Self insured - what amount?

[JontS]

Planning a move to Thailand, most likely next year and it looks like health insurance is a complete waste of money, as almost every claim will be denied due to pre-existing condition, even if there is none. 

 

For those of you that self insure, what amount have you put aside?

 

Thanks, Jon

[Foxx]

10 million baht.  One has to assume that there may be multiple expensive medical interventions required.  But even that much won't pay for many modern treatments.

[AreYouGerman]

First line of defense against health issues should be 1 hour cardio daily and no gluttony and no alcohol.

 

Also, an accident insurance could help a lot and will cover the most likely situations, as this could have serious consequences if you are f.ex. unconscious. They will leave you to die if you don't have a credit card with substantial limits.

 

Outpatient stuff is like 50k per year, heart attacks will cost probably 1-2 million THB, for stuff like cancer you need a plan B as it can get expensive quickly, something like declare bankruptcy in your passport country and get free health insurance.

 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, JontS said:

Planning a move to Thailand, most likely next year and it looks like health insurance is a complete waste of money, as almost every claim will be denied due to pre-existing condition, even if there is none. 

 

For those of you that self insure, what amount have you put aside?

 

Thanks, Jon

After over 300 claims I am still waiting to get denied.. Where did you get this utter nonsense from?

[scottiejohn]

25 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

After over 300 claims 

You must be very healthy!

😶‍🌫️

Edited May 3 by scottiejohn
edited

[Ben Zioner]

17 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

You must be very healthy!

😶‍🌫️

33 years of family coverage, with OPD.

[AreYouGerman]

42 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

After over 300 claims I am still waiting to get denied.. Where did you get this utter nonsense from?

 

You seem to be unable to comprehend the situation to its full extent. The poster has one or multiple per-existing conditions and won't get into any private insurance as they will exclude basically 99% of illnesses. "Stroke? Oh, because per-existing condition".

[Ben Zioner]

2 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

You seem to be unable to comprehend the situation to its full extent. The poster has one or multiple per-existing conditions and won't get into any private insurance as they will exclude basically 99% of illnesses. "Stroke? Oh, because per-existing condition".

Which part of "even if there is none" didn't you understand?

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

If a policyholder really does not have any pre-existing conditions according to the policy's definition of such, on what basis would an insurer exclude a claim due to a pre-existing condition?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[QuantumQuandry]

6 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

If a policyholder really does not have any pre-existing conditions according to the policy's definition of such, on what basis would an insurer exclude a claim due to a pre-existing condition?

 

Potentially any hospital visit he has ever had and did not disclose.  Also, one may have a pre-existing condition and not be aware of it.

 

Not saying every insurance company will be that strict.  But the potential is there.

Edited May 3 by QuantumQuandry

[QuantumQuandry]

1 hour ago, AreYouGerman said:

Outpatient stuff is like 50k per year, heart attacks will cost probably 1-2 million THB, for stuff like cancer you need a plan B as it can get expensive quickly, something like declare bankruptcy in your passport country and get free health insurance.

 

Are those numbers for a top notch private hospital?  I imagine that if I have a heart attack or am incapacitated, I won't necessarily end up in BKK-Pattaya but may end up in the closest government hospital, which would be a lot cheaper.

[Gottfrid]

28 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

33 years of family coverage, with OPD.

Yes, like over 1 claim every 2 month. Sure dude!

[AreYouGerman]

3 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

Are those numbers for a top notch private hospital?  I imagine that if I have a heart attack or am incapacitated, I won't necessarily end up in BKK-Pattaya but may end up in the closest government hospital, which would be a lot cheaper.

 

To give you an idea:

 

"In one case, a 75-year-old pensioner, who suffered a heart attack and was admitted to Vibhavadi Hospital, was left with a bill of 857,208 baht for surgery costing 600,000-700,000 baht. In a similar experience at Thonburi Hospital, the family of a 78-year-old heart attack patient refused to pay a bill for 480,000 baht."

 

https://www.magazine.medicaltourism.com/article/medical-tourism-in-thailand-when-treatment-costs-and-starbucks-clash

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

9 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

Potentially any hospital visit he has ever had and did not disclose.  Also, one may have a pre-existing condition and not be aware of it.

 

Not saying every insurance company will be that strict.  But the potential is there.

 

My statement was about not having a pre-existing condition at all, as was the OP's. Non-disclosure and being unaware of an existing condition are another matter entirely.

[QuantumQuandry]

1 minute ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

My statement was about not having a pre-existing condition at all, as was the OP's. Non-disclosure and being unaware of an existing condition are another matter entirely.

 

I don't think it is unrelated.  You asked why they would deny without a pre-existing condition.

 

One reason is that he didn't have a pre-existing condition but he had some doctor visit he forgot about or he didn't think was relevant that they dug up.  So in this case, he doesn't have a pre-existing condition, as you stated, and may still get denied.

 

Two is that he has a pre-existing condition he isn't aware of.  While technically, you put in a clause about him not having one at all, the practical question is that he signs up, unaware of any pre-existing condition and then gets denied anyway.

[AreYouGerman]

11 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Yes, like over 1 claim every 2 month. Sure dude!

 

And that's why health insurance makes no sense. Why would I pay for his sick body with my premiums. I am against communism.

 

Edited May 3 by AreYouGerman

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

8 minutes ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

I don't think it is unrelated.  You asked why they would deny without a pre-existing condition.

 

One reason is that he didn't have a pre-existing condition but he had some doctor visit he forgot about or he didn't think was relevant that they dug up.  So in this case, he doesn't have a pre-existing condition, as you stated, and may still get denied.

 

Two is that he has a pre-existing condition he isn't aware of.  While technically, you put in a clause about him not having one at all, the practical question is that he signs up, unaware of any pre-existing condition and then gets denied anyway.

In both cases he had a pre-existing condition.

[QuantumQuandry]

1 minute ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

In both cases he had a pre-existing condition.

 

Negative.

In the first scenario, he has a doctor visit, not a condition.

In the second, he technically has one but for the practical purposes of this question, did not.

[Ben Zioner]

21 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Yes, like over 1 claim every 2 month. Sure dude!

My estimate was probably low, because Doctors, Dentists, Ophthalmologists, glasses, etc for two adults and two kids amounted probably to more than that.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 minute ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

Negative.

In the first scenario, he has a doctor visit, not a condition.

In the second, he technically has one but for the practical purposes of this question, did not.

The doctor conjures up conditions that don’t exist and puts it in a report?

[QuantumQuandry]

24 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

"In one case, a 75-year-old pensioner, who suffered a heart attack and was admitted to Vibhavadi Hospital, was left with a bill of 857,208 baht for surgery costing 600,000-700,000 baht.

 

Kind of a funny sentence.  It cost 600-700k...but we billed him for 857,208.

 

Looked it up, for anyone wondering.  Definitely a private hospital.  Thank you for the data point.  Trying to figure out the health thing, myself 🙂

[Ben Zioner]

18 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

And that's why health insurance makes no sense. Why would I pay for his sick body with my premiums. I am against communism.

No worries mate we'll let you pay for your 6 weeks in ICU after your stoke on the treadmill.

[QuantumQuandry]

1 minute ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

The doctor conjures up conditions that don’t exist and puts it in a report?

 

You are the one that keeps saying it's a condition, you tell me.  I said 'doctor visit'.

 

Haven't you ever had a doctor visit that didn't end in a conclusive diagnosis of a condition?  I have.

[AreYouGerman]

Just now, QuantumQuandry said:

 

Kind of a funny sentence.  It cost 600-700k...but we billed him for 857,208.

 

Looked it up, for anyone wondering.  Definitely a private hospital.  Thank you for the data point.  Trying to figure out the health thing, myself 🙂

 

Well, they probably added room costs and so on. Surgery alone was 600-700k. Also, the article has no date so I guess it could be easily more.

 

I am self insured since 20 years and buy stocks from the amount I saved not having health insurance. It works for basically everything except the hardcore stuff like cancer. But in this case, there's always a path, especially if you own a passport from one of the communist EU countries.

[AreYouGerman]

3 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

No worries mate we'll let you pay for your 6 weeks in ICU after your stoke on the treadmill.

 

I wish you the best health on the last stretch of your life!

[QuantumQuandry]

Just now, AreYouGerman said:

But in this case, there's always a path, especially if you own a passport from one of the communist EU countries.

 

Yeah, Americans might get hosed on that one, though.  I am American but I do have, as you put it, an escape route for anything that is a) prohibitively expensive and b) non-emergency/can fly with.  Sadly, that isn't really very many things...cancer, kidney/liver disease maybe...

[daveAustin]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

After over 300 claims I am still waiting to get denied.. Where did you get this utter nonsense from?

I bet they love you! A typical boomer topic, but never understood why folk get so bent out of shape on this subject. We are all dead anyway. The guy thinking he'll live to like 130 and the insurance will see him through lol. To what end!

 

What folk should be answering to the topic is

  a) what health insurance REALLY works for those with 'conditions' 

  b) how much clout do you have to ride out the storm on one's own back

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 minute ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

You are the one that keeps saying it's a condition, you tell me.  I said 'doctor visit'.

 

Haven't you ever had a doctor visit that didn't end in a conclusive diagnosis of a condition?  I have.

A doctor visit isn’t a condition, but it may be necessary to disclose if consultation is sought for symptoms. Proposal forms often stipulate such. 

 

 

[Chivas]

24 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

 

 

 It works for basically everything except the hardcore stuff like cancer. But in this case, there's always a path, especially if you own a passport from one of the communist EU countries.

 

Perfect example of my "dont burn your bridges" phrase I use so much as regards homeland

 

Having had cancer myself in the bladder I know only too well the symptoms and whilst I've had very minor scares since 2002 its nor reoccured per se

 

The first real signs that it had then it would be that one ticket home Emailing my Doctors practice of which I've kept on the patient list (by way of tactical communication yearly)

 

The issue of self insurance becomes a problem if a biggie hits. The stroke. the heart attack or Trauma ( eg road accident)

 

If you're in a coma who authorises getting for example 1 million for starters out of your bank account if you are single ??

[Jimjim1]

1 hour ago, QuantumQuandry said:

Not saying every insurance company will be that strict.  But the potential is there.

So the poster should be more than 100%honest with the insurance company and talk to a manager to negotiate a favourable outcome.

There are many companies and agents on the British market who are happy to cover pre-existing so if he is in the UK he should talk with them about annual cover with £10,000,000 being a minimum.

If it costs £300 to £500 per annum it is still very good and cheap for £10,000,000, personally I would be happy to pay £1,000 for that level of cover, but then that’s just me.

 

Now it’s time for the cheap Charlie idiots to put the befuddled  emoticon on here.