never stop.

[Mike Lister]

I've removed three posts from the same poster that violate two forum rules, numbers 9 and 10. Because this is a potentially emotive subject for some and because some posters are new, warnings are avoided on this occasion only.

 

The forum rules are linked blow, please read them and abide by them.

 

https://aseannow.com/forum_rules/

 

I've now removed more posts but this time, from seasoned posters, for the same reasons as the above. I strongly suggest everyone start to pay attention to the rules because there will be no more gentle and polite warnings for anyone.

[Georgealbert]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

If you watch/listen to the video on the first page of the thread, you will hear that fines can be levied and the pension diverted to pay those fines, if the payee is found guilty of a related crime. If correct, and I've no reason to believe it is not, that means the pension is never suspended and no claw back is made, only that fines are paid. The effect is the same but one approach means the payments never stop.

UK government website states that state pension cannot be reduced or stopped even if you commit benefit fraud. The issue may arise if you are receiving other benefits, additional to the state pension, all benefit types are listed in link below.
 

My reading of the link, leads me to believe that state pension payments can not diverted to even pay a fine, under the current law. Can not find anything in the new bill that seems to change this.

 

Happy to hear and see any link, from official sites, that says differently.

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud#:~:text=If you've committed or,may be reduced or stopped

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

UK government website states that state pension cannot be reduced or stopped even if you commit benefit fraud. The issue may arise if you are receiving other benefits, additional to the state pension, all benefit types are listed in link below.
 

My reading of the link, leads me to believe that state pension payments can not diverted to even pay a fine, under the current law. Can not find anything in the new bill that seems to change this.

 

Happy to hear and see any link, from official sites, that says differently.

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud#:~:text=If you've committed or,may be reduced or stopped

I don't see anything in that link that says benefits which cannot be reduced or stopped, cannot be diverted to pay a fine Are you aware of such a ruling or is that a case that English law takes precedent over benefits rules? Simple common sense alone tells me there must be some form of enforceable ruling somewhere that prevents state pension recipients from living overseas and claiming an increase they are not entitled to, otherwise, everyone would do it. 

 

 

Losing benefits if you’re convicted of benefit fraud

Your benefits can be reduced or stopped for up to 3 years if you’re convicted of benefit fraud. The amount of time they’re stopped for depends on how many times you’ve committed fraud.

Only certain benefits can be reduced or stopped. These are called ‘sanctionable benefits’. But if you commit fraud on a benefit that cannot be reduced or stopped, your other benefits can be reduced instead.

[Georgealbert]

 

I stand with my comment, the state pension can not be stopped or reduced. I take that to mean for anything, including a fine.Yes I agree other benefits can be stopped or reduced.

 

Even your quoted section supports my view,  “But if you commit fraud on a benefit that cannot be reduced or stopped, your other benefits can be reduced instead.”

 

Whether a court could direct automatic payments, I have no idea, but I can find no case history of a court ordering an automatic payments from a state pension, for a fraud fine.

 

i can also see no reason why the UK government lists the different types of benefits that can and can not be reduced, if they could just take payments for a fine from all.

 

Under the section of the link you posted, are 3 lists, Sanctionable benefits, Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped, Exceptions.

 

You may read it differently, but I read this as the state pension is untouchable 

[Georgealbert]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

I don't see anything in that link that says benefits which cannot be reduced or stopped, cannot be diverted to pay a fine Are you aware of such a ruling or is that a case that English law takes precedent over benefits rules? Simple common sense alone tells me there must be some form of enforceable ruling somewhere that prevents state pension recipients from living overseas and claiming an increase they are not entitled to, otherwise, everyone would do it. 

 

 

Losing benefits if you’re convicted of benefit fraud

Your benefits can be reduced or stopped for up to 3 years if you’re convicted of benefit fraud. The amount of time they’re stopped for depends on how many times you’ve committed fraud.

Only certain benefits can be reduced or stopped. These are called ‘sanctionable benefits’. But if you commit fraud on a benefit that cannot be reduced or stopped, your other benefits can be reduced instead.

Sorry missed the quote in my reply to you above.

[Mike Lister]

53 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

 

I stand with my comment, the state pension can not be stopped or reduced. I take that to mean for anything, including a fine.Yes I agree other benefits can be stopped or reduced.

 

Even your quoted section supports my view,  “But if you commit fraud on a benefit that cannot be reduced or stopped, your other benefits can be reduced instead.”

 

Whether a court could direct automatic payments, I have no idea, but I can find no case history of a court ordering an automatic payments from a state pension, for a fraud fine.

 

i can also see no reason why the UK government lists the different types of benefits that can and can not be reduced, if they could just take payments for a fine from all.

 

Under the section of the link you posted, are 3 lists, Sanctionable benefits, Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped, Exceptions.

 

You may read it differently, but I read this as the state pension is untouchable 

We can agree to disagree, that would be ok. I suspect it would take a UK lawyer, government minister or DWP official to conclude this matter without doubt.

[transam]

16 hours ago, Tiber said:

You love this subject, must be hurting after all these years frozen. 

                                                                                                          There is no punishment for being unfrozen in a frozen land,none,nada,period     That sums it up, no mythical dreamed up "Ive heard this " rubbish/garbage

 

    Cannot/will not change, keep those unfrozen pensions pouring forth       Of course you could quote any punishment fothcoming,implemented ,but somehow I think Ill be awaiting a long long time,probably forever😂

 

       Enjoy the 8.5% rise    £11500 or something like,tasty     Cheerio  lol

I gave you a laugh, because your post did make me laugh........😂

 

I feel sorry for you that you have to dribble on here over the extra pension payment to keep you afloat, if you had plenty you wouldn't risk fiddling Gov cash. 

 

But, once a fiddler, always a fiddler, eh, correct.......?   🤭