British Man Arrested in Bangkok Over Defamation Claims by Phuket Restaurant

[Robert Paulson]

Now if he did encourage followers to leave fake reviews that’s full legit. Leaving one bad review should be off limits from thai police encounters though, it should go wo saying

[Kaopad999]

21 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

Actually I agree. Emotions along with being vindictive can make things very bad for that business 

Exactly! 

[Ebumbu]

2 hours ago, RobU said:

The 'tourist' in question was a vindictive bully wanted in his home state in the USA for firing a gun at a bar that had told him to leave because of his atrocious behaviour brandishing a gun at the bar. He was not a tourist he was teaching English in a Thai school. His teaching visa was revoked (probably because of his violent record) and he was deported back to the USA to face investigation. 

 

My point is that sharing your opinion publicly, whether you're a nice person or not, must not be made into a criminal offense. Writing a review, even if vindictive, can't be considered a crime in a civilized society. I don't care about the reviewer's character because it's not relevant to my point. Even if his reviewer was Jesse James, it's his subjective opinion.

Fortunately, karma came swiftly and harshly to the hotel. The regretted their decision to pursue criminal charges against the reviewer. They sabotaged their own business. Streisand effect! Hopefully, the same fate befalls the restaurant who decided to invoke archaic laws that make opinions into crimes. Bad reviews are part of doing business in the internet age. Deal with it. 

If he asked his friends to leave malicious reviews, the correct remedy would be a civil lawsuit, or contacting Google to remove fake reviews. It's their responsibility to ensure reviews are authentic, not the police. 
 

[RobU]

20 hours ago, Ebumbu said:

 

The hotel guy did get arrested for leaving a review. That's literally what he was charged with, defamation. I don't dispute that he was belligerent. Arrest him for belligerence then. But any business is going to get some disruptive customers and unfair reviews. It's the nature of Google and Yelp. There is no way that it's justified to put someone in jail who shared their opinion, whether they're right or wrong. Same goes for this case. A bad review cannot be a crime in anything resembling a free society. It's a backwards, North-Korea style practice that needs to be amended. 

At the end of the day, sending the cops to get this hotel guy did far damage than anything he could have written. After the incident, the hotel was buried with angry, negative reviews. What did they accomplish? Self sabotage. Opinions, even if wrong, should no be crimes. 

JosephBloggs explained it correctly. The violent and dangerous bully needed to be reined in and this was the quickest way to do it resulting in his deportation back to America. The hotel will recover it's reputation since those people who stayed previously know that he lied. He had to be stopped. 

[Marco100]

I didn't understand the dispute ? The Restaurant Owner didn't let him have access to what ? 

The rest is clear . The guy is not smart whatsoever the reason .

[RobU]

1 hour ago, Ebumbu said:

 

My point is that sharing your opinion publicly, whether you're a nice person or not, must not be made into a criminal offense. Writing a review, even if vindictive, can't be considered a crime in a civilized society. I don't care about the reviewer's character because it's not relevant to my point. Even if his reviewer was Jesse James, it's his subjective opinion.

Fortunately, karma came swiftly and harshly to the hotel. The regretted their decision to pursue criminal charges against the reviewer. They sabotaged their own business. Streisand effect! Hopefully, the same fate befalls the restaurant who decided to invoke archaic laws that make opinions into crimes. Bad reviews are part of doing business in the internet age. Deal with it. 

If he asked his friends to leave malicious reviews, the correct remedy would be a civil lawsuit, or contacting Google to remove fake reviews. It's their responsibility to ensure reviews are authentic, not the police. 
 

Again the hotel will not suffer, the warning is that negative reviews may result in prosecution in Thailand it does not mention the hotel in question. Since all the bad reviews he posted were removed their website reputation remains the same as before the incident 

[Ebumbu]

12 minutes ago, RobU said:

Again the hotel will not suffer, the warning is that negative reviews may result in prosecution in Thailand it does not mention the hotel in question. Since all the bad reviews he posted were removed their website reputation remains the same as before the incident 

 

Kim Jung Eun would agree with all  your points. He's a law-and-order kind of guy! 

[Ebumbu]

34 minutes ago, RobU said:

JosephBloggs explained it correctly. The violent and dangerous bully needed to be reined in and this was the quickest way to do it resulting in his deportation back to America. The hotel will recover it's reputation since those people who stayed previously know that he lied. He had to be stopped. 

 

When hotel reviews are criminalized, only criminals will visit hotels! 

A violent-and-dangerous Yelp bully? If not said ironically, it's pretty funny. 

[mark131v]

1 hour ago, RobU said:

JosephBloggs explained it correctly. The violent and dangerous bully needed to be reined in and this was the quickest way to do it resulting in his deportation back to America. The hotel will recover it's reputation since those people who stayed previously know that he lied. He had to be stopped. 

 

The hotel in Koh Chang has not recovered it's reputation in fact it's had to change it's name and myself and possibly others refuse to go there to this day. It will recover one day when everyone forgets or dies but the TripAdvisor warning is there for all to see. Reap the whirlwind bullies who think a negative review needs jail time cos I won't forget any time soon!!

 

I have not seen the restaurant reviews for the OP and have never been there but the one and only place I have been a guest who have gone down this route are on my blacklist for ever. I hope there's others who do know the resteraunt bullies who take similar action as their actions can never be right 

[steven100]

There's more to this story than the British guy is telling ..... 

 

he's p_ssed off about something with the restaurant owner and it's not just the access to his condo.

he's handled it wrongly,  with his friends 1 star reviews only got him arrested,  he's as green as they come ..... 

 

now he'll have to face the music and it could cost him alot ....    not thought out very well lad  !

[mark131v]

1 hour ago, RobU said:

Again the hotel will not suffer, the warning is that negative reviews may result in prosecution in Thailand it does not mention the hotel in question. Since all the bad reviews he posted were removed their website reputation remains the same as before the incident 

 

It does for Seaview Koh Chang the warning is there to this day on TripAdvisor. They have changed the name to Sylvan but it is the same place and like me many know this and take our business elsewhere, reap what you sow!

[mark131v]

42 minutes ago, RobU said:

Again the hotel will not suffer, the warning is that negative reviews may result in prosecution in Thailand it does not mention the hotel in question. Since all the bad reviews he posted were removed their website reputation remains the same as before the incident 

 

 

I hope they do the same as TripAdvisor but in this case maybe they don't have the integrity to stand by their beliefs that good or bad reviews should stand even in corrupt vindictive places 

 

The public should be allowed to decide without the owner resorting to an archaic gagging law requiring the participation of a corrupt police and judiciary to silence any response

 

Hope this goes international as these actions are appalling and any business that resort's to these tactics deserves their time in the spotlight!!

[Hummin]

40 minutes ago, mark131v said:

 

The hotel in Koh Chang has not recovered it's reputation in fact it's had to change it's name and myself and possibly others refuse to go there to this day. It will recover one day when everyone forgets or dies but the TripAdvisor warning is there for all to see. Reap the whirlwind bullies who think a negative review needs jail time cos I won't forget any time soon!!

 

I have not seen the restaurant reviews for the OP and have never been there but the one and only place I have been a guest who have gone down this route are on my blacklist for ever. I hope there's others who do know the resteraunt bullies who take similar action as their actions can never be right 

That guy in Koh Samui was wrong! Period!

 

This English guy is wrong, end of story! 

[mark131v]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

That guy in Koh Samui was wrong! Period!

 

This English guy is wrong, end of story! 

 

No you're wrong, period!

 

Opinions are like <deleted> we all have one but the fact is the hotel in Koh Chang is still losing business to this day even if it's only my business! I hope the Phuket restaurant also suffers for its heavy handed use of a corrupt gagging law 

 

What the hell has Koh Samui got to do with it, wakee wakee!!

[steven100]

19 minutes ago, mark131v said:

 

No you're wrong, period!

 

Opinions are like <deleted> we all have one but the fact is the hotel in Koh Chang is still losing business to this day even if it's only my business! I hope the Phuket restaurant also suffers for its heavy handed use of a corrupt gagging law 

 

What the hell has Koh Samui got to do with it, wakee wakee!!

 

Reviews are welcome ...  they are not ' gagging laws '     if you get a cr_p meal,  or the service is sh_t ... then fine, write an honest opinion review ....   but don't just willy nelly write 1 star reviews because of some underlying issue with the owner, and then get your friends to do the same,  that's not ' gaggling law '    .....  that's being an ass_ole and he deserves to be punished.

[josephbloggs]

23 minutes ago, mark131v said:

 

No you're wrong, period!

 

Opinions are like <deleted> we all have one but the fact is the hotel in Koh Chang is still losing business to this day even if it's only my business! I hope the Phuket restaurant also suffers for its heavy handed use of a corrupt gagging law 

 

What the hell has Koh Samui got to do with it, wakee wakee!!

So imagine you own a business and you're doing well, then one day a violent and aggressive man comes in to your restaurant with his own alcohol and gets angry when the staff inform him there is a 500 baht corkage fee, then he gets more belligerent and the manager comes out and waives the fee to placate him (so he bullied his way to "success").

Then a few days later the man starts leaving nasty reviews saying all the staff in the hotel hate the manager, the hotel is guilty of modern day slavery (none of these "reviews" are about the actual experience). He does it across many sites repeatedly and, I repeat, accuses them of SLAVERY. You contact him and ask him to take them down but he refuses. You ask again but he refuses and keeps going. Meanwhile your business is suffering.

Let me get this straight, you would happily let this go even after trying all civilised forms of communication. You would accept having slavery attached to your hotel for all eternity even though YOU DID NOTHING WRONG and you resolved a bad situation peacefully and sensibly by waiving the fee that applies to everyone else everywhere in the world because you were bullied in to it and other guests were getting disturbed.

 

The hotel doesn't make the laws but they took the only option left to them. They even said at the time they don't agree with the harshness of the law but they had no other recourse to protect their business as this guy was on a one man crusade to bring them down and was refusing to talk.

Don't confuse the people who make the laws with the people trying to protect their business against unjustified and vindictive attacks.
 

[steven100]

While there is a need for defamation as in most countries ......

 

The problem in Thailand is that the defamation laws go too far,  they discriminate the author incorrectly, the courts discriminate the author incorrectly. 

Their logic is not actual logic,   they wrongly punish for the wrong statement. 

 

The justice system here is like a kangaroo loose in the top paddock ... it's not democratic or correct,  and it sure ain't honest. 

[mark131v]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

 

Reviews are welcome ...  they are not ' gagging laws '     if you get a cr_p meal,  or the service is sh_t ... then fine, write an honest opinion review ....   but don't just willy nelly write 1 star reviews because of some underlying issue with the owner, and then get your friends to do the same,  that's not ' gaggling law '    .....  that's being an ass_ole and he deserves to be punished.

 

It is plainly a gagging law

 

It's express purpose is to protect the wealthy nothing more nothing less

 

It is of no use to the poor and it is used extensively to stop free speech if you have a problem with a review take it up with the website and if it is vindictive it will be removed

 

Don't take it up with a corrupt judiciary in order to gag opinions then bleat about it when karma kicks you in the nuts and the outside world takes notice...

[mark131v]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

So imagine you own a business and you're doing well, then one day a violent and aggressive man comes in to your restaurant with his own alcohol and gets angry when the staff inform him there is a 500 baht corkage fee, then he gets more belligerent and the manager comes out and waives the fee to placate him (so he bullied his way to "success").

Then a few days later the man starts leaving nasty reviews saying all the staff in the hotel hate the manager, the hotel is guilty of modern day slavery (none of these "reviews" are about the actual experience). He does it across many sites repeatedly and, I repeat, accuses them of SLAVERY. You contact him and ask him to take them down but he refuses. You ask again but he refuses and keeps going. Meanwhile your business is suffering.

Let me get this straight, you would happily let this go even after trying all civilised forms of communication. You would accept having slavery attached to your hotel for all eternity even though YOU DID NOTHING WRONG and you resolved a bad situation peacefully and sensibly by waiving the fee that applies to everyone else everywhere in the world because you were bullied in to it and other guests were getting disturbed.

 

The hotel doesn't make the laws but they took the only option left to them. They even said at the time they don't agree with the harshness of the law but they had no other recourse to protect their business as this guy was on a one man crusade to bring them down and was refusing to talk.

Don't confuse the people who make the laws with the people trying to protect their business against unjustified and vindictive attacks.
 

 

Waffle, waffle, waffle

 

You wasn't there and neither was I but there's three sides to the story his, theirs and the truth what you don't do is smash a peanut with a sledgehammer and then whine when the world takes notice 

 

They resorted to a third world gagging law in order to silence criticism whether it was valid criticism or not is besides the point 

 

If you run an hospitality business you take the rough with the smooth, prosecution of a customer is the actions of an idiot....

[steven100]

7 minutes ago, mark131v said:

 

It is plainly a gagging law

 

It's express purpose is to protect the wealthy nothing more nothing less

 

It is of no use to the poor and it is used extensively to stop free speech if you have a problem with a review take it up with the website and if it is vindictive it will be removed

 

Don't take it up with a corrupt judiciary in order to gag opinions then bleat about it when karma kicks you in the nuts and the outside world takes notice...

to be honest .... I'm trying to understand your reply.   So are you trying to say the law is wrong ?    are you trying to say what he did is correct  ?     so you think it's fine to have  5 buddies post sh_t reviews about any place they visit and lie about it ?

[steven100]

11 minutes ago, mark131v said:

If you run an hospitality business you take the rough with the smooth, prosecution of a customer is the actions of an idiot....

 

hahaha ....   this is a funny post ...   so you have to accept 5 posts that falsely criticize your business without any repercussions   ?  

 

 

[mark131v]

4 minutes ago, steven100 said:

 

hahaha ....   this is a funny post.

 

Yeah I reckon you would prosecute and yes you would be!

[mark131v]

7 minutes ago, steven100 said:

to be honest .... I'm trying to understand your reply.   So are you trying to say the law is wrong ?    are you trying to say what he did is correct  ?     so you think it's fine to have  5 buddies post sh_t reviews about any place they visit and lie about it ?

 

Reckon if you lay off the sauce it could make more sense....

[mark131v]

Not a gagging law you say, there's a few that disagree:

 

In Thailand, Defamation Lawsuits Can Make Free Speech Costly - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

To Speak Out is Dangerous: Criminalization of Peaceful Expression in Thailand | HRW

 

Thailand_Truth_be_told_decriminalise_defamation-1.pdf (article19.org)

 

Thailand: UN experts condemn use of defamation laws to silence human rights defender Andy Hall | OHCHR

 

Law and Order: Tangled Thai defamation laws | Thaiger (thethaiger.com)

 

3 activists are acquitted of defaming a Thai poultry company accused of violating labor laws | The Independent

 

and for those who have forgotten the backstory to the Koh Chang TripAdvisor episode that goes to show its hard to get the genie back in the bottle when you use corrupt third world gagging laws and then get caught out by the world

 

 Hotel in Thailand That Jailed American Gets New Tripadvisor Label - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[josephbloggs]

56 minutes ago, mark131v said:

 

Waffle, waffle, waffle

 

You wasn't there and neither was I but there's three sides to the story his, theirs and the truth what you don't do is smash a peanut with a sledgehammer and then whine when the world takes notice 

 

Quote

They resorted to a third world gagging law in order to silence criticism whether it was valid criticism or not is besides the point 

If you run an hospitality business you take the rough with the smooth, prosecution of a customer is the actions of an idiot....

Ok, it's not sinking in, I'll try one last time. Let's go step by step.

 

Quote

You wasn't there and neither was I but there's three sides to the story his, theirs and the truth what you don't do is smash a peanut with a sledgehammer and then whine when the world takes notice 

No, I wasn't there. But I have read many reports and they weren't contested. I have also seen his posts. They ended up using a sledgehammer because conversation, negotiation, asking nicely over a period of time didn't work, he just refused to talk and kept posting slander.

 

Quote

They resorted to a third world gagging law in order to silence criticism whether it was valid criticism or not is besides the point 

See above. And you're one of those that's gets a tingle out of calling Thailand a third world country, stands to reason.

 

Quote

f you run an hospitality business you take the rough with the smooth, prosecution of a customer is the actions of an idiot....

Yes, you take a bad review on the chin and try to improve. I am tired of saying it but I left a bad review of this very resort on TripAdvisor. Did I get sledgehammered? Did they sue me? No, they replied and thanked me for it as it was constructive and referred to genuine service issues during my stay that they could use to improve.

You do not simply suck up a dedicated and sustained campaign of slander, accusing your hotel of slavery - no one would.

Got it yet? It wasn't a single bad review, it was repeated campaign of slander and the perpetrator refused all offers of dialogue. At the end of the day the hotel had no other recourse and they do not make make the laws. But glad to hear you would let it go and watch your business go down the drain thanks to a violent bully spamming all review sites with lies.

Read the facts, don't react to headlines and think a single bad review got him in trouble - far from it.

[mark131v]

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ok, it's not sinking in, I'll try one last time. Let's go step by step.

 

No, I wasn't there. But I have read many reports and they weren't contested. I have also seen his posts. They ended up using a sledgehammer because conversation, negotiation, asking nicely over a period of time didn't work, he just refused to talk and kept posting slander.

 

See above. And you're one of those that's gets a tingle out of calling Thailand a third world country, stands to reason.

 

Yes, you take a bad review on the chin and try to improve. I am tired of saying it but I left a bad review of this very resort on TripAdvisor. Did I get sledgehammered? Did they sue me? No, they replied and thanked me for it as it was constructive and referred to genuine service issues during my stay that they could use to improve.

You do not simply suck up a dedicated and sustained campaign of slander, accusing your hotel of slavery - no one would.

Got it yet? It wasn't a single bad review, it was repeated campaign of slander and the perpetrator refused all offers of dialogue. At the end of the day the hotel had no other recourse and they do not make make the laws. But glad to hear you would let it go and watch your business go down the drain thanks to a violent bully spamming all review sites with lies.

Read the facts, don't react to headlines and think a single bad review got him in trouble - far from it.

 

More waffle!!

 

this is all that matters wrt Koh Chang and their heavy handed use of gagging laws to coerce and bully and I know that they have damaged their business and their economy. They should have grown a pair and dealt with it like a grown up instead they damaged their business beyond repair hence having to rebrand

 

Hotel in Thailand That Jailed American Gets New Tripadvisor Label - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[josephbloggs]

Just now, mark131v said:

 

More waffle!!

 

this is all that matters wrt Koh Chang and their heavy handed use of gagging laws to coerce and bully and I know that they have damaged their business and their economy. They should have grown a pair and dealt with it like a grown up instead they damaged their business beyond repair hence having to rebrand

 

Hotel in Thailand That Jailed American Gets New Tripadvisor Label - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Jeez, it's like talking to a brick wall or someone who doesn't know how to read. They made several attempts to talk to him, they offered to meet and discuss, he refused all of them and kept posting. 

 

They made every single effort to deal with it like a grown up. Only the man child (who likes waving guns around in bars) put his fingers in his ears and went "I can't hear you".  So who was refusing to deal with it like a grown up and who was the bully? After all of that and his refusal to speak or deal with it like an adult they took the only recourse left. And they didn't take it lightly.

 

You are absolutely deluded in your defense of him and refusal to even contemplate that he might have actually slandered them (repeatedly) and refused to back down or talk.

But yeah, Thailand third world (tingle tingle) and all that.

[arithai12]

On 5/10/2024 at 12:26 PM, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Quite, love the sarcasm, but sadly in Thailand, if you express your opinion online, even if its true, it can get you in trouble!

Maybe, but in this case it was not just his opinion: if we have to believe the report it was false information about the restaurant posted by him and a number of his friends. Quite a difference.

[RobU]

What people don't seem to understand is that what he did (and what the vicious American did) is libel. Until 2010 libel was a criminal offence in the UK. It remains a criminal offence in Thailand. Everyone has the right to free speech, you are entitled to voice your opinion, no one has the right to tell outright lies about an individual or organisation and mount a campaign of lies against an individual or an organisation, which is what he did against this restaurant and the  vicious American did against the hotel. It's not free speech it's criminal activity 

[Advocate]

If the perpetrator and his associates posted multiple bad reviews without cause this is a clear case of defamation that was intent on causing harm to the business.

 

If the allegations against him are proven, the guy should be prosecuted for defamation and then sued for damages.