Retirement 800k rules

[mja1906]

Hi, if I have just changed from a 30day exempt to non-O for retirement and they gave me an appointment date in around 30days time, where hopefully they will stamp another 90days (in which time I will apply for the 1 year extension), am I correct in thinking I can still withdraw money from my bank account (for everyday use), as long as it does not fall below 800k? How about after I apply for the 1 year extension? What are rules then regarding transactions from the account, and not falling below 800k? Thanks

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, mja1906 said:

How about after I apply for the 1 year extension? What are rules then regarding transactions from the account, and not falling below 800k?

First part of your post is correct.

You are in under consideration period. 

Do not allow funds to fall below 800k.

When you return you will be given a stamp and when the funds have been in bank for 2 months you can apply for 12 month extension.

After extension approved you must not drop below 800k for next 3 months.

After that 3 months not below 400k.

Then back up to 800k for 2 months prior to next application. 

Wash and repeat. 

 

Note: some folk opt to have a dedicated bank account for extension purposes and another account for day to day banking

[MPoll]

22 hours ago, mja1906 said:What are rules then regarding transactions from the account, and not falling below 800k? Thanks

The rule is don’t fall below the 800k. I have one bank account where I kept the 800k + a 400k buffer + my daily/monthly expenses whenever I decided to transfer the money to Thailand. I did this for 6 years of extending my OA visa in Bangkok before switching to an LTR. I submitted 1 year bank statements when I applied for each extension and I assume they just scanned the total bank balance column to see that I followed the rules.

 

The actual financial rules are that you have to have the 800k in your Thai bank account, in your name only, for 2 months before you apply for the 1 year extension, 3 months after, and not less than 400k the other months. Then you have to bump it back up to 800k two months before your next extension. I just kept 800k+ all the time because it was easy and I could afford to do it. 

 

 

[expat_4_life]

52 minutes ago, MPoll said:

The actual financial rules are that you have to have the 800k in your Thai bank account, in your name only, for 2 months before you apply for the 1 year extension, 3 months after, and not less than 400k the other months.

 

I like to refer to this as the "2-3-4 rule" - makes it easy to remember

[Liquorice]

Funds requirement for 1 year permit of stay, listed in clause 4 of order 35-2561.

 

35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf 

[paddypower]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:43 AM, DrJack54 said:

First part of your post is correct.

You are in under consideration period. 

Do not allow funds to fall below 800k.

When you return you will be given a stamp and when the funds have been in bank for 2 months you can apply for 12 month extension.

After extension approved you must not drop below 800k for next 3 months.

After that 3 months not below 400k.

Then back up to 800k for 2 months prior to next application. 

Wash and repeat. 

 

Note: some folk opt to have a dedicated bank account for extension purposes and another account for day to day banking

Like you, I'm in the process of switching from 800k term deposit to income method. I have used the 800k method for extending my retirement visa, like, forever years. This next year, (Feb 2025) I will be retroactively switching to the income method (65k months X 12 months). I need to withdraw the 400k as soon as is allowed. My question is what is the earliest date, I can do so, exactly? My current visa was extended on Feb 12, 2024. The IO said 3 months - is that defined as 90 days or 3 calendar months or, as usual, is it not clearly defined in the regulations?. Obviously, I'll top up the 400k to 800k according to the rules. I am gun shy, from using this office. The same office 2 years ago refused my extension request because it included the month of February, which,the IO said 'was a short month so they didn't count it, when calculating the 90 days from the date the 400k had been topped up.' don't knock yourself out on that oddity - he's been moved to an inactive post., due to other complaints.

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, paddypower said:

I am gun shy,

Ditto.

I would take it up to the 800k 4 months prior to application. 

Note not expiry. 

[paddypower]

19 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Ditto.

I would take it up to the 800k 4 months prior to application. 

Note not expiry. 

Thanks...I will be sure to do that. That leaves the question of what date can I draw down 400k?

[foreverlomsak]

6 minutes ago, paddypower said:

That leaves the question of what date can I draw down 400k?

Rightly or wrongly I count it from the extension expiry date, in my case 29 April, so therefore 29 May (30 days), 29 June (31 Days), 29 July (30 days) so total of 91 days, in case months are being counted as 31 days each it's safe to move on August 1, by doing so I had no issue with my local office 3 days ago for my annual extension.

I personally think it should be from the approval date not from the expiry date, but is it worth the potential problem next year for a few days this year.

[paddypower]

Edited: thanks. if only this Gord Darn country would remove the exception to the Immigration regulations where it is ''subject to the interpretation of the local IO'' ...or what ever words they use to make like more difficult than it need be. No other civilized country makes up laws and rules where they can be interpreted in any number of ways,, depending on the mood of the person you are dealing  Sorry to say this, but some Thai government officials can be real snakes, when it comes to exercising their authority.  so, Rant over. in my case.       Following your suggestion, (this is a bit of a wrinkle.... visa extension stamped on Feb 5, 2024 expires on Feb 11, 2025. ) I will start calculating on Feb 6 -29 = 23days + march 1-31 = 31days   April 1-30 = 30days  May 1-13 =  13 days Total ; 97 days. EDIT: 2024 expiry date Feb 11, 2024 - add Feb 12-29 = 18+31+30+ May 1-16 = 16 = total 95 days. I think that May 16 should be safe for a new date for draw-down of 400k. thanks for spending time on my situation.

Edited April 12 by paddypower

[paddypower]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

Rightly or wrongly I count it from the extension expiry date, in my case 29 April, so therefore 29 May (30 days), 29 June (31 Days), 29 July (30 days) so total of 91 days, in case months are being counted as 31 days each it's safe to move on August 1, by doing so I had no issue with my local office 3 days ago for my annual extension.

I personally think it should be from the approval date not from the expiry date, but is it worth the potential problem next year for a few days this year.

that is a very interesting opinion: my extension date was stamped Feb 5. whereas the previous year's extension expired Feb 11. to be 100% safe, I should re-calculate, starting with the 2024 expiry date.

Edited April 12 by paddypower

[Jingthing]

The rule is definitely from the extension date, not the expiration date. However I totally get being paranoid about that.

[paddypower]

Any chance any one can refer me to the police Order # ,, describing how many days the 800k much be topped up by, before the next extension date., please? another contributor said 4 months. My IO, this past Feb. said I needed to have the 800k for 2 months. prior to the date of extension. Thanks in advance. this advice allows me to invest in a fund which will pay me 5.5% pre-tax, for the 6 months.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, paddypower said:

My IO, this past Feb. said I needed to have the 800k for 2 months. prior to the date of extension.

Correct.

[paddypower]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The rule is definitely from the extension date, not the expiration date. However I totally get being paranoid about that.

It seems to be a trade off. you get to live in a country where there are a lot of rules which no self-respecting Thai follows expect us sheeple 🙂 Think the ongoing circus over the Thaksin family. It's not far removed from Life With the Kardashians ( I am so not into that kind of thing that I had to ck the spelling 😉 

[paddypower]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Correct.

as we say in the home country ''brilliant'' thanks.

[paddypower]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Correct.

are there 2 Dr Jacks? '' I quote your first response'

'Ditto.

I would take it up to the 800k 4 months prior to application. 

Note not expiry'

which is it, 2 month or 4 months.? thanks.

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, paddypower said:

are there 2 Dr Jacks? '' I quote your first response'

'Ditto.

I would take it up to the 800k 4 months prior to application. 

Note not expiry'

which is it, 2 month or 4 months.? thanks.

It's 2 months prior to date of application for extension. 

The 4 was a typo.

 

So it's all about the date of application. 

800k for 2 months prior to application + maintained at 800k for 3 months after application and not below 400k in other months

[paddypower]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:07 PM, DrJack54 said:

It's 2 months prior to date of application for extension. 

The 4 was a typo.

 

So it's all about the date of application. 

800k for 2 months prior to application + maintained at 800k for 3 months after application and not below 400k in other months

thanks - that's a big help.

[paddypower]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:43 AM, DrJack54 said:

First part of your post is correct.

You are in under consideration period. 

Do not allow funds to fall below 800k.

When you return you will be given a stamp and when the funds have been in bank for 2 months you can apply for 12 month extension.

After extension approved you must not drop below 800k for next 3 months.

After that 3 months not below 400k.

Then back up to 800k for 2 months prior to next application. 

Wash and repeat. 

 

Note: some folk opt to have a dedicated bank account for extension purposes and another account for day to day banking

agree, absolutely. You do have to be 100% careful. Some IO's, like mine, treat you like you're a potential criminal. I had a difficult time with the IO, showing her my 800k  term deposit bank book. You would think that's a non- brainer, right? I presented the original book, updated with a deposit the day before the extension application date; together with the certification letter from the bank. Immediately got accused of possibly cashing the deposit in and then re-depositing it. Was not aware a certified detailed statement of the deposit account was also required. Fortunately, I was able to go to a local bank and get the statement. The bank said they could only update it  to the date of the term deposit renewal -  Sept 30, 2023. But that was 4 1/2 months prior to the application date. That left the IO in a quandary (which is like Purgatory for Catholics, a temporary place of suffering, while you wait to go to Heaven). Very fortunately, the SCB officer was really helpful and gave me her business card of the SCB branch and suggested I tell the IO to call her. Problem solved.

[paddypower]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:42 AM, expat_4_life said:

 

I like to refer to this as the "2-3-4 rule" - makes it easy to remember

cute. I'll save that idea.

[paddypower]

On 4/10/2024 at 5:12 PM, Liquorice said:

Funds requirement for 1 year permit of stay, listed in clause 4 of order 35-2561.

 

35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf 217.77 kB · 8 downloads  

MUCH appreciated. especially the reminder of the rules at 6.2. there are those who argue that using the piggy-back option when one's wife is not a Thai national, is unwise. That is, if it is granted by the IO you are dealing with, as it seems to be at their discretion. 

Edited April 16 by paddypower
spell

[Doctor Tom]

A slight difference for me. I use an agent to get my yearly extension, mainly, or even solely. because I can't stand Immigration offices or IOs.  I too use the 800K rule, but I usually drop behind after month three, usually around 200K, so only 600K in the account. My agent usually applies for my extension up to 30 days before it's due.  In that circumstance, I always ensure that I do my top up to 800K 3 months before the extension date, rather than 2 months.  My agent tells me this is not necessary, as we are applying early, so the 2 months still stands.  But as we all know here, it's all okay, until it isn't, so I will stick to the early top up. 

[Somrak]

Does not know how to make a Non-O in TH.

Think he did go outside the country?

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by Somrak

[Somrak]

I think a extension is only possible if you come into TH with a non-O visa. Visa exempt should not be possible!!!!

Why nobody says something to this?

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Somrak said:

I think a extension is only possible if you come into TH with a non-O visa. Visa exempt should not be possible!!!!

Why nobody says something to this?

That's incorrect.

A non O based on retirement or marriage can be obtained at Thai immigration from a visa exempt or tourist visa entry.

For tourist visa entry you use form TM86 and visa exempt entry TM87.. 

 

Here is forms requured.

https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf

[bigt3116]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:37 AM, mja1906 said:

where hopefully they will stamp another 90days

 

No, you will receive the remainder of the 90 days (so about 60)

 

 

[Henryford]

I keep mine at 800k with a buffer all year round. I know it wastes money i could get on interest elesewhere but it keeps it simple with no chance of slip ups if i forget to top up at the right time.

[MPoll]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

I keep mine at 800k with a buffer all year round. I know it wastes money i could get on interest elesewhere but it keeps it simple with no chance of slip ups if i forget to top up at the right time.

I did the same for many years. Extensions were very simple. It’s one of those things you do if you can afford it and the cost is worth the benefits for you. It’s a personal decision.

[paddypower]

37 minutes ago, MPoll said:

I did the same for many years. Extensions were very simple. It’s one of those things you do if you can afford it and the cost is worth the benefits for you. It’s a personal decision.

It's also a cost/benefit decision. This year end I will switch to pension income basis. so Il take 400k out for 6 months, invest it at 5% net of tax (that is 20,000 baht return on investment for 6 months) and rebuild my 800k balance using my incoming monthly pension. We  live off Thai investment incomes/rents). the 40,000 baht a year saved will be invested in maintaining my wine storage unit 🙂