Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[Cebudude]

so thailand is taxing now all worldwide income and is forcing everybody to file tax return!

why in hell would anybody keep staying in thailand and not moving away e.g. to philipined where its still 100% taxfree and you dont need to file any tax return and you dont even have a tax number

I dont understand that why I would to to thailand now  or would stay in thailand after that desaster!

 

[topt]

8 minutes ago, Cebudude said:

so thailand is taxing now all worldwide income

No they are not. 

The current DG of the TRD suggested that they are looking at it which is a long way from implementation.......

 

 

Did you join just to post incorrect information.............

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Cebudude said:

so thailand is taxing now all worldwide income

As @topt said, no they are not.

3 hours ago, Cebudude said:

and is forcing everybody to file tax return!

No they are not, there is no change.

3 hours ago, Cebudude said:

not moving away e.g. to philipined

That must be a new country, however it may be as disgustingly polluted as the Philippines, a country that exports the vast majority of its highly educated workers.

[Presnock]

13 hours ago, Cebudude said:

so thailand is taxing now all worldwide income and is forcing everybody to file tax return!

why in hell would anybody keep staying in thailand and not moving away e.g. to philipined where its still 100% taxfree and you dont need to file any tax return and you dont even have a tax number

I dont understand that why I would to to thailand now  or would stay in thailand after that desaster!

 

Thailand has not reported approval of the worldwide income taxation scheme yet!  We are only in the first phase of remittances taxed maybe!

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, Cebudude said:

so thailand is taxing now all worldwide income and is forcing everybody to file tax return!

why in hell would anybody keep staying in thailand and not moving away e.g. to philipined where its still 100% taxfree and you dont need to file any tax return and you dont even have a tax number

I dont understand that why I would to to thailand now  or would stay in thailand after that desaster!

 

o

 

4 hours ago, Presnock said:

Thailand has not reported approval of the worldwide income taxation scheme yet!  We are only in the first phase of remittances taxed maybe!

if coming to  Thailand, and don't want to be taxed on income then stay in the country no more than 179 days as in that case you would not be a tax resident in Thailand.

[Eudaimonia]

I'd like to propose a change based on new PwC guidance that is also in line with Baker McKenzie's earlier information. Tax residency in the year of remittance is irrelevant, it's the earning year that counts.

 

From:
80) Income that was earned and remitted in a year when a person was a Thai tax resident is assessable under Thai tax rules. There is now a growing body of opinion from TRD sources to suggest that overseas income earned whilst Thai tax resident but remitted to Thailand whilst not, is free of Thai tax but this remains uncertain. Some care should be exercised before considering this option, readers may wish to obtain professional tax advice to confirm this point, before using this approach. 

 

To:
80) Income that was earned when a person was a Thai tax resident (in 2024 or later) is assessable under Thai tax rules regardless of tax residency status in the year of remittance. Overseas income that was earned when a person was not a Thai tax resident will likely not be assessable even when remitted later while they are a tax resident. Some care should be exercised before considering this option: readers may wish to obtain professional tax advice to confirm this point before using this approach.

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/significant-developments

 

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Eudaimonia said:

I'd like to propose a change based on new PwC guidance that is also in line with Baker McKenzie's earlier information. Tax residency in the year of remittance is irrelevant, it's the earning year that counts.

 

From:
80) Income that was earned and remitted in a year when a person was a Thai tax resident is assessable under Thai tax rules. There is now a growing body of opinion from TRD sources to suggest that overseas income earned whilst Thai tax resident but remitted to Thailand whilst not, is free of Thai tax but this remains uncertain. Some care should be exercised before considering this option, readers may wish to obtain professional tax advice to confirm this point, before using this approach. 

 

To:
80) Income that was earned when a person was a Thai tax resident (in 2024 or later) is assessable under Thai tax rules regardless of tax residency status in the year of remittance. Overseas income that was earned when a person was not a Thai tax resident will likely not be assessable even when remitted later while they are a tax resident. Some care should be exercised before considering this option: readers may wish to obtain professional tax advice to confirm this point before using this approach.

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/significant-developments

 

You raise a good point. The last issue of that guide is dated 1 June and there have been no updates since. The author, Mike Lister, last posted on 20 July, almost three months ago and nobody seems to know if/when he will return.

 

The update you mention certainly needs to be made, as I suspect do several others. Perhaps Mods/Admin can either, a) update the guide and repost, b) advise that ML will do so at some future date or c) if the guide has served its purpose and can now be unpinned? FAO @Captain Flack

 

 

 

, 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

You raise a good point. The last issue of that guide is dated 1 June and there have been no updates since. The author, Mike Lister, last posted on 20 July, almost three months ago and nobody seems to know if/when he will return.

 

The update you mention certainly needs to be made, as I suspect do several others. Perhaps Mods/Admin can either, a) update the guide and repost, b) advise that ML will do so at some future date or c) if the guide has served its purpose and can now be unpinned? FAO @Captain Flack

 

 

 

, 

Well it doesn't look like anything will be published anytime soon - guess we need to wait until next month or December of the new tax forms or January next year or 2050 or later when they finish discussing what ever it is they are debating or which ever government happens to be in power sometime.

[Presnock]

30 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Well it doesn't look like anything will be published anytime soon - guess we need to wait until next month or December of the new tax forms or January next year or 2050 or later when they finish discussing what ever it is they are debating or which ever government happens to be in power sometime.

Chiang Mai:  Read the Thai Examiner article dated 15 October 2024: says duirng the 1st three months of 2025 ALL adults in Thailand will be required to file the tax form PND91.  The deputy Finance Minister says that the govt is aiming to bring in expats or foreign residents inThailand into the system. Says that ALL foreign residents in 2025 will be required to file a tax form.  Says that the finance ministry and Revenue dept have been working on this and that it is an URGENT plan as Thailand is already classified as an ageing society.  AM sure this will wake up some folks, and wonder why the AN note was so much tamer and nothing about expats except to say not to worry?

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Chiang Mai:  Read the Thai Examiner article dated 15 October 2024: says duirng the 1st three months of 2025 ALL adults in Thailand will be required to file the tax form PND91.  The deputy Finance Minister says that the govt is aiming to bring in expats or foreign residents inThailand into the system. Says that ALL foreign residents in 2025 will be required to file a tax form.  Says that the finance ministry and Revenue dept have been working on this and that it is an URGENT plan as Thailand is already classified as an ageing society.  AM sure this will wake up some folks, and wonder why the AN note was so much tamer and nothing about expats except to say not to worry?

It's only a proposal at this stage, there is nothing definite, despite the wording of the article.

 

Changes to the tax system of this magnitude require laws to be debated and passed, it can't be done at the drop of a hat.

[Presnock]

41 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

It's only a proposal at this stage, there is nothing definite, despite the wording of the article.

 

Changes to the tax system of this magnitude require laws to be debated and passed, it can't be done at the drop of a hat.

I agree it will take some time but previously we were told this would be several years down the road, this from the dep Finance Minister says it is URGENT that they do this now.  ANyway, this govt may not even be here in the short run.  In any case, I am not concerned.  Unless they do change all the laws and rope me in too, then I will just share my time with the PI, VN and here.  

 

[chiang mai]

Nobody's tax position changes as a result of NIT, it doesn't mean foreigners will pay more.

[Unamerican]

On 10/9/2024 at 6:13 PM, Unamerican said:

This is exttememly difficult for normal British tax-payers since they never have to fill up any tax forms or pay anything: it is all worked out by the Inland Revenue and collected via the PAYE system directly from all the income providers.

Yes, this is an extremely important point to make!

This is all totally foreign to us and so we need carefully considered advice that is NOT from the USA or other places where taxes must be filed by each individual every year! 

[topt]

5 hours ago, Unamerican said:

Yes, this is an extremely important point to make!

This is all totally foreign to us and so we need carefully considered advice that is NOT from the USA or other places where taxes must be filed by each individual every year! 

Replying to your own posts......one has to wonder why 

 

I pay taxes to the UK and have had to file for many years as do many others who have commented here. So not foreign at all to many.

 

Being kind you don't appear to have followed much of the extensive discussions which have been ongoing for more than a year..........

[Agusts]

How do they establish money was earned before 1/1/2024...?

 

I have a saving bank account of say £10k, this has accumulated interest added over 20 years, now say in 2025 I transfer 1k from this account to Thailand. How would we establish what part of this money was earned after 1/1/2024 and what part was before.... (I know it's a small part due to low interest rate etc. but as an example). I don't understand this because many people earn and save over the years, then transfer from their accumulated saving....!? 

 

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Agusts said:

How do they establish money was earned before 1/1/2024...?

 

I have a saving bank account of say £10k, this has accumulated interest added over 20 years, now say in 2025 I transfer 1k from this account to Thailand. How would we establish what part of this money was earned after 1/1/2024 and what part was before.... (I know it's a small part due to low interest rate etc. but as an example). I don't understand this because many people earn and save over the years, then transfer from their accumulated saving....!? 

 

Statement balances

[Agusts]

22 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Statement balances

 

My point is how do they separate £1 from another. I could say this £1 I'm transferring was interest I received in 2014, the £1 I received for interest of 2024 is the other one I left it in my bank account...!!!! 

 

It's quite impractical to try to identify and isolate this "earned" date on long held accounts..., even 5 or 10 year from now, I could still say it was my salary I added to my saving account in 2014...!? 

[chiang mai]

36 minutes ago, Agusts said:

 

My point is how do they separate £1 from another. I could say this £1 I'm transferring was interest I received in 2014, the £1 I received for interest of 2024 is the other one I left it in my bank account...!!!! 

 

It's quite impractical to try to identify and isolate this "earned" date on long held accounts..., even 5 or 10 year from now, I could still say it was my salary I added to my saving account in 2014...!? 

It doesn't matter which year it was earned prior to 31/12/23, only that it was all earned prior to that date.

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, Agusts said:

 

My point is how do they separate £1 from another. I could say this £1 I'm transferring was interest I received in 2014, the £1 I received for interest of 2024 is the other one I left it in my bank account...!!!! 

 

It's quite impractical to try to identify and isolate this "earned" date on long held accounts..., even 5 or 10 year from now, I could still say it was my salary I added to my saving account in 2014...!? 

It was easy to separate. I opened a new acct online in Jan to put my 2024 income. I left 2023 income in my old acct. I opened a new acct to put my US Social Security. Then, I got my LTR-WP visa in May. I transferred only SS money so far this year, so I think I'm pretty safe. I know it's a pain, but better to be safe until we know all the rules.

[Presnock]

For those who are unsure as to the 2024 taxation scheme:  "expattaxesthailand.com" has some current webinars this week - one on the 2024 taxation scheme in which the speaker says that one should be aware of their country DTA about what is assessable income in Thailand because if one doesn't have assessable income then one cannot get a Thai Tax ID number (normally) nor is one required to file the tax form.  He goes into some detail about what is assessable income for those unsure,.  Their web site has "frequently asked questions" about all the taxes.  In addition he specifically says that ATM and credit card use in Thailand can be accessed by the CRS means.  He also goes into penalties for not filing.  Has some webinars on video about various DTA's.  Anyway, their website also allows one to ask questions via online email plus, they do of course provide help in doing the tax forms next year for this year.  Just passing this on.  He mentions that if one has  local earned income, even if not here 180 or more days of the calendar year, they still have to file the tax form.  They have a sample tax form calculator than one can access too.  Talks about gifts, rentals, etc for those interested.  I realize than many of the AN users have already read too many notes,  ideas of people about the taxes - this is one of the agencies and hope their info is more accurate.  One can check their website about schedule for DTA countries.  If any income/pensions or whatever are not spelled out in the DTA  then they are not tax free here he says.  Good luck to all.

[anrcaccount]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

For those who are unsure as to the 2024 taxation scheme:  "expattaxesthailand.com" has some current webinars this week -

 

Be very careful relying on anything from this company, that sprung up only in October 2023, and is running a heavy marketing campaign capitalizing on expat concerns regarding taxation.

 

 

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

In addition he specifically says that ATM and credit card use in Thailand can be accessed by the CRS means.  

 

This is misinformation, is incorrect. Good example of why this company is to be treated with caution. 

 

Below are the facts on what info CRS actually shares. There's no way this information shared can include individual foreign ATM and foreign credit card transactions.

 

Table 4 ( page 60) it defines exactly what financial information is shared which is only yearly aggregate account balances, does not include individual transactions, excepting the cases of income as specified in table 5. 

 

Source: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf

 
Also, read the wikipedia page on the CRS , Relevant section, below:

 

 

Each participating country will annually automatically exchange with the other country the below information in the case of Jurisdiction A with respect to each Jurisdiction B reportable account, and in the case of Jurisdiction B with respect to each Jurisdiction A reportable account:[16]

 

1.Name, address, Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) and date and place of birth of each Reportable Person.

2.Account number

3.Name and identifying number of the reporting financial institution;

4.Account balance or value as of the end of the relevant calendar year (or other appropriate reporting period) or at its closure, if the account was closed.

5.Distributions made to the account (dividends, interest, gross proceeds/redemptions, other)

 

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard 

[Agusts]

Would this work if one is not staying for 180 days now, transfer enough to Thailand to live on for say 3 years, then after that leave for 180 days and during that time transfer again, and repeat...!? So no income transfered during tax resident period...

 

Would the clever Sumachi taxman pick on that..., well, even if did, can be tax resident one year and not the next year, right...? 

[Cardano]

All the money I bring in to Thailand is derived from dividends paid via shares held in an ISA which are tax free in the UK. How will the Thai revenue department treat income such as this?

[Presnock]

8 minutes ago, Cardano said:

All the money I bring in to Thailand is derived from dividends paid via shares held in an ISA which are tax free in the UK. How will the Thai revenue department treat income such as this?

Unless those funds are specifically mentioned in the DTA between he UK and Thailand, I do believe that Thailand will tax any of those funds remitted into Thailand.  If the UK had taxed them, then you could get a tax credit but since you say the UK doesn't tax those funds, Thailand probably will.  I am not a tax expert but from what I have read and heard this is what will happen.  If those funds were  in your account prior to 01 January 2024, then you might get by with no taxes but like I say, I am not an expert on any taxes other than my own.  Good luck anyway.

[topt]

On 11/1/2024 at 11:41 AM, anrcaccount said:

This is misinformation, is incorrect.

Based on what I have read I tend to agree but it is not crystal clear as has been previously mentioned in one or more threads. 

However the person who emoted a laugh at your comment should say why ........man up or shut up springs to mind...........

[topt]

3 hours ago, Agusts said:

Would this work if one is not staying for 180 days now, transfer enough to Thailand to live on for say 3 years, then after that leave for 180 days and during that time transfer again, and repeat...!? So no income transfered during tax resident period...

 

Would the clever Sumachi taxman pick on that..., well, even if did, can be tax resident one year and not the next year, right...? 

Supposedly it is whether you are tax resident when the income is earned that is more relevant than whether you are resident when it is transferred.

If you have good records of when you earned and can produce that if required.

However whether you would be picked up on it probably depends on amounts transferred/frequency so you can roll the dice if that's your style......

[topt]

2 hours ago, Cardano said:

All the money I bring in to Thailand is derived from dividends paid via shares held in an ISA which are tax free in the UK. How will the Thai revenue department treat income such as this?

Assesable depending on how much relative to TEDA......unless savings held prior to 01/01/2024 so already paid at that date or earned as a non tax resident since......

[Eudaimonia]

On 10/31/2024 at 6:14 PM, Agusts said:

How do they establish money was earned before 1/1/2024...?

 

I have a saving bank account of say £10k, this has accumulated interest added over 20 years, now say in 2025 I transfer 1k from this account to Thailand. How would we establish what part of this money was earned after 1/1/2024 and what part was before.... (I know it's a small part due to low interest rate etc. but as an example). I don't understand this because many people earn and save over the years, then transfer from their accumulated saving....!? 

Compare the balance now with that of 31/12/2023.

 

If the bank balance was £10,000 at the end of 2023 and you have received monthly interest payments in 2024 (and nothing else), the balance might now be £10,220.

 

10000/10220 = 97.85% is from pre-2024
220/10220 = 2.15% is from 2024.

 

You transfer £1000. Of that amount, 2.15%, or £21.53, was earned in 2024.

[chiang mai]

7 hours ago, Eudaimonia said:

Compare the balance now with that of 31/12/2023.

 

If the bank balance was £10,000 at the end of 2023 and you have received monthly interest payments in 2024 (and nothing else), the balance might now be £10,220.

 

10000/10220 = 97.85% is from pre-2024
220/10220 = 2.15% is from 2024.

 

You transfer £1000. Of that amount, 2.15%, or £21.53, was earned in 2024.

What you have described is incorrect and appears to be a proportional formula for capital gains remittance rather than the remittance of savings.

 

If the poster has 10,000 pounds in a savings account, as of 31/12/2023, he/she can draw down and remit that amount any time therefacter, reducing the  end of year statemented amount accordingly and the entire 10k is free of Thai tax. @Agusts

 

 

[Agusts]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

What you have described is incorrect and appears to be a proportional formula for capital gains remittance rather than the remittance of savings.

 

If the poster has 10,000 pounds in a savings account, as of 31/12/2023, he/she can draw down and remit that amount any time therefacter, reducing the  end of year statemented amount accordingly and the entire 10k is free of Thai tax. @Agusts

 

 

 

This sounds good, so on their Thai tax form I can enter somewhere I transfered £10k and also somewhere that I say it was earned before 1/1/2024, so have zero tax to pay, and that would be the end of it...?

And I would have statement to prove if they enquired further.... (well, no statement these days, but can get online printout....).