Introduction to Personal Income Tax in Thailand

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

I would suggest that people should err on the side of caution. If they are not sure, go sometime between Jan and March 2025 and attempt to file a tax return.

 

Let the RD tell you no need / go away / yes you need to file.

 

And I personally would not be prepared to accept the word of a minion at my local tax office if they told me that I didn't need to file. If they refused to accept the tax return which I intend to submit for the 2024 tax year, then I would instead submit it in paper form by EMS postage to TRD's HQ office in Bangkok under cover of a suitable letter (written in English, of course).

Edited yesterday at 07:47 AM by OJAS

[samtam]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

 

And I personally would not be prepared to accept the word of a minion at my local tax office if they told me that I didn't need to file. If they refused to accept the tax return which I intend to submit for the 2024 tax year, then I would instead submit it in paper form by EMS to TRD's HQ office in Bangkok under cover of a suitable letter (written in English, of course).

 

I live in Bangkok, so if I was going to visit them, it would be their Head Office. If they said "no need to file", I would prepare a letter in English & Thai to that effect, for them to sign and chop. Very possibly they would ignore that, because Lord knows, whereas with Thai bureaucracy we have to sign a forest, they individually do not want any accountability.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

And I personally would not be prepared to accept the word of a minion at my local tax office if they told me that I didn't need to file.

 

That is why I have said on numerous occassions, the onus is on the individual to work out whether they need to file, or not, as the case may be.

 

It is also a good idea to be armed with a list of TEDA's that an individual is entitled to claim, if they do have to file.

 

4 minutes ago, OJAS said:

If they refused to accept the tax return which I intend to submit for the 2024 tax year, then I would instead submit it in paper form by EMS to TRD's HQ office in Bangkok under cover of a suitable letter (written in English, of course).

 

Nothing wrong with that per se, and would of course be up to you. Although I am not convinced that it  would achieve anything, except perhaps making you feel a bit better.

[JimGant]

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

So, if it was me.

 

I would rock up at RD Office, complete with ATM withdrawal slips and ask the RD " Do I need to file  a tax return and how do I do it "

How do you say in Thai: "Get the hook, Charlie."

[treetops]

15 minutes ago, samtam said:

I've long thought that, and wondered why no one else has done that, or if they have, why they haven't, (to my knowledge) shared that experience on this magnum opus hopeless.

 

There's a couple of threads about visits to the tax office although not sure how helpful they might be, especially with regard to the specific query mentioned by The Cyclist.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1318120-revenue-department-contact-reports/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1330694-a-visit-to-the-tax-office/

 

 

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I've long thought that, and wondered why no one else has done that, or if they have, why they haven't, (to my knowledge) shared that experience on this magnum opus hopeless.

 

I did last February and posted the results on this forum somewhere.

 

2 x Pensions from the UK, both taxed in the UK. All documentation in a nice presentation folder, trusty intereptor by my side.

 

No need to file anything, was the very polite reply from the RD Officer.

[JimGant]

19 minutes ago, samtam said:

I've long thought that, and wondered why no one else has done that, or if they have, why they haven't, (to my knowledge) shared that experience on this magnum opus hopeless.

'Cause it makes no sense. What reasonable person would take an armful of ATM slips to TRD and ask: "Do I have to file a return based on these?' Come on, folks. Let's use a little common sense in this discussion. Ok, if you have a bunch of other assessable income entries, besides ATM slips, to ask questions about -- then, ok, unload the 36 atm slips on the clerk's desk -- if they may be a tie breaker for filing , or not. Otherwise, no isolated ATM slip presentation to TRD -- as you'll get funny looks.

[OJAS]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

It is also a good idea to be armed with a list of TEDA's that an individual is entitled to claim, if they do have to file.

 

On the subject of TEDA's, it strikes me as totally unacceptable that we won't, as I understand things, know for certain how much these will amount to for the 2024 tax year, both collectively and individually, until such time as the TRD publish their new forms. Contrast this with the UK where Rachel Reeves confirmed in her Budget speech on 30 October that the existing £12,570 tax-free allowance will continue to apply until the 2027/28 tax year!

[JimGant]

23 minutes ago, OJAS said:

And I personally would not be prepared to accept the word of a minion at my local tax office if they told me that I didn't need to file.

Why not? Get it in writing. Is there a need of some kind to have a filed Thai tax return in your possession? Yes, Norwegians need such to get a Norwegian tax exemption. But, what about you? Just curious, as there maybe really is a need to have a return in your possession....

[norbra]

33 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

I've long thought that, and wondered why no one else has done that, or if they have, why they haven't, (to my knowledge) shared that experience on this magnum opus hopeless.

I have posted several times re my visit to BKK Revenue Dept.

The advice I was given when my application for a TIN was rejected,

 

You do not qualify as you have no income from employment in Thailand.

You have a "retirement visa" so you are prohibited from working in Thailand.

Your pension income is paid in your home country,so it is not assessed.

Note this is about my circumstances only

Edited yesterday at 08:10 AM by norbra

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, OJAS said:

On the subject of TEDA's, it strikes me as totally unacceptable that we won't, as I understand things, know for certain how much these will amount to for the 2024 tax year, both collectively and individually, until such time as the TRD publish their new forms.

 

What people are entitled to claim in TEDA's has been posted ad nauseam.

 

The final arbiter of these TEDA's is an RD Official as per Section 38 of the Revenue Code.

 

Given that it has been reported in the Press that the RD has been swamped with false / fraudulent claims for tax year 2023. Don't be surprised if they scrutinise TEDA's rather harshly.

Edited yesterday at 08:14 AM by The Cyclist
typo

[samtam]

9 minutes ago, norbra said:

I have posted several times re my visit to BKK Revenue Dept.

The advice I was given when my application for a TIN was rejected,

 

You do not qualify as you have no income from employment in Thailand.

You have a "retirement visa" so you are prohibited from working in Thailand.

Your pension income is paid in your home country,so it is not assessed.

Note this is about my circumstances only

 

Well thank you. I had not seen your response. Your situation is the same as mine. Can you tell me which floor section of Bangkok RD you went to?

I want to hear exactly the same, but in person.

 

I presume they didn't ask, nor had any interest in knowing how you fund your living in Thailand, (presumably as a tax resident).

Edited yesterday at 08:18 AM by samtam

[chiang mai]

I would caution against using common sense as a guide to determining your actions. I would want to be guided by the letter of the law and the written (not spoken) word, no more, no less. I think where people get into difficulty is when they try to interpret things and give themselves the benefit of the doubt, because it only makes sense.

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, samtam said:

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Better to be safe than sorry

 

So, if it was me.

 

I would rock up at RD Office, complete with ATM withdrawal slips and ask the RD " Do I need to file  a tax return and how do I do it "

 

Let them guide you 

 

I've long thought that, and wondered why no one else has done that, or if they have, why they haven't, (to my knowledge) shared that experience on this magnum opus hopeless.

 

Let them guide you. Sounds sensible.....however: 

 

There have been multiple reports of members turning up to various TRD offices, then leaving without a TIN and without being able to pay any tax. 

 

Also, multiple reports that the TRD phone helpline goes unanswered. 

 

If all else fails, you could print 3x copies of this thread and take it into the TRD office? 

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Let them guide you. Sounds sensible.....however: 

 

There have been multiple reports of members turning up to various TRD offices, then leaving without a TIN and without being able to pay any tax. 

 

Also, multiple reports that the TRD phone helpline goes unanswered. 

 

If all else fails, you could print 3x copies of this thread and take it into the TRD office? 

Those responses should not come as amy surprise to anyone who has lived here for a while, even the bank branches and Immigration offices give different answers to the same questions, depending where you are and who you see. It has been widely acknowledged in many of the video's and interviews I have seen it said several times that TRD HQ has done a poor job of communicating to the regions on this point, and then of course we have Region to District communications on top of that and District to Branch as well. Typically, the closer you are to the center, aka Bangkok, the better your chances of getting the right answers.

[samtam]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I did last February and posted the results on this forum somewhere.

 

2 x Pensions from the UK, both taxed in the UK. All documentation in a nice presentation folder, trusty intereptor by my side.

 

No need to file anything, was the very polite reply from the RD Officer.

 

Was it to:

 

The Revenue Department

90 Soi Phaholyothin 7 Phaholyothin Road, Phayathai, Bangkok 10400

 

As noted, the differences in responses is as varied as the number of offices countrywide. I think the address I have given as above, in Phayathai, is the Head Office. I live in Sathorn, so I presume I would go to the Sathorn Area Office, near Chan Road.

[The Cyclist]

41 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

There have been multiple reports of members turning up to various TRD offices, then leaving without a TIN and without being able to pay any tax. 

 

Yes, I was one of them.

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, samtam said:

 

Was it to:

 

The Revenue Department

90 Soi Phaholyothin 7 Phaholyothin Road, Phayathai, Bangkok 10400

 

As noted, the differences in responses is as varied as the number of offices countrywide. I think the address I have given as above, in Phayathai, is the Head Office. I live in Sathorn, so I presume I would go to the Sathorn Area Office, near Chan Road.

 

No, I went in person with all relevant documentation to my nearest RD Office

[The Cyclist]

32 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Those responses should not come as amy surprise to anyone who has lived here for a while, even the bank branches and Immigration offices give different answers to the same questions, depending where you are and who you see.

 

Absolutely

 

I would be utterly astounded at this stage if all RD Offices were giving out the same responses.

 

I would be even more astounded if they ever gave out the same responses.

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Although I am not convinced that it  would achieve anything, except perhaps making you feel a bit better.

 

More a case of minimising the risk of the TRD eventually coming back to bite me in the backside than feeling a bit better in the short term, I think.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I would caution against using common sense as a guide to determining your actions

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

I would be utterly astounded at this stage if all RD Offices were giving out the same responses.

 

I would be even more astounded if they ever gave out the same responses.

 

Using common sense seems to be our only defense against all these disparate answers to tax questions. The most common refrain seems to be: "You're a foreign expat so you owe no taxes here. So, don't bother me with getting a TIN, and filing a Thai tax return." Then, I determine I, somehow, have 60,000 baht in remitted assessable income -- which the rules say I'm supposed to file a tax return. But my TEDA is 560,000 baht -- meaning, there's a 500,000 baht gap before I even HAVE any taxable income. Common sense, for me at least -- and probably for most of the working class clerks at TRD -- says: Don't bother to file. They, like us, can see through shoddy tax rules -- as evidenced by all the "go home" for folks showing up to file nil tax returns. What a waste of TRD resources and trees. 

 

So, if no taxable income, common sense says don't file. Yes, there's report that says you might be susceptible to a 2000 baht fine for not filing. No evidence that's ever happened -- but if it did, big deal. Other fear mongering had: They'll go back ten years and look at all your tax positions. Nonsense. Only if they found, in the current situation, that you didn't pay taxes owed, or under paid -- would they go back several years. In this case, they'll only find that you didn't file -- but didn't have any taxable income. Naughty, naughty, naughty.

 

No, common sense dictates -- use common sense in navigating all this Thai tax mumbo jumbo.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Those responses should not come as amy surprise to anyone who has lived here for a while, even the bank branches and Immigration offices give different answers to the same questions, depending where you are and who you see. It has been widely acknowledged in many of the video's and interviews I have seen it said several times that TRD HQ has done a poor job of communicating to the regions on this point, and then of course we have Region to District communications on top of that and District to Branch as well. Typically, the closer you are to the center, aka Bangkok, the better your chances of getting the right answers.

 

All the more reason to file returns to the TRD come hell or high water, I think - even if it means submitting these direct to their Bangkok HQ if our local offices refuse to accept them, as I am planning to do if need be.

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Using common sense seems to be our only defense against all these disparate answers to tax questions. The most common refrain seems to be: "You're a foreign expat so you owe no taxes here. So, don't bother me with getting a TIN, and filing a Thai tax return." Then, I determine I, somehow, have 60,000 baht in remitted assessable income -- which the rules say I'm supposed to file a tax return. But my TEDA is 560,000 baht -- meaning, there's a 500,000 baht gap before I even HAVE any taxable income. Common sense, for me at least -- and probably for most of the working class clerks at TRD -- says: Don't bother to file. They, like us, can see through shoddy tax rules -- as evidenced by all the "go home" for folks showing up to file nil tax returns. What a waste of TRD resources and trees. 

 

So, if no taxable income, common sense says don't file. Yes, there's report that says you might be susceptible to a 2000 baht fine for not filing. No evidence that's ever happened -- but if it did, big deal. Other fear mongering had: They'll go back ten years and look at all your tax positions. Nonsense. Only if they found, in the current situation, that you didn't pay taxes owed, or under paid -- would they go back several years. In this case, they'll only find that you didn't file -- but didn't have any taxable income. Naughty, naughty, naughty.

 

No, common sense dictates -- use common sense in navigating all this Thai tax mumbo jumbo.

Your common sense approach hasn't done anyone any favours so far, if anything it's been a massive distraction and given only false comfort. You argued aggressively for many months that there was no penalty for not filing - there is. You swore to members they don't have to file null returns and you ridiculed those that had filed - it seems millions of people do. You want everyone to follow your idea and only do things that make sense to you and you now think the clerks in TRD will go along with this, you also tell us that nobody has ever been fined blah blah. You're trying to create your own rules for foreigner tax operations here when clearly you know less about Thai taxation than many members. TBH Jim, if somebody wanted to get into trouble with the TRD here, they only need to follow your advice because it's a fast track certainty. You may know your stuff when it comes to US taxation et al but you really ought to back pedal when it comes to telling people how to manage their Thai tax affairs. 

[The Cyclist]

43 minutes ago, JimGant said:

What a waste of TRD resources and trees. 

 

Are you even in Thailand ?
 

The wasting of trees seems to be a National pastime, especially in Government departments.

 

So if you are in Thailand, as a tax resident, you do what you think is best when it comes to your income and whether you need to file a tax return.

 

Personally, I couldn't care less what you do.

 

But if people are still asking genuine questions, I will try and answer them, where possible, even if it is only generic advice that might save them falling foul of the RD.

[The Cyclist]

No idea why you quoted me and then posted this

 

53 minutes ago, JimGant said:

The most common refrain seems to be: "You're a foreign expat so you owe no taxes here. So, don't bother me with getting a TIN, and filing a Thai tax return.

 

I think you should put the laughing juice down and stop posting.

[Unamerican]

Please can someone explain in detail all about TEDAs!  And whether they are relevant to any of us who are not getting money from from the USA. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Unamerican

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Unamerican said:

Please can someone explain in detail all about TEDAs!  And whether they are relevant to any of us who are not getting money from from the USA. 

I strongly suggest you read the first post in this thread, TEDA are relevant to everyone.

[Unamerican]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

TEDA are relevant to everyone.

Maybe, but difficult to know this when the acronym is unknown to many of us!  Where does it come from? 

Note that the only response that was in fact needed was an  explanation that it is the acronym for: 

TAX EXEMPTIONS DEDUCTIONS & ALLOWANCES

Which is far more understandable than TEDA.

 

So “thanks, but not an at all useful response”! 

Edited 18 hours ago by Unamerican

[chiang mai]

Just now, Unamerican said:

Maybe, but difficult to know this when the acronym is unknown!  Where does it come from! 

Note that the only response needle was an example lanation that it is the acronym from: TAX EXEMPTIONS DEDUCTIONS & ALLOWANCES

Which is far more understandable than TEDA.

 

So “thanks, but not a useful response”! 

TEDA is the THai Revenue Department terms for tax exemptions deductions and allowances, its their acronym..

[Unamerican]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

TEDA is the THai Revenue Department terms for tax exemptions deductions and allowances, its their acronym..

Thanks for this explanation of the origins.