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Poll: Do you feel sympathetic to Putin? Did he really have no choice?


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13 hours ago, candide said:

Putin needs a war in order to hide the fact that he's an incompetent leader. Russia's GDP is at the level of Italy's GDP. And it's only because energy prices are currently high! 😆

No matter how incompetent you think Putin might be, he can’t be worse than the previous two and future American presidents.

 

America’s blundering president has emboldened the axis of evil in its quest to destroy the free world

 

No, not from RT News. From British media, the Telegraph 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/15/putin-xi-handed-terrifying-victory-by-gutless-biden/

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

No matter how incompetent you think Putin might be, he can’t be worse than the previous two and future American presidents.

 

America’s blundering president has emboldened the axis of evil in its quest to destroy the free world

 

No, not from RT News. From British media, the Telegraph 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/15/putin-xi-handed-terrifying-victory-by-gutless-biden/

No matter how much you're like to believe it, it's not corroborated by facts.

The current GDP level in Russia is at around the same level as in 2013. Do I need to show the GDP evolution of the U.S. since 2013?

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/RUS/russia/gdp-gross-domestic-product

 

Putin has been unable to develop the economy and the wellbeing of Russian citizen. That's why he needed a war.

Screenshot_20240519_085002_Samsung Internet.jpg

Edited by candide
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18 hours ago, candide said:

No matter how much you're like to believe it, it's not corroborated by facts.

The current GDP level in Russia is at around the same level as in 2013. Do I need to show the GDP evolution of the U.S. since 2013?

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/RUS/russia/gdp-gross-domestic-product

 

Putin has been unable to develop the economy and the wellbeing of Russian citizen. That's why he needed a war.

Screenshot_20240519_085002_Samsung Internet.jpg

GDP is but one measure of how a country’s economy is doing. In many respects, it’s a flawed measurement as it takes into account government spending, interest rates, borrowings, financial services etc. There are plenty of videos by qualified economists explaining this. By this measure, Xi Jin Ping is the most competent leader in the world and most of the European leaders fare among the worst.

 

Leadership is subjective and qualitative. It’s about navigating the challenges faced and how well they are dealt with. It’s about what the population wants and expects and how these are met. It’s about how the leader is viewed on the global stage. It’s about how feared he/she is among his/her adversaries. No one fears a weak opponent. It’s only strong and competent leaders that are feared by their enemies.

 

Imo, Putin ticks a lot of the above boxes, as does XJP.

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The question is, what happens after Putin dies?

 

I watched this film over the weekend, awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KWg2nTYmk8

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

It’s about how feared he/she is among his/her adversaries. No one fears a weak opponent. It’s only strong and competent leaders that are feared by their enemies.

 

This reminds me of the Monty Python skit "Spanish Inquisition".

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32 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

The question is, what happens after Putin dies?

There is an opinion if the Putin dies then there is a chance that the more harsh guy could come to power. Using tactical nukes and mass bombing to Ukrainian cities, with much more deaths. This could lead to growing current war to WW3 and the end of the world. So better to keep soft leader Putn alive 😀.

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16 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

they all will be happy to get all this back and the war will be over.

Everybody in Russian politics understands that this is not going to happen, at least for the next 20-30 years. Before the war there been a knowledge that the right of private property in Europe and US is fundamental. But the West quickly proved that it been a myth, quickly confiscating property by just passport color, not bothering to know are these people have connection to the state or not. Immunization aganist keeping money and properties there will work for some decades at least.

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1 minute ago, JoseThailand said:

Hahaha in Russia they confiscate your assets and put you in jail if you publicly say anything against the war.

West confiscates property not because you said something or did something, but just because of your nationality.

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2 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Euroclear froze the assets of Russian financial institutions, all according to official sanctions. They don't even work with private customers, only institutions. 

That's absolutely right. People been buying European and US assets through brokers. There are dozens of brokers with millions customers accumulating assets, some maybe using infrastructure of bigger brokers. At end the end of this chain was Euroclear, freezing all assets. Whatever mechanism it is, people who have no any connection to state facing their investments to West frozen, and this will work as a vaccine to do not invest there in future.

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4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

GDP is but one measure of how a country’s economy is doing. In many respects, it’s a flawed measurement as it takes into account government spending, interest rates, borrowings, financial services etc. There are plenty of videos by qualified economists explaining this. By this measure, Xi Jin Ping is the most competent leader in the world and most of the European leaders fare among the worst.

 

Leadership is subjective and qualitative. It’s about navigating the challenges faced and how well they are dealt with. It’s about what the population wants and expects and how these are met. It’s about how the leader is viewed on the global stage. It’s about how feared he/she is among his/her adversaries. No one fears a weak opponent. It’s only strong and competent leaders that are feared by their enemies.

 

Imo, Putin ticks a lot of the above boxes, as does XJP.

GDP is not a perfect indicator, but it is the main one. The 'quality' of GDP is also relevant. In this respect, it's also a fail for Russia, as natural resources represent around 60% of its GDP. A bit like some African countries....

 

Of course the population number must also be factored in, as your remark about China indicates. With 144 million inhabitants, Russia is at the same GDP level as Italy with 59 million. And Italy has few natural resources.

 

Considering its natural resources, as well as the quality of its human resources (in particular in S&T), Russia should be like California. Putin is a complete failure.

 

The comparison with China is eloquent, not because of the raw GDP number  but because of its growth (quantitatively and qualitatively). Russia used to more developed than China, and now it's a laggard compared to it. Yes, unlike Putin, the successive Chinese governments have been quite competent in this respect.

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23 minutes ago, candide said:

GDP is not a perfect indicator, but it is the main one. The 'quality' of GDP is also relevant. In this respect, it's also a fail for Russia, as natural resources represent around 60% of its GDP. A bit like some African countries....

 

Of course the population number must also be factored in, as your remark about China indicates. With 144 million inhabitants, Russia is at the same GDP level as Italy with 59 million. And Italy has few natural resources.

 

Considering its natural resources, as well as the quality of its human resources (in particular in S&T), Russia should be like California. Putin is a complete failure.

 

The comparison with China is eloquent, not because of the raw GDP number  but because of its growth (quantitatively and qualitatively). Russia used to more developed than China, and now it's a laggard compared to it. Yes, unlike Putin, the successive Chinese governments have been quite competent in this respect.

Most countries used to be more developed than China. If I’m not mistaken, until the 70’s, China was one of the poorest countries in the world.

 

In my view, China’s meteoric rise in the world is primarily down to its system of governance. One party, promotions based on merit, no outside influence. One does not become a leader in the CPC without having proven themselves over and over again, from grassroots level, XJP included. If China had been a democratic country, it would probably be where India currently is. Developing countries need strong leaders with vision. LKY is one such leader.

 

Putin inherited a very weak Russia from Yeltsin. It’s going to take many more years for Russia to rank among the biggest economies in the world. Considering the fact that the west’s Cold War mentality towards Russia never truly went away, he hasn’t done too bad a job, in my opinion. It’s GDP may not be among the highest but it is universally accepted as one of three superpowers in the world today.

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6 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Most countries used to be more developed than China. If I’m not mistaken, until the 70’s, China was one of the poorest countries in the world.

 

In my view, China’s meteoric rise in the world is primarily down to its system of governance. One party, promotions based on merit, no outside influence. One does not become a leader in the CPC without having proven themselves over and over again, from grassroots level, XJP included. If China had been a democratic country, it would probably be where India currently is. Developing countries need strong leaders with vision. LKY is one such leader.

 

Putin inherited a very weak Russia from Yeltsin. It’s going to take many more years for Russia to rank among the biggest economies in the world. Considering the fact that the west’s Cold War mentality towards Russia never truly went away, he hasn’t done too bad a job, in my opinion. It’s GDP may not be among the highest but it is universally accepted as one of three superpowers in the world today.

Don't forget that its political system was the reason why China was a poor country in the 70s. It started to develop when it became less autocratic, and in particular less dependent from a "leader". Had China been democratic from the start, it would likely be more developed than now (just have a look at what other Chinese people have achived in Taiwan, HK or Singapore).

 

Also don't forget that, while the Chinese have been quite smart in catching-up, they have done so by tapping into the knowledge base created by democratic countries.

 

About Putin, there is no rule which says that a country with plenty of natural resources and well qualified human resources must need 40 years to develop its economy. There is also no rule which says it is not a very bad performance when the current GDP is at the same level as in 2013. Which other country has fared so bad since 2013?

 

Putin is incompetent, he failed to develop the Russian economy, he failed to develop the well-being of its citizen, he even failed to preserve the size of the Russian population.

That's why he needs a war.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

If you keep your money with Russian banks or institutions, you bear all the risks involved

It is not Russian financial institutions who frizzed assets of usual people, it was Euroclear. Assets invested locally through the same financial institutions remain fully accessible and safe. Well, lesson about property rights at West is learned.

Edited by VBer
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4 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

 

You don't have a clue. Euroclear froze the assets of Russian financial institutions, all according to official sanctions. They don't even work with private customers, only institutions. 

 

 

 

 

 "official sanctions" made up as they went along? The trust that was banking is GONE and will never return - it is STEALING, and you know it.

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10 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Do you think things were better before Putin? Seriously? I first went to Russia before Putin, and it was chaos. I went many times after Putin—not perfect, obviously, but ordered and structured. 

 

You think I remember how things were before Putin? That was 24+ years ago, I was a kid

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4 hours ago, candide said:

Don't forget that its political system was the reason why China was a poor country in the 70s. It started to develop when it became less autocratic, and in particular less dependent from a "leader". Had China been democratic from the start, it would likely be more developed than now (just have a look at what other Chinese people have achived in Taiwan, HK or Singapore).

 

Also don't forget that, while the Chinese have been quite smart in catching-up, they have done so by tapping into the knowledge base created by democratic countries.

 

About Putin, there is no rule which says that a country with plenty of natural resources and well qualified human resources must need 40 years to develop its economy. There is also no rule which says it is not a very bad performance when the current GDP is at the same level as in 2013. Which other country has fared so bad since 2013?

 

Putin is incompetent, he failed to develop the Russian economy, he failed to develop the well-being of its citizen, he even failed to preserve the size of the Russian population.

That's why he needs a war.

Let’s agree to disagree. At least we had an intellectual discussion without the usual trolls jumping in with cries of propaganda and apologists and communists (this last description is the favourite of one particular poster who shall remain unnamed).

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