Mid Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 the US didn't get the memo ............................ Market summary 12:14PM ET Dow 13,013.80 -65.28 (-0.50%) Nasdaq 2,493.48 -11.55 (-0.46%) S&P 500 1,435.22 -10.72 (-0.74%) 10y bond 4.68% -0.03 (-0.64%) USD-Euro 0.742 -0.0022 (-0.289%) USD-Yen 114.830 +1.4700 (1.297%) USD-GBP 0.504 -0.0016 (-0.317%) finance.google.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasVic Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 hedge funds are not necc evils - but they are evils.they and derivitives are so complicated that the net result is that no one even the financial monkeys can even understand them. proof - sub prime disaster before your eyes. they are unregulated becasue they cannot be understood or valued (often) The sub prime problem is a crisis because of some of these highly leveraged hedge funds, but the hedge fund industry is unregulated because of millions of dollars that they throw at congressmen and senators every year, not because of the complexity of their business model. Until now there has been no chance for meaningful legislation on the hedge fund industry to even get out of committee, but with this mess that they created the public outcry will change that very soon! I wouldn't be surprised to see meaningful legislation regulating and giving some transparency the hedge fund industry on the presidents desk by years end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine6 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 the US didn't get the memo ............................ Market summary 12:14PM ET Dow 13,013.80 -65.28 (-0.50%) Nasdaq 2,493.48 -11.55 (-0.46%) S&P 500 1,435.22 -10.72 (-0.74%) 10y bond 4.68% -0.03 (-0.64%) USD-Euro 0.742 -0.0022 (-0.289%) USD-Yen 114.830 +1.4700 (1.297%) USD-GBP 0.504 -0.0016 (-0.317%) finance.google.com Memo was just sitting in the inbox: Dow 13,121.35 up 42.27 Nasdaq 2,508.59 up 3.56 S&P 1,445.55 down 0.39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine6 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 hedge funds are not necc evils - but they are evils.they and derivitives are so complicated that the net result is that no one even the financial monkeys can even understand them. proof - sub prime disaster before your eyes. they are unregulated becasue they cannot be understood or valued (often) The sub prime problem is a crisis because of some of these highly leveraged hedge funds, but the hedge fund industry is unregulated because of millions of dollars that they throw at congressmen and senators every year, not because of the complexity of their business model. Until now there has been no chance for meaningful legislation on the hedge fund industry to even get out of committee, but with this mess that they created the public outcry will change that very soon! I wouldn't be surprised to see meaningful legislation regulating and giving some transparency the hedge fund industry on the presidents desk by years end. You'll note that they did finally start hedging - giving much more money to Hilary's campaign than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 The -sub prime- mortgage problems are far from over: Capital One Closes GreenPoint Mortgage, Idling 1,900 (jobs lost) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Thornburg Sells Securities to Revive Home Lending, sold $20.5 billion of securities at a discount to pay down debt it couldn't refinance. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news SunTrust Plans to Cut 2,400 Jobs by End of 2008 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Countrywide Financial Corp took out advertisements in many newspapers to reassure customers their bank deposits were safe. The largest U.S. mortgage lender has faced a flurry of withdrawals following the company's unexpected August 16 announcement that it tapped an $11.5 billion bank credit line. http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage1 LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 The -sub prime- mortgage problems are far from over:Capital One Closes GreenPoint Mortgage, Idling 1,900 (jobs lost) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Thornburg Sells Securities to Revive Home Lending, sold $20.5 billion of securities at a discount to pay down debt it couldn't refinance. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news SunTrust Plans to Cut 2,400 Jobs by End of 2008 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Countrywide Financial Corp took out advertisements in many newspapers to reassure customers their bank deposits were safe. The largest U.S. mortgage lender has faced a flurry of withdrawals following the company's unexpected August 16 announcement that it tapped an $11.5 billion bank credit line. http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage1 LaoPo I see this as a time of reckoning and good sign of coming back to normal. It is the time to let all the bad loans to rear their heads and be counted. If there is no shocking news affecting the financial system as a whole, such as major runs on banks, or illiquidity in lubricating business sectors, then we should be back to the normalcy by 2008 after the audit of 2007 accounts and improved methods of accountability of hedge funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 The -sub prime- mortgage problems are far from over:Capital One Closes GreenPoint Mortgage, Idling 1,900 (jobs lost) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Thornburg Sells Securities to Revive Home Lending, sold $20.5 billion of securities at a discount to pay down debt it couldn't refinance. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news SunTrust Plans to Cut 2,400 Jobs by End of 2008 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Countrywide Financial Corp took out advertisements in many newspapers to reassure customers their bank deposits were safe. The largest U.S. mortgage lender has faced a flurry of withdrawals following the company's unexpected August 16 announcement that it tapped an $11.5 billion bank credit line. http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage1 LaoPo I see this as a time of reckoning and good sign of coming back to normal. It is the time to let all the bad loans to rear their heads and be counted. If there is no shocking news affecting the financial system as a whole, such as major runs on banks, or illiquidity in lubricating business sectors, then we should be back to the normalcy by 2008 after the audit of 2007 accounts and improved methods of accountability of hedge funds. Could be...could be...but there's still a lot of <deleted> out there, in the financial system, banks + hedge funds, that we don't know about...yet. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 About Hedge Funds: Subprime Infects $300 Billion of Money Market Funds, Hikes Risk Aug. 20 (Bloomberg): Exclusive Money market funds were invented 37 years ago to offer investors better returns than bank savings accounts while providing a high degree of safety. Most of the $2.5 trillion sitting in these funds is invested in such assets as U.S. Treasury bills, certificates of deposit and short-term commercial debt. Unlike bank accounts, money market funds aren't insured by the federal government. They almost never fail. Unbeknownst to most investors, some of the largest money market funds today are putting part of their cash into one of the riskiest debt investments in the world: collateralized debt obligations [or: CDO's] backed by subprime mortgage loans. CDOs are packages of bonds and loans, and almost half of all CDOs sold in the U.S. in 2006 contained subprime debt, according to a March report by Moody's Investors Service. U.S. money market funds run by Bank of America Corp., Credit Suisse Group, Fidelity Investments and Morgan Stanley held more than $6 billion of CDOs with subprime debt in June, according to fund managers and filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Money market funds with total assets of $300 billion have invested in subprime debt this year. The danger of owning even highly rated CDOs containing subprime loans was thrown into sharp relief in June, when two Bear Stearns Cos. hedge funds that were holding subprime CDOs collapsed. The rest of this very long an detailed article is here, if you're interested: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Have fun LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 SET up 4.43% The Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) Index yesterday (August 20th) gained 33.60 points, or 4.43 percent higher, to close at 792.02. The market value was around 23,146,670,000 baht, with about 3,175,078,000 shares being traded. The SET 100 Index closed at 1,223.95 points, increasing by 58.00. The SET 50 Index ended at 564.86 points, increasing by 27.16. The Market for Alternative Investment (MAI) Index rose 6.70 points to close at 245.27. The top five most active values were as follows. PTT closed at 288.00 baht, up by 16.00, TOP closed at 76.00 baht, up by 3.00, PTTEP closed at 114.00 baht, up by 5.00, TTA closed at 45.75, up by 1.75 and RRC closed at 23.00 baht, up by 0.80. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 August 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 SET: 776.49 -15.53 -1.96% but not closed yet. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 The -sub prime- mortgage problems are far from over:Capital One Closes GreenPoint Mortgage, Idling 1,900 (jobs lost) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Thornburg Sells Securities to Revive Home Lending, sold $20.5 billion of securities at a discount to pay down debt it couldn't refinance. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news SunTrust Plans to Cut 2,400 Jobs by End of 2008 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Countrywide Financial Corp took out advertisements in many newspapers to reassure customers their bank deposits were safe. The largest U.S. mortgage lender has faced a flurry of withdrawals following the company's unexpected August 16 announcement that it tapped an $11.5 billion bank credit line. http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage1 LaoPo I see this as a time of reckoning and good sign of coming back to normal. It is the time to let all the bad loans to rear their heads and be counted. If there is no shocking news affecting the financial system as a whole, such as major runs on banks, or illiquidity in lubricating business sectors, then we should be back to the normalcy by 2008 after the audit of 2007 accounts and improved methods of accountability of hedge funds. Could be...could be...but there's still a lot of <deleted> out there, in the financial system, banks + hedge funds, that we don't know about...yet. LaoPo you are very right Laopo imagine you are walking down the street and you see a que infront of your bank... not your bank. you continue walking and after 2 blocks you see another bank with a que.. once again not your bank. after seeing 4-5 ques like this you stop and ask the person at the end of the que wahts going on?? hes reply is "what?? you did not here?? finaly when you get to your bank you see a que as well. so you join in as well. this is whats happening right now all over the world.. when normal day to day people have heard something is going on and they are trting to get the money out of stocks and hedge funds. now no bank in the world is capable of giving all the clients the money if the wish to withdraw. and this situation is very voletile for the econmoy... In steps the central bank pouring mony into circulation... trying to relax the public that everyhting is under controll. but the public is not so sure anymore. in this as well as other threads we discuss the economy on larg scales but at the end of the day its the small people that set the tone as if they wish to liquidate assets that what they will do. and all those huge funds and banks are going to be in problems unless the cnral banks step in again. a very voiltile situation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 SET: 776.49 -15.53 -1.96% but not closed yet.latest: SET: 770.58 -21.44 -2.71% not real time. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 Japan, Hong Kong, China, S Korea, Australia, NZ were up today but markets like Pakistan are: -3.53%, Thailand -3.15%, Indonesia -2.38%, India -3.22%, Singapore -2.82%, Malaysia -0.96%, Taiwan -0.43% Philippines is an exception with +9.82%. ps: these are not the final -fixed- numbers for all of them. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingobongo Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Thai bourse falls 3.5 per cent on profit-taking "Thailand's stock market lost 3.5 per cent in value Tuesday on a wave of profit-taking prompted by rumours of political instability" People who bought yesterday sold today to make a profit, maybe because of rumours that the general election will be postponed," http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/96119.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 21, 2007 Author Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) In some 20 minutes from now (11.00AM WASHINGTON time), Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, will hold a press conference in Washington, after the meeting with Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, a.o. Fed Expects Markets Will Take Days to Digest Discount-Rate Cut http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news For the time being, US stock markets are down, probably awaiting the news, but also due to: U.S. Stocks Drop, Led by Builders; Toll Brothers, Exxon Fall Aug. 21 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks dropped, led by homebuilders, as real-estate foreclosures almost doubled in July and Banc of America Securities LLC said rising borrowing costs will reduce sales. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=ae.THj_lAtmg ps: in an earlier other Bloomberg report it was estimated that there would be about 2 million foreclosures; 2 million houses to be recollected by the mortgage banks/banks... LaoPo Edited August 21, 2007 by LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingobongo Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) Edited August 21, 2007 by bingobongo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Cat got your tongue there, Bingo? Highly unusual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 SET: 784.43 20.03 +2.62% - Wednesday August 22, 2007. All major Asian indexes, (except Japan/Nikkei which ended flat; Topic -0.32%) ended higher. There's still speculation (or 'hope' if you wish) the FED will cut the consumer rate in order to help the mortgage industry but if Bernanke will do that remains a question. Investors strive to read Fed's intentions http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSPEK14997020070822 The mortgage credit squeeze however is far from over: Mortgage Applications Index Fell 5.5% Last Week "Borrowing Costs Higher interest rates are also hurting sales. The average rate on a 30-year fixed loan was 6.49 percent last week, the mortgage bankers group said, compared with 6.45 percent a week earlier. At the current rate, borrowing costs for each $100,000 of a mortgage would be $631.41 a month. The average rate on a 15-year mortgage was unchanged at 6.2 percent from a week ago and was up from 6.05 percent a year ago. The one-year adjustable rate rose to 5.84 percent from 5.81 percent. " " Aegis Mortgage Corp., ranked among the 20 biggest subprime lenders last year, on Aug. 6 cut off applications for new mortgages and canceled funds for pending loans made through Brokers, a spokeswoman for the Houston-based company said. Top prime mortgage lenders such as Wells Fargo & Co. and Wachovia Corp. are raising rates and imposing stricter standards on some of their most creditworthy borrowers as slumping demand in the mortgage bond market chokes off funding. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news note: It seems that even creditworthy borrowers are facing stricter rules and that says something about the impact of the sub prime mortgage crisis.... LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Reuters Before the Bell news mail. Wednesday, August 22, 2007 excerpts: "Talk about the Fed’s mixed messages. Chairman Ben Bernanke is apparently saying the central bank will use all available tools to calm the financial markets, but the president of the Richmond branch is giving the impression that the tool everyone’s waiting for – an interest rate cut – won’t be used except under dire circumstances. For now, Wall Street is choosing to look at the glass as being half-full of the possibility of a rate cut, and stock futures are pointing up." and: "And the housing market is still on the radar screen. Luxury builder Toll Brothers* reported sharply lower profit and said order cancellations had reached their highest rate in more than two decades. Mortgage applications are down for the first time in three weeks on lower demand for both purchase loans and refinancings, an industry group says." * Toll Brothers: "fiscal third-quarter profit fell 85 percent" From: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasVic Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 The -sub prime- mortgage problems are far from over:Capital One Closes GreenPoint Mortgage, Idling 1,900 (jobs lost) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Thornburg Sells Securities to Revive Home Lending, sold $20.5 billion of securities at a discount to pay down debt it couldn't refinance. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news SunTrust Plans to Cut 2,400 Jobs by End of 2008 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=news Countrywide Financial Corp took out advertisements in many newspapers to reassure customers their bank deposits were safe. The largest U.S. mortgage lender has faced a flurry of withdrawals following the company's unexpected August 16 announcement that it tapped an $11.5 billion bank credit line. http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage1 LaoPo I see this as a time of reckoning and good sign of coming back to normal. It is the time to let all the bad loans to rear their heads and be counted. If there is no shocking news affecting the financial system as a whole, such as major runs on banks, or illiquidity in lubricating business sectors, then we should be back to the normalcy by 2008 after the audit of 2007 accounts and improved methods of accountability of hedge funds. Could be...could be...but there's still a lot of <deleted> out there, in the financial system, banks + hedge funds, that we don't know about...yet. LaoPo While I am not certain what "a lot of <deleted> out there" equates to, I definately think that we have not heard about the last of the hedge fund losses in this particular arena. When the other shoe drops and we know the totality of the losses, I would expect that there will be more forced redemtions and therefore more selling in international markets. If the SET can maintain its current level around 770-780 at years end, it will be doing well. In response to Carmine, Hillary is bought and paid for many times over by special intersts and the hedge fund industry while a huge contributor is just one of many! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 The problem in a nutshell.... Brokers match prospective borrowers with lenders who further lure borrowers with exotic mortgages such as “no doc” mortgages, which do not require any evidence of income or savings. so people with no credibility can get loans.... Big banks and wholesale lenders such as HSBC Holdings buy the debt, repackage them and sell them to Wall Street firms. Wall Street banks and investment houses further repackage these loans in mortgage backed securities (MBS) and collateralized debt obligations (CDO). These structured products very often yield high rates of return and are sold to pension funds, hedge funds and institutions. so John Doe puts his money in those high yield promissig institutions and hedge funds and at the end of the day this money ends up buying a house for guy that there is now ay for him to pay it back. hedge funds, pension funds and institutions also invest in markets but as the markets are down they all rush to Asia. and a huge amount of capital is causing Asian stocks to bounce. they also use the above mortages and CDO to get real cheap money from Japan and invest it in higher yielding prospects. then the bubble bursts... and all those John does want to pull out..and the hedge funds and institutions dont have enough money to pay back the clients. First stp they sell off all the stocks in the emerging markets so they can pull back the cash. second step they rush to japan as to position them selves on the Yen carry trade. so they dont loose on the curencies. thus the yen jumps. third step they get a huge gift from the central banks of liquidity that allows them in the short run an attept to convince John doe not pull out if he has not already. the same funds that took our money from pension fiunds and investment funds and that gave loans to people that could not pay back are the same ones who are now getting our money from the central banks who dont want to see the econmy crash to cover up those mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 In response to Carmine, Hillary [Clinton] is bought and paid for many times over by special intersts and the hedge fund industry while a huge contributor is just one of many! Let me guess....you're a Republican..right ? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 The problem in a nutshell.... You mean a Pyramid, upside down ? Yeah, that's shaky.... LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 The problem in a nutshell.... You mean a Pyramid, upside down ? Yeah, that's shaky.... LaoPo yes upside pyramid is a better term.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepyjohn Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 In response to Carmine, Hillary [Clinton] is bought and paid for many times over by special intersts and the hedge fund industry while a huge contributor is just one of many! Let me guess....you're a Republican..right ? LaoPo Michael Moore in Sicko says the former Health Industry reformer gets major contributions from it now. He'll have that fact right. I've just looked it up and she's the second biggest recipient. I hope she turns on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) While I am not certain what "a lot of <deleted> out there" equates to, I definately think that we have not heard about the last of the hedge fund losses in this particular arena. I meant this: Mortgage crisis widens... Read for yourself please, as it's too long of an article to quote, but it's certainly not the most enjoyable news, for sure: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage4 And this: Top banks tap Fed discount window "The four largest U.S. banks, led by Citigroup and Bank of America Corp., took the unusual step of borrowing $2 billion directly from the Federal Reserve..." "Borrowing money directly from the Fed is usually seen as a sign of weakness,...." http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....usbusinessclose "Watch your steps at Thai SET" is still valid I'm afraid... LaoPo Edited August 22, 2007 by LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'm not convinced if this will help the financial problems in the world: Yen May Extend Drop on Speculation BOJ to Keep Rates Unchanged "Aug. 23 (Bloomberg) -- The yen may weaken against the dollar for a second day on speculation the Bank of Japan will hold interest rates steady, giving investors confidence to borrow in Japan and buy riskier assets elsewhere." http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=asia LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasVic Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 In response to Carmine, Hillary [Clinton] is bought and paid for many times over by special intersts and the hedge fund industry while a huge contributor is just one of many! Let me guess....you're a Republican..right ? LaoPo Actually I'm an independent (although I was a Republican for many years), but the truth is the truth no matter what party affiliation one has Hillary is more entrenched in the system (special interests) than any presidential candidate since LBJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 Watch your steps...sorry: again: Asian Stocks May Drop After U.S. Confidence Wanes, Yen Rises Aug. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Asian stocks may drop after U.S. consumer confidence declined the most since 2005 this month, pushing shares there to their biggest losses in three weeks. Rest: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=asia LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLah Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Anyone here looked at the 'Mortgage graveyard' recently? Just Google for it and you will soon find out this is the beginning of the end.... Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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