Lawyer reccommendations please for purchase of condo in BKK

[Flow]

Hi everyone,

My daughter (Thai) wants to buy a condo in Bangkok, and I will need a no-nonsense Thai lawyer for this to guide her, check the paperwork etc. 

Does anyone know a good, experienced, trustworthy lawyer who will not overcharge her simply because she has a foreign surname?

Thanks.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

I understand your point.

I would consider looking for an experienced person from the property sector. Because they have experience with this.

How many lawyers specialize in buying private property? I guess not many.

 

As far as I know there are not too many legal issues.

You have a contract that you buy the property and pay amount x. And you have to agree who pays all those other fees (I think at the land office).

 

I hired an ex-property agent who I knew to help me with that. He didn't get any commission from anybody. I found what I wanted to buy, and then I asked him to help me verify if there are any problems. And he explained to me what costs have to be paid. In my case I made an agreement with the seller that I pay a fixed amount x, and the seller pays things which have to be paid. Agreed, done. Not complicated at all.

 

Obviously, a lawyer might help, but I think in terms of expertise and likely cost, there are better alternatives.

[digbeth]

a normal thai person does not engage the service of a lawyer for simple property purchase, they will overcharge on this fact alone

 

imagine the seller, this buyer turns up talking through lawyer... they must be loaded, don't care for money so no need to discount as much on the haggling phase

[DonniePeverley]

Come on lads .. if you are making a serious investment in a property you aren't going to rely on Charlie Beefcake from Soi Bukhao to help you with the paperwork. You will need a qualified legal representative to do this for you. 

[scottiejohn]

16 minutes ago, digbeth said:

a normal thai person does not engage the service of a lawyer for simple property purchase, they will overcharge on this fact alone

 

imagine the seller, this buyer turns up talking through lawyer... they must be loaded, don't care for money so no need to discount as much on the haggling phase

BS!

[scottiejohn]

16 minutes ago, digbeth said:

a normal thai person does not engage the service of a lawyer for simple property purchase, they will overcharge on this fact alone

 

imagine the seller, this buyer turns up talking through lawyer... they must be loaded, don't care for money so no need to discount as much on the haggling phase

Probably the worst financial advice I have ever heard!

[PJ71]

I've bought property as a farang and did not need a lawyer.

 

If you have the full cost, it's not difficult at all.

[digbeth]

For due dillgence,

 

Hire an inspection service to uncover anything wrong in construction, yes, but for other things like if the condo has outstanding charge or unpaid mortgage, it's relatively simple to uncover and they won't be able to go through with the sale anyway

 

even for land, unless well connected to land department, no lawyer's gonna be able to uncover if the deeds was granted illegally and could be invalidated when those in power no longer is in charge years down the line 

 

for most process, the staff and land department would verify that everything is legit, if there's no language barrier and the Thai person is a functioning adult in possession of common sense there's no need for lawyer

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, DonniePeverley said:

Come on lads .. if you are making a serious investment in a property you aren't going to rely on Charlie Beefcake from Soi Bukhao to help you with the paperwork. You will need a qualified legal representative to do this for you. 

Or you just take a free standard contract.

 

I understand that a company would hire a lawyer if they but property for big money.

But a private person buying a condominium? What will the lawyer do?

 

[soi3eddie]

The Thai lawyer I used twice to buy Bangkok condos has retired now. The service was excellent and both land transfers were conducted by them whilst I was away overseas. They were excellent in communication and making sure all paperwork was in order and gave me zero stress. Advise that using a lawyer, for what is your likely biggest financial commitment, is worth the 50,000 Baht or so that it would cost. They will make sure that all titles, fees, Juristic paperwork, bank FEC, Foreign ownership ratio and outstanding service charges etc. are in order and handle it for you. Sorry that I cannot recommend anyone but there must be lots of good lawyers to do this. Mine was at a big law firm in Sathorn.

 

[DonniePeverley]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or you just take a free standard contract.

 

I understand that a company would hire a lawyer if they but property for big money.

But a private person buying a condominium? What will the lawyer do?

 

 

Have you bought property before?

 

How do you know the seller actually owns the property? How do you plan on transfering funds whilst ensuring you get your property? Whose going to register the property? 

 

This isn't renting. 

[OneMoreFarang]

40 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

Have you bought property before?

 

How do you know the seller actually owns the property? How do you plan on transfering funds whilst ensuring you get your property? Whose going to register the property? 

 

This isn't renting. 

 

I bought a "used" condominium about two years ago in Bangkok from a private Thai person.

I asked a friend who worked as property agent in Bangkok for advice.

At the end I transferred money to my bank from outside of Thailand, and then I asked the bank to prepare a check so that I pay the seller.

Then the seller, the condominium manager, and I went together to the land department, they did whatever they do, and maybe an hour later I received the chanote (at least I think that is what it's called) with my name and I gave the check to the seller. We made some pictures to document the moment and that was it.

 

I don't plan to do this again anytime soon and I forgot already half the details. But as far as I remember the land department checks documents before the property changes owners. I.e. if the seller has outstanding payments with the condominium, then the property can't be sold and details like that.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

They will make sure that all titles, fees, Juristic paperwork, bank FEC, Foreign ownership ratio and outstanding service charges etc. are in order and handle it for you.

Are you sure that that is what the lawyer does? (I ask, it's not a statement.)

As far as I know the land department will check a lot of this (or maybe even everything). And if the documents from the condominium, seller and buyer are not ok, then the property won't be transferred. Or not?

[digbeth]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Are you sure that that is what the lawyer does? (I ask, it's not a statement.)

As far as I know the land department will check a lot of this (or maybe even everything). And if the documents from the condominium, seller and buyer are not ok, then the property won't be transferred. Or not?

 

Exactly,

 

For a thai owner sale to another thai person which is what the OP question was about

 

It's the sellers' responsibility to satisfy these documents to the land department to initiate the transfer, not the buyer's 

FET is not needed in this case

 

standard procedure is either handing over cheques/transfer of money at the land office after the official has verified that everything is above board, before the day of mobile banking you might need another person to visit the bank to ensure that the transfer has cleared while both sellers and buyers wait at the land office 

 

 

In case the sellers don't actually have the title they are purported to be selling, they could have forged power of attorney from the actual owner, how is the lawyer going to be able to tell if the power of attorney was legit? forged signature? compared against what? 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

53 minutes ago, digbeth said:

In case the sellers don't actually have the title they are purported to be selling, they could have forged power of attorney from the actual owner, how is the lawyer going to be able to tell if the power of attorney was legit? forged signature? compared against what? 

 

Just in general I think many of us heard and read about many scams in Thailand.

I don't think I ever heard or read about anybody who thought he had bought a condominium and then he/she found out it didn't happen or some other scam. This doesn't mean it can't possibly happen. But I guess if it would happen some of us would have heard or read about it after years in Thailand.

 

Buying something which wasn't built yet is obviously a risk. But that is something different and anybody who does that should be aware of that risk.

 

 

[Celsius]

3 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

Have you bought property before?

 

How do you know the seller actually owns the property? How do you plan on transfering funds whilst ensuring you get your property? Whose going to register the property? 

 

This isn't renting. 

 

What a nonsense post.

 

Everything is done at the land office especially when it comes to a straightforward purchase such as condo.

 

As a matter of fact chances of you getting scammed are higher if you use the lawyer. This has been proven time and time again when lawyer was involved in illegal condo transfer to another party by simply faking a signature.

[digbeth]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Just in general I think many of us heard and read about many scams in Thailand.

I don't think I ever heard or read about anybody who thought he had bought a condominium and then he/she found out it didn't happen or some other scam. This doesn't mean it can't possibly happen. But I guess if it would happen some of us would have heard or read about it after years in Thailand.

 

Buying something which wasn't built yet is obviously a risk. But that is something different and anybody who does that should be aware of that risk.

 

Forged POA happens from times to times to Thais and lands, when it was found out, usually the owner get to keep their land, the buyer lost the money if the scammer can't be found, they'd need to proof that they didn't sign the power of attorney, hence the need of witness on the POA letter, and sure if the forger is organized enough they might get away with it. 

 

Loan sharks that lend against the chanote, they'd make the owner sign a blank POA, in that case they sale might not get reversed 

[digbeth]

4 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

Have you bought property before?

 

How do you know the seller actually owns the property? How do you plan on transfering funds whilst ensuring you get your property? Whose going to register the property? 

 

This isn't renting. 

 

The seller would have in possession of the title deed "Chanote", hopefully with matching name to his ID card, he'll need to provide the letter stating the condo is debt-free is issued by the condo's juristic person, this the land office will look at, ask the both party are satisfied with the sale and once completed the new owner gets 'registered' in the chanote already

 

she can use the chanote and the bill of sale to 'move in' to the blue housebook at the Amphur and change the utilities into her name, any literate Thai adult should be able to do this,  I'm sure a lawyer would happily for a fee, handhold her through the entire process

 

They could 

[CanadaSam]

Excuse the ignorance, but I have always wondered what would happen if an owner borrowed some money from a loan shark against the blue book, and then got a new blue book from the land office and tried to sell the land?

 

I assume the loan shark would not register the debt at the land office, like I assume all the banks do?

[Smokin Joe]

5 minutes ago, CanadaSam said:

Excuse the ignorance, but I have always wondered what would happen if an owner borrowed some money from a loan shark against the blue book, and then got a new blue book from the land office and tried to sell the land?

 

I assume the loan shark would not register the debt at the land office, like I assume all the banks do?

 

A loan shark wouldn't accept something like a blue book that has no monetary value as Collateral. When dealing with a loan shark your life is the Collateral.

[digbeth]

1 hour ago, CanadaSam said:

Excuse the ignorance, but I have always wondered what would happen if an owner borrowed some money from a loan shark against the blue book, and then got a new blue book from the land office and tried to sell the land?

 

I assume the loan shark would not register the debt at the land office, like I assume all the banks do?

 

 

Not the blue book, blue book does not confer ownership, people renting can put their names in blue book

 

loan shars would insist on the Chanote (title deeds) and maybe have the borrower sign power of attorney forms ready to transfer, 

 

[soi3eddie]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

16 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

They will make sure that all titles, fees, Juristic paperwork, bank FEC, Foreign ownership ratio and outstanding service charges etc. are in order and handle it for you.

Are you sure that that is what the lawyer does? (I ask, it's not a statement.)

As far as I know the land department will check a lot of this (or maybe even everything). And if the documents from the condominium, seller and buyer are not ok, then the property won't be transferred. Or not?

 

Yes they did. So when the lawyer went to the land department, all the paperwork was in order and there was no delay or issues. Of course, one could do this themselves. Language might be an issue and it could take two or more trip to the land department (with the seller too) in order to effect the title transfer. I could not be present so the lawyer was acting on my behalf with power of attorney.

 

[Dan SG]

On 5/19/2024 at 9:58 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Just in general I think many of us heard and read about many scams in Thailand.

I don't think I ever heard or read about anybody who thought he had bought a condominium and then he/she found out it didn't happen or some other scam. This doesn't mean it can't possibly happen. But I guess if it would happen some of us would have heard or read about it after years in Thailand.

 

Buying something which wasn't built yet is obviously a risk. But that is something different and anybody who does that should be aware of that risk.

Agree with this.  This is probably the one process in Thailand that its very hard to get scammed on.  If you have a reliable agent she can check the details needed to be checked before sale (e.g. foreign quota) and then it's literally a case of handing over the money at the land office. Its a while since i did it but recall most details and can't really see how you get scammed and unless you're spending tens of millions of baht no one is going to scam over this - most sellers are just happy to find a buyer!