Kick backs for condo renovations

[samtam]

I suppose I am being totally naive, and should not have expected any thing less. As a committee member for our condo, which is managed by one of the so-called top building management companies, I was rather taken aback today when I was informed by one of our contractors that he was asked for a payment to the building manager for a contract awarded by the board. He also showed me proof that the subcontractor carrying out the renovation was asked for a similar bribe. For another simultaneous project by the same contractor and another subcontractor, they have to pay a fee to some/several (as yet undefined) of our management or juristic team to have the quality control approved.

 

As it's Thailand, it is possible that this practice is the norm, and I should turn a blind eye to it. It does however absolutely disgust me, knowing what potential adverse impact there might be on the quality of the work, aswell as the ultimate cost to owners. It also goes against the very fibre of my being. The contractor whistleblower is not Thai, so he obviously felt comfortable telling me of his experience, otherwise I would doubtless never have heard about it.

 

Anyone have any experience of this, and advice. Is it just "When in Rome..."?

[OneMoreFarang]

I am also not surprised.

 

I think one thing you should do, before you consider further steps, is to try to find out who is involved.

Is it only the management? Or are there also committee members, and maybe the head of the committee, involved?

Just in case you think you talk with the committee about this, assuming you will only get support.

 

 

[samtam]

I think I can be certain, (if that isn't a contradictory way of putting it), that it does not involve any other committee members. I will be speaking to them privately. 

[couchpotato]

As it is not costing the Condo tenants any extra money, then personally I would just leave well enough alone. if you go to the Committee with this, and it turns out one or more of them is in on it, then you are just opening a can of worms. Incidentally most contractors are familiar with this type of "extras" so just leave it alone.

[samtam]

7 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

As it is not costing the Condo tenants any extra money, then personally I would just leave well enough alone. if you go to the Committee with this, and it turns out one or more of them is in on it, then you are just opening a can of worms. Incidentally most contractors are familiar with this type of "extras" so just leave it alone.

 

I hear what you are saying about leaving well alone, but the contractor's bribe comes from somewhere, and I think it's pretty adjacent to the contract fee.

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

As it is not costing the Condo tenants any extra money

Obviously, at the end the co-owners pay that money, the bribes.

It might be difficult to rectify the situation, but it is not that it is a victimless crime. 

[couchpotato]

3 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I hear what you are saying about leaving well alone, but the contractor's bribe comes from somewhere, and I think it's pretty adjacent to the contract fee.

Looks like you are going to pursue it anyway. Remember you are butting heads with a management company staffed by Thai's...These things never turn out well and have turned ugly in many Condos (and Villages) over the years. Good luck (you'll need it).

[samtam]

2 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Looks like you are going to pursue it anyway. Remember you are butting heads with a management company staffed by Thai's...These things never turn out well and have turned ugly in many Condos (and Villages) over the years. Good luck (you'll need it).

 

You're assuming too much right now. I wanted to hear a few opinions, and yours is certainly helpful. I am aware it is how the country runs, but there are obviously specific circumstances which I have chosen not to disclose, such as the history with the management company etc.

[samtam]

Certainly when I bought my condo here 20 years ago and was renovating it for the first time, my contractor told me that he was asked to pay THB5K a piece for three metal balcony drain covers. I was surprised then, but he paid him, or rather I did. (A similar drain cover today costs around THB100 a piece.)

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Looks like you are going to pursue it anyway. Remember you are butting heads with a management company staffed by Thai's...These things never turn out well and have turned ugly in many Condos (and Villages) over the years. Good luck (you'll need it).

 

I think it's a good idea to collect evidence and keep the evidence.

If "he" uses the evidence against that person, that is another question.

Maybe it is also good that the (bad part of the) management know that he knows. That will possibly help to negotiate if there are any other issues.

 

I think the problem with situations like that is, that (in general) we farangs don't have a clear understanding of the levels of corruption and what is normal and what we should expect. It's like going to the police and complaining about late closing hours. It wouldn't happen if the authorities wouldn't let it happen. So, whatever is going on in above condominium, or any other business, might not be easy for us to understand. After all, TiT. 

[samtam]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

I think it's a good idea to collect evidence and keep the evidence.

If "he" uses the evidence against that person, that is another question.

Maybe it is also good that the (bad part of the) management know that he knows. That will possibly help to negotiate if there are any other issues.

 

I think the problem with situations like that is, that (in general) we farangs don't have a clear understanding of the levels of corruption and what is normal and what we should expect. It's like going to the police and complaining about late closing hours. It wouldn't happen if the authorities wouldn't let it happen. So, whatever is going on in above condominium, or any other business, might not be easy for us to understand. After all, TiT. 

 

The dish best served cold.

[8OA8]

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, however having been in a condo Line group for a number of years, I can say that it seems there's no holding back when the option to sue for defamation arises from any accusations made against the committee members or employees of the management company. 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

23 hours ago, samtam said:

I was rather taken aback

 

23 hours ago, samtam said:

It does however absolutely disgust me, knowing what potential adverse impact there might be on the quality of the work, aswell as the ultimate cost to owners. It also goes against the very fibre of my being.

 

That's because you come from a civilised part of the world where people do the work they are paid to do, and usually do it well, with no extras added on. Different culture. We all have to live with the Thai version.

[TheFishman1]

Corruption, in all sectors of Thailand, CIT

[scubascuba3]

The answer is in some condos there is corruption in others there isn't. I wouldn't just play along, talk to other farang committee members. As a condo owner i wouldn't be happy paying for bribes and other frauds

[Mark Nothing]

In my building it was a group of foreign owners volunteering on the committee getting the renovation kickbacks.  

 

The way they handled those too curious was to sue them in court using condo funds and making false accusations.  They were eventually outed but it bought them several years time, made the whistleblowers appear guilty and they successfully extracted the kickbacks from the renovation budget.

 

The scam was simple.  They got multiple bids for work and chose the lowest of the wildly inflated bids.  You are on very thin ice.  

 

 

[CanadaSam]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:55 PM, samtam said:

knowing what potential adverse impact there might be on the quality of the work

 

This would trouble me a lot more than the extra amount to be paid for the "bribes". 

 

As you seem to be "friends" with the contractor, I would simply ask him if these bribes affect the quality of the work, and if no, then I would not worry too much about the amount (which will be distributed amongst all the condo owners).

[bbi1]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:55 PM, samtam said:

Anyone have any experience of this, and advice. Is it just "When in Rome..."?

No, never had any experience with this. Just another reason to add to the list as to why to never own any property in Thailand. As I've always said, only idiots own property here, if you are a foreigner. Own property in your own country or other stable countries.