Income vs Bank Deposit - Retired and Married.

[MangoKorat]

I will be moving to Thailand later this year and will hopefully be applying for a Non Imm B visa and Work Permit.  However, I've just been advised that I may have to have an operation which could result in a fairly long recovery period.  I may have to delay my business plans but I won't be delaying my move - I can just as easily recover in Thailand as I can in the UK.

 

With that in mind, I may go for a retirement visa or a 12 month extension based on retirement for the first year as I'm over 50 but single. I'm aware that the extension would require 800,000 baht being deposited in a Thai bank account for a set time before and after the application + that 400,000 (I believe) has to stay in the account at all other times.  Not too worried about the exact details on that because I prefer to use the income method which I believe means that I have to show an income from abroad of 65,000 per month entering a Thai bank account?

 

So a few questions on that:

 

I'm pretty sure that I've read that some offices don't like the income method and make it difficult or even impossible. Is this true? My local office is Korat.

 

I'm not old enough for a state pension yet and my income would be from properties that I let out - is this acceptable?

 

Does the income have to be from one source of can it be a mixture - as long as its shown entering my Thai account from abroad?

 

Is proof of that income required - I mean the source or once again - is the fact that its transferred in from abroad enough?

 

I have a mate who's probably going to make the move a couple of months before me, he's married to a Thai and retiring a few years early but like me, doesn't want to tie 800,000 up in a Thai bank account.  I believe that he can obtain a Non O based on marriage and then extend that for 12 months with either 400,000 in the bank or have an income of 40,000 baht per month. He won't be working in Thailand so his income method will be money from abroad.

 

Similar to above - is the income method accepted at all offices?

 

What is accepted as proof of that income?  Just the transfer itself?

[DrJack54]

So you are UK.

Your embassy does not provide income letter. 

You will need to use funds in the bank method for first extension based on retirement. 

Even if you could show 12 months of 65k transfers....that would be dubious as in your case the income is from investments rather than pensions. 

 

Regarding your friend....for marriage he can use money in the bank 400k.

It only needs to be in bank for 2 months prior to extension and under consideration period.

Then can be used/withdrawn as he wishes. 

Sweet deal. 

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Even if you could show 12 months of 65k transfers....that would be dubious as in your case the income is from investments rather than pensions. 

Its going back a while but I'm pretty sure that I remember Ubonjoe providing the actual rule on that where it was stated that the income didn't need to be from a pension.

 

Many years ago, I took the decision that rather than pay for a private pension, I was better off investing in property to provide additional income when I retired.  Given the performance of UK private pensions in recent years, I think I made the correct decision.

 

Even if the income was from a private pension, from what I've seen, it would be unlikely to state 'Pension' when it arrived in my Thai bank account. Everything I transfer from the UK at the moment simply states 'Trade Finance Deposit'.

 

Do we know what evidence they require as to the source?

[DrJack54]

47 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Even if the income was from a private pension, from what I've seen, it would be unlikely to state 'Pension' when it arrived in my Thai bank account. Everything I transfer from the UK at the moment simply states 'Trade Finance Deposit'.

 

Do we know what evidence they require as to the

I have read reports that basically state that their immigration office just wanted to see bank statements that the 65k came per month on a consistent date. That's it.

Also read many where immigration office insisted on back up info .

I can understand that immigration can claim rental income is not a guarantee source of income. 

 

In my case just by example (not a brag) .

I have several rental properties and super fund (shares) ...I wanted to change to income method. 

So I changed my super fund set up to monthly income. 

Didn't need it but was done to be able to show immigration. 

 

In ironic twist have decided to used agent ongoing for extensions 

[DrJoy]

28 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

have decided to used agent ongoing for extensions

How much does your agent charge for the extension?

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

How much does your agent charge for the extension?

Baiting  question ? 

Cost of agents for extensions based on retirement is an old chestnut and disclosed in many threads.

Point of your question? 

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I have read reports that basically state that their immigration office just wanted to see bank statements that the 65k came per month on a consistent date. That's it.

I guess the only way is to go and have a word with Korat Immigration and ask them what they want.  I'd rather leave my cash in a UK bank where its protected against bank failure.  I'm also concerned that any savings transferred into Thailand will be considered as Assessable Income and liable for tax even though its been assessed and probaby taxed in the UK.

 

The situation with these new tax rules is a little confusing at the moment but as I understand it, if I was to transfer 800,000 to my Thai account, it would be assessable for tax.  As, in essence I can't use it, I would also have to transfer cash in each month for living expenses, which would also be assessable. I am aware that there are allowances but say I transfer 40,000 in each month my assessable income for that first year would be 1,280,000 baht less allowances. Transferring 65,000 (income route) in each month would mean an asessable income of 780,000 less allowances - tax would still be due but far less.  I'm already pretty p'd off at the likelihood of paying tax on income I've already been taxed on in the UK.

 

Korat can be difficult on some things, personally I've not had a problem with them but I do know people who have and once you get on the wrong side of them, they seem to remember you forever. I'd rather get things squared away before I apply for an extension.

 

I've just come off the phone with my mate where we discussed his options again. He's not at all happy with transfering 400,000 into Thailand even if it is only for a couple of months - as he says, he'll have to make sure its available again for the next extension. He would rather use the income route and I've told him to do the same as I'm going to - go and see his local office which I believe will be Khon Kaen and find out what they will accept.

[Liquorice]

5 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

With that in mind, I may go for a retirement visa or a 12 month extension based on retirement for the first year as I'm over 50 but single.

The only visa that allows you to stay in Thailand for 12 months is the Non Immigrant 0-A visa.
Requirements listed here; https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/page/retirement-visa

 

5 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

So a few questions on that:

 

I'm pretty sure that I've read that some offices don't like the income method and make it difficult or even impossible. Is this true? My local office is Korat.

 

I'm not old enough for a state pension yet and my income would be from properties that I let out - is this acceptable?

 

Does the income have to be from one source of can it be a mixture - as long as its shown entering my Thai account from abroad?

 

Is proof of that income required - I mean the source or once again - is the fact that its transferred in from abroad enough?

Your plan to use the income method for a 1-year extension of stay, is thwarted by the fact Immigration require 12 x 65,000K THB overseas transfers into a Thai bank account and request proof of the source of income, such as a pension statement. 

 

5 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

I have a mate who's probably going to make the move a couple of months before me, he's married to a Thai and retiring a few years early but like me, doesn't want to tie 800,000 up in a Thai bank account.  I believe that he can obtain a Non O based on marriage and then extend that for 12 months with either 400,000 in the bank or have an income of 40,000 baht per month. He won't be working in Thailand so his income method will be money from abroad.

Correct, your friend could first apply for the Non Imm O visa based on Thai spouse, which grants a stay of 90 days, then apply to extend that 90 day stay for a further year based on Thai spouse (you don't and cannot extend a visa.) The financial requirements are different based on Thai spouse, but again if he wanted to use the income method, he would require 12 x 40K THB overseas transfers into a Thai bank account in his sole name.

 

Have a look at this Immigration order for 1 year extension requirements based on using the Income method.
It lists the financial options and requirements both based on Thai spouse/family, section 2.18, then scroll down for the options and requirements based on retirement, section 2.22

Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 

Note that the option of the Income certification certified by the embassy is not available for UK, USA and Australian nationals.

[Liquorice]

If using the funds in the bank method, for annual extensions based on retirement it's 800K THB deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of submitting the application, maintained for 3 months after the extension is granted. You may then withdraw up to 400K THB, but must maintain a minimum balance of 400K in the account.
Repeat for the following extension application.

35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf 

 

In the case of your friend (assuming he married in Thailand) for annual extensions based on Thai spouse, the fund's requirement are different.
He would need to deposit 400K THB in a Thai bank account in his sole name for 2 months prior to the date of application and whilst awaiting approval, at which point he can withdraw the full amount if he so desires. Repeat for the following year's extension.
327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdf 

Scroll down to section 2.18

[OldmanJ]

I maybe wrong but I seem to remember that the income method was canceled some 2+ years ago for Australians,UK and Americans.Best bet is to ask at the relevant embassies or immigration.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, OldmanJ said:

I maybe wrong but I seem to remember that the income method was canceled some 2+ years ago for Australians,UK and Americans.Best bet is to ask at the relevant embassies or immigration.

Citizens of those countries no longer can obtain "income letter" from their embassies however can still use income method by showing 12 monthly deposits of 65k+

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, OldmanJ said:

I maybe wrong but I seem to remember that the income method was canceled some 2+ years ago for Australians,UK and Americans.Best bet is to ask at the relevant embassies or immigration.

It was the end of 2018, beginning of 2019, the UK, US and Australian Embassies ceased issuing Income letters.

Immigration were forced to issue a new order allowing those using the Income method to now provide evidence by way of monthly overseas transfer to a Thai commercial bank as also acceptable.

Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 

 

Certain nationalities may still provide proof of income via an Embassy Income letter, whilst others have to provide Thai bank statements as proof of the overseas transfer.