Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

As a rule I try and avoid perjorative terms and stick to my take on the facts on the progress of the war and the likely outcomes. But then I was involved in preparing high level briefs for senior goverment members and they were free to propagandize those for public consumption as they felt fit. Old habits die hard.

My comments were indeed facts and your previous anonymous roles in your career are unverifiable and nothing to do with this topic

[beautifulthailand99]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

My comments were indeed facts and your previous anonymous roles in your career are unverifiable and nothing to do with this topic

We will leave that there.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

We will leave that there.

I will leave it where I want to leave it and that happens to be here:

 

https://x.com/DefenceU/status/1830860042662228302

 

[bubblegum]

I have been thinking again how the Trump people think in circles. Trump is a Putin fan so they support Russia over the Ukraine but there defence for this is weird.

Putin invaded Ukraine to defend the people of Ukraine against the Nazi's. Hummm weird is it not.

What about the Nazi's in the USA, you have plenty. how about the KKK?

How about Canada invades the USA to protect you from these people?

According to your Maga logic you'd be fine with that. 

[Bkk Brian]

The terrorists strike again. 

 

Russia strikes Poltava with ballistic missiles, killing 41, injuring over 180

Russian forces launched two ballistic missiles against the city of Poltava on Sep. 3, killing at least 41 and injuring over 180 people, President Volodymyr Zelensky reported.

Russia hit an educational institution and a neighboring medical facility. The Russian attack partially destroyed the building of the Military Institute of Communications, according to Zelensky.

"The time interval between the alarm and the arrival of the deadly missiles was so short that it caught people during an evacuation to the bomb shelter," the Defense Ministry said.

https://kyivindependent.com/russia-strikes-poltava-with-ballistic-missiles-killing-41-injuring-over-180/

[Seppius]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

The terrorists strike again. 

 

Russia strikes Poltava with ballistic missiles, killing 41, injuring over 180

Russian forces launched two ballistic missiles against the city of Poltava on Sep. 3, killing at least 41 and injuring over 180 people, President Volodymyr Zelensky reported.

Russia hit an educational institution and a neighboring medical facility. The Russian attack partially destroyed the building of the Military Institute of Communications, according to Zelensky.

"The time interval between the alarm and the arrival of the deadly missiles was so short that it caught people during an evacuation to the bomb shelter," the Defense Ministry said.

https://kyivindependent.com/russia-strikes-poltava-with-ballistic-missiles-killing-41-injuring-over-180/

Ain't Putin and the Russian forces nice people!!!!

 

And people on this thread still seem to find excuses for them, they don't care what they hit

[kwonitoy]

 

[beautifulthailand99]

https://www.newstatesman.com/international-content/2024/09/the-russian-ultra-nationalists-defying-putin

The Russian ultra-nationalists defying Putin

Ukraine's Kursk incursion has sparked a wave of attacks on the regime.

 

The nationalists do not represent a majority view, but they are a battle-hardened ideological minority within a largely apathetic society. They have deeply engrained chauvinistic and militaristic views of what their country should be. In the topsy-turvy reality of Russia, where convicted murderers are heroes, the church blesses weapons of mass destruction, and openly Nazi Russian units behead Ukrainian prisoners in the name of denazification, it is perhaps inevitable that the biggest challenge for the Kremlin is not from those who oppose the war but from those who truly believe in it.

[beautifulthailand99]

https://unherd.com/newsroom/russias-pokrovsk-advance-could-be-pivotal-in-the-war/

 

There is nothing that Ukraine can do to stop the inevitable from taking place. The only question in Washington D.C. right now is whether the front line will hold up until the election in November. It may seem deeply cynical that the Americans would allow thousands of deaths of Ukrainian soldiers a week – many of them conscripts – simply to prevent bad optics before an election. But these are the grim realities of Washington’s foreign policy. “It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy,” Henry Kissinger once said. “But to be America’s friend is fatal.” No one seems to want to learn that hard lesson.

Edited September 3 by beautifulthailand99

[beautifulthailand99]

 

[Patong2021]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The terrorists strike again. 

 

Russia strikes Poltava with ballistic missiles, killing 41, injuring over 180

Russian forces launched two ballistic missiles against the city of Poltava on Sep. 3, killing at least 41 and injuring over 180 people, President Volodymyr Zelensky reported.

Russia hit an educational institution and a neighboring medical facility. The Russian attack partially destroyed the building of the Military Institute of Communications, according to Zelensky.

"The time interval between the alarm and the arrival of the deadly missiles was so short that it caught people during an evacuation to the bomb shelter," the Defense Ministry said.

https://kyivindependent.com/russia-strikes-poltava-with-ballistic-missiles-killing-41-injuring-over-180/

 

Intentionally targeting an educational facility filled with students. What a f-ed up nation and military to  do that.

There was a time when responsible people were in the Russian military. Despite their political  views, they were not intent on killing children or starting a nuclear war. Putin has purged and replaced them with yes men. This is why the west must  stay strong. The Russians have no moral boundaries.

[Cameroni]

5 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Intentionally targeting an educational facility filled with students. What a f-ed up nation and military to  do that.

There was a time when responsible people were in the Russian military. Despite their political  views, they were not intent on killing children or starting a nuclear war. Putin has purged and replaced them with yes men. This is why the west must  stay strong. The Russians have no moral boundaries.

It was a predictable progression after the Ukrainians sent terrorists to Kursk who killed civilians and injured children. It was obvious that Russia's war on civilians would intensify as a result. 

[VBer]

20 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Intentionally targeting an educational facility filled with students.

Students? It is not surprising how western media carefully avoiding fact that it was military education facility. The place where soldiers had training before going to frontlines. Only CNN showed journalism, pointing that it was military institution 

Edited September 3 by VBer

[Patong2021]

32 minutes ago, VBer said:

Students? It is not surprising how western media carefully avoiding fact that it was military education facility. The place where soldiers had training before going to frontlines. Only CNN showed journalism, pointing that it was military institution 

 

Only in your imagination is there a western media conspiracy. NBC News which is as mainstream as they come also used the description military educational facility.   Also struck was the nearby hospital, Will you have an excuse for the hospital being hit too?  

 

And if you wish to double down on your justification for the Russian targeting, unless the facility was being used for direct military purposes such as planning and control, a munitions dump or a place from which missiles were launched, then it was not a legitimate target during daytime hours when occupied. It was a multi purpose educational facility.  Ostensibly the primary tenant was the 179th Training Center of Signal Forces for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.   Typically, when these structures are targeted, it is done when there are the fewest occupants. This is how the NATO military treats such targets, but then preservation of  non combatant life is a priority of western militaries.

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

It was a predictable progression after the Ukrainians sent terrorists to Kursk who killed civilians and injured children. It was obvious that Russia's war on civilians would intensify as a result. 

 

Seems that the Russian high command had its excuses  ready to go.

 

[beautifulthailand99]

Considerable anger building in pro-Ukraine sources at the lack of air defences some of it turning on Zelenskiy.Roumers are that a large passing out parade was ongoing and spies gave away the location. His anger is this has happened before and shouldn't be happening again. You simply don't concentrate a large amount of military personnel in a public area.

 

Edited September 3 by beautifulthailand99

[Bkk Brian]

6 hours ago, Cameroni said:

It was a predictable progression after the Ukrainians sent terrorists to Kursk who killed civilians and injured children. It was obvious that Russia's war on civilians would intensify as a result. 

I choose my words carefully and when I mentioned the terrorists strike again there is a reason for that. I can back it up with credible links:

 

European Parliament declares Russia to be a state sponsor of terrorism

Russia is committing war crimes and uses “means of terrorism”

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221118IPR55707/european-parliament-declares-russia-to-be-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism

 

Where is the link to your claims? "Ukrainians sent terrorists to Kursk"

 

Are you claiming that civilians were targeted in Kursk? I thought we went through that already? 

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Considerable anger building in pro-Ukraine sources at the lack of air defences some of it turning on Zelenskiy.Roumers are that a large passing out parade was ongoing and spies gave away the location. His anger is this has happened before and shouldn't be happening again. You simply don't concentrate a large amount of military personnel in a public area.

 

"Roumers are that a large passing out parade was ongoing and spies gave away the location."

 

Careful with those rumours from your sources

 

Earlier reports from Russian military bloggers suggested that cadets were gathered at a military parade being held at the institute, but the ministry confirmed there was no parade happening at the time of the strike.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1m0ylnkylko

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, zmisha said:

Whether Russia can use nuclear weapon or not is another separate question which I would not like to discuss.

You may not wish to discuss it but it is and will remain the elephant in the room.

 

IMO it's the only reason NATO hasn't already put boots inside Ukraine.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, bubblegum said:

I have been thinking again how the Trump people think in circles. Trump is a Putin fan so they support Russia over the Ukraine but there defence for this is weird.

Putin invaded Ukraine to defend the people of Ukraine against the Nazi's. Hummm weird is it not.

What about the Nazi's in the USA, you have plenty. how about the KKK?

How about Canada invades the USA to protect you from these people?

According to your Maga logic you'd be fine with that. 

How about Canada invades the USA to protect you from these people?

 

Canada invading the US is as likely as Belarus invading Russia.

Perhaps try a better comparison next time.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Ukraine Allies Expect Iran to Ship Missiles to Russia Imminently

Deliveries would mark a worrying development, people say
US, NATO have repeatedly warned Tehran against shipments

US, NATO have repeatedly warned Tehran against shipments

 

Seriously, are they kidding? Iran is sanctioned already and I very much doubt the US public will accept some "Gulf of Tonkin" excuse to go to war against Iran.

 

IMO all the US/ NATO do by issuing such statements is showing the world how impotent they are when it comes to Iran. Is NATO even allowed to actually do anything against Iran- it's a long way from the Atlantic?

[VBer]

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Will you have an excuse for the hospital being hit too?  

I can not find any information such as name of hospital, address or number of casualties. The reason why it’s not published in the media either it was another military object either the hospital was imaginary. If I’m not right - please publish more details about this hospital, if it’s normal civilian object - for sure it will be another war crime we have witnessed.

Edited September 3 by VBer

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Seppius said:

Ain't Putin and the Russian forces nice people!!!!

 

And people on this thread still seem to find excuses for them, they don't care what they hit

They hit a military institute. Seems like a legitimate target to me.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/03/europe/ukraine-poltava-russia-attack-intl/index.html

Dozens killed in Russian strike on military educational facility in central Ukraine.

[MicroB]

13 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

There's a lot of value for Iran to have a capable partner use and study their weapons against western AD. They can study Patriot performance by timing a salvo for when they have maximum ISR coverage over the target. It's not easy to get testing opportunities like that - NATO will effectively be paying to help Iran refine their weapons systems. Saudis and Qatar both use Patriots. The point that some don't get here us that the US is reluctant to see their high-tech weaponary used in theatre less the Russians develop AD effective measures against them potentially rendering them useless.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-09-02/ukraine-allies-expect-iran-to-ship-missiles-to-russia-imminently

 

Ukraine Allies Expect Iran to Ship Missiles to Russia Imminently

Deliveries would mark a worrying development, people say
US, NATO have repeatedly warned Tehran against shipments

 

Do you think Russia will share all data with the Mullahs, the very definition of an unreliable ally.

 

Two can play at that game. NATO will be learning a lot more about Russian and Iranian capabilities. Recovered missile parts are yielding information on Iranian and Russian design capabilties, but also the supply chain. The Russians and the Iranians are making extensive use of GLOSNASS; a lot of intel about that is being yielded. NATO has far greater capabilties to make use of gathered intelligence than the other way around.

 

In 1990, the US showed not the slightest hesitation at deploying the then brand new Patriot system to the Middle East, knowing all along potential adversaries were watching. In the mid-90s, they deployed Stealth over Serbia, even losing an aircraft in the process. The US and its Allies are not afraid to deploy the necessary hardware where needed. At the moment, they need Russia to stop fighting. They don't want Russia to collapse. Careful calibration is needed.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You may not wish to discuss it but it is and will remain the elephant in the room.

 

IMO it's the only reason NATO hasn't already put boots inside Ukraine.

Its the elephant in the majority of your posts actually, the nuclear rhetoric.....lol

 

Even the Russian pundits are getting pissed that the west is not taking them seriously.....

 

"Meanwhile in Russia: propagandists were upset that the West is not afraid of Russia's nuclear weapons and pondered how to convince us they aren't bluffing."

 

https://x.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1830713515071488246

 

[zmisha]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's the only reason NATO hasn't already put boots inside Ukraine.

Russians were told that European and American lost armed tourists walk everywhere in Ukraine. Maybe all of them already have Ukrainian passports - not sure about this.

Edited September 3 by zmisha

[MicroB]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

US, NATO have repeatedly warned Tehran against shipments

 

Seriously, are they kidding? Iran is sanctioned already and I very much doubt the US public will accept some "Gulf of Tonkin" excuse to go to war against Iran.

 

IMO all the US/ NATO do by issuing such statements is showing the world how impotent they are when it comes to Iran. Is NATO even allowed to actually do anything against Iran- it's a long way from the Atlantic?

 

What was that stabilisation force called in Afghanistan? You claim to have served in the UK armed forces, but aren't too au fait with NATO. You've forgotten Article 6. Article 6 defines NATO's area of operation, which is everywhere above the Tropic of Cancer.

 

Quote

 

Article 6¹

“For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

• on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France , on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

• on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.”

 

 

 

Orignal 1949 pre-Turkey text

 

Quote

 

Article 6 (1)

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to

include an armed attack:

• on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian

Departments of France (2), on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of

any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

• on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories

or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were

stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or

the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.

 

 

And Iran's location is irrelevant; anyone who attacks territory administered by a NATO member above the Tropic of Cancer would see Article 5 invoked. If Iran attacked the Falklands, well, technically Article 5 wouldn't be invoked.  If Iran attacked Diego Garcia, Article 5 would not be invoked, though thst distinction would be largely academic.  If Iran attacked Akrotiri, that would invoke Article 5 even though Cyprus is not a member of NATO. Have you ever wondered why, in all these years, Iran, or its proxies, have never had a pop at AKT? Actually, not quite true, Gaddafi (via the "Unified Nasserite Organization", which was never heard of again) took a pop in summer 86, after the US bombed Tripoli, attacking the RAF sailing club with a 80mil mortar and Russian Stalin Organ. You've been there, you know how it is there.

 

You surely knew about article 6, especially why the Falklands War didn't turn into a NATO war.

 

Article 6 also explains why it is a misnomer to suggest Ukraine can never join NATO while it has a territorial dispute with Russia (Article 6 would be modifed to specifically exclude that part of Ukraine, and should also exclude parts of Georgia where there is an ongoing border dispute.'s various colonial wars that were happening at the time. Technically, it also excludes Hawaii, but would include Alaska. Did you really think that if the USSR attacked Alaska, that NATO wouldn't be allowed to act because Alaska is nowhere near Atlantic? Nor is Norway for that matter.

 

Article 6 was created so that NATO wouldn't be dragged in to one of the UK's or France.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, MicroB said:

You claim to have served in the UK armed forces, but aren't too au fait with NATO.

Oh dear, oh dear. Given I have never claimed that perhaps you need to review your sources.

I once took a visiting group of Green Jackets skiing, but I doubt that suffices as being in NATO.

 

Just in case "Green Jackets" is confusing, I'm providing a link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Green_Jackets

The Royal Green Jackets (RGJ) was an infantry regiment of the British Army, one of two "large regiments" within the Light Division (the other being The Light Infantry).

 

[MicroB]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

US, NATO have repeatedly warned Tehran against shipments

 

Seriously, are they kidding? Iran is sanctioned already and I very much doubt the US public will accept some "Gulf of Tonkin" excuse to go to war against Iran.

 

IMO all the US/ NATO do by issuing such statements is showing the world how impotent they are when it comes to Iran. Is NATO even allowed to actually do anything against Iran- it's a long way from the Atlantic?

 

If Iran is not bothered by NATO, why does it continue to denounce NATO statements regarding Iran's role in Ukraine. Or are you one of those who believes the Iranian government is not supplying Russia with equipment and military know how.

 

https://en.mfa.ir/portal/newsview/749555/Iran-decries-NATO-statement-on-alleged-role-in-Ukraine-war

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

If Iran is not bothered by NATO, why does it continue to denounce NATO statements regarding Iran's role in Ukraine. Or are you one of those who believes the Iranian government is not supplying Russia with equipment and military know how.

 

https://en.mfa.ir/portal/newsview/749555/Iran-decries-NATO-statement-on-alleged-role-in-Ukraine-war

 

When the west is supplying Ukraine it would seem logical that Russia's allies supply it. Western complaints about that are the height of hypocrisy.

 

The west seems under some misunderstanding that they still rule the world- they don't.

Edited September 4 by thaibeachlovers