Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[Bkk Brian]

26 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Like I said, I don’t know. Obviously both of you know what martial law does, that’s why I’m asking. Otherwise, I would imagine that it merely imposes lots of restrictions on freedom of movement, speech, curfews etc, stuff that I know of when I was living in a country that had declared martial law previously. How does martial law help Ukraine in this instance, other than allowing democracy to be temporarily (for now) suspended?

 

I’ve been to Russia several times, know a few Russians. Not once did I feel my civil liberties nor those of my friends degraded. In fact, it was extremely liberal and open, we were partying in the streets of St. Pete at 3 am in the morning when it was during the midnight sun period. I felt a lot more unsafe in some other European capitals. Strange that.

Like I said, I don’t know. 

 

Yea sure you don't, if your down at that level I suggest going back to school.

 

Martial law in Ukraine is a special legal regime imposed in the event of a threat to national security.

 

https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/en/response-to-war/helpdesk/martial-law/

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Exactly. It’s known as “grift”.

It is how western Europe has been spared a major conflict since WWII via collective defense.

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

How convenient. Declare martial law, extend as necessary, stay on as President indefinitely. Yup, the west sure is fighting for democracy…😂

If you were a US citizen, you might know that Abraham Lincoln did the same during the Civil War.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Like I said, I don’t know. Obviously both of you know what martial law does, that’s why I’m asking. Otherwise, I would imagine that it merely imposes lots of restrictions on freedom of movement, speech, curfews etc, stuff that I know of when I was living in a country that had declared martial law previously. How does martial law help Ukraine in this instance, other than allowing democracy to be temporarily (for now) suspended?

 

I’ve been to Russia several times, know a few Russians. Not once did I feel my civil liberties nor those of my friends degraded. In fact, it was extremely liberal and open, we were partying in the streets of St. Pete at 3 am in the morning when it was during the midnight sun period. I felt a lot more unsafe in some other European capitals. Strange that.

Try protesting the invasion of Ukraine on Russian streets these days. Then you will understand.

[transam]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Like I said, I don’t know. Obviously both of you know what martial law does, that’s why I’m asking. Otherwise, I would imagine that it merely imposes lots of restrictions on freedom of movement, speech, curfews etc, stuff that I know of when I was living in a country that had declared martial law previously. How does martial law help Ukraine in this instance, other than allowing democracy to be temporarily (for now) suspended?

 

I’ve been to Russia several times, know a few Russians. Not once did I feel my civil liberties nor those of my friends degraded. In fact, it was extremely liberal and open, we were partying in the streets of St. Pete at 3 am in the morning when it was during the midnight sun period. I felt a lot more unsafe in some other European capitals. Strange that.

Oh wow, but what about Russia's invasion, for land grab, of a neighbour, carpet shelling civilian residences, killing thousands, Mr.Red........🤔..........?

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 wow we really believe it

The problem with an AI world is that unless we see it ourselves we have no way of knowing if anything digital is real or not. IMO it depends on which side it benefits and which side posted it.

[beautifulthailand99]

5 hours ago, rabas said:

Low flying, low radar crosssection drones currently have some advantage. Also depends on what types of radar are placed where. There will always be a battle between stealthier drones and better anti-drone radar.

 

Just like the new Ukrainian anti-turtle tank warheads. What comes after turtle tanks? 

 

Better and more EW jamming devices which at the moment Russia has the edge - though it would appear Ukraine has an answer to this navigating by sight alone.

 

https://archive.ph/Exwz0

 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

Old people believe in war more than the young people that will have actually have to fight it shock.

 

No wonder, it's usually the younger generations who dies in war while the older ones are sitting at home in safety, or indeed in Thailand enjoying the fruits of a life lived under peace. And then we have the tech, the younger generation gets their information from other sources than the Ukrainian state media which for older folks is the only thing they have and the young regard as being heavily censored and propaganda.

 

That said theycurrently don't want elections and have virtually no beleif in their Parliament.,

 

Far worse are assessments of the Verkhovna Rada: only 13 percent of Ukrainians are even somewhat satisfied with the legislative body. This is far from unusual in Ukrainian politics; approval ratings for the Rada have historically been low over the past decade. The overwhelming dissatisfaction with the current Rada is particularly unsurprising given its growing dysfunction, perhaps best evidenced by the arduous process of passing a new law on mobilization.

 

As it happens, young Ukrainians matter because they, unlike retirees, are the future of the nation

 

https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2024/06/ukraine-public-opinion-russia-war?lang=en

[johng]

That good ole Senator Lindsey Graham  letting the cat out of the bag again  on CBS news

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lindsey-graham-senator-south-carolina-face-the-nation-transcript-06-09-2024/

 

They're sitting on 10 to $12 trillion of critical minerals in- in Ukraine. They could be the richest country in all of Europe. I don't want to give that money and those assets to Putin to share with China. If we help Ukraine now, they can become the best business partner we ever dreamed of, that 10 to $12 trillion of critical mineral assets could be used by Ukraine and the West, not given to Putin and China. This is a very big deal how Ukraine ends. Let's help them win a war we can't afford to lose. Let's find a solution to this war. But they're sitting on a gold mine. To give Putin 10 or $12 trillion for critical minerals that he will share with China is ridiculous.

[beautifulthailand99]

34 minutes ago, johng said:

That good ole Senator Lindsey Graham  letting the cat out of the bag again  on CBS news

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lindsey-graham-senator-south-carolina-face-the-nation-transcript-06-09-2024/

 

They're sitting on 10 to $12 trillion of critical minerals in- in Ukraine. They could be the richest country in all of Europe. I don't want to give that money and those assets to Putin to share with China. If we help Ukraine now, they can become the best business partner we ever dreamed of, that 10 to $12 trillion of critical mineral assets could be used by Ukraine and the West, not given to Putin and China. This is a very big deal how Ukraine ends. Let's help them win a war we can't afford to lose. Let's find a solution to this war. But they're sitting on a gold mine. To give Putin 10 or $12 trillion for critical minerals that he will share with China is ridiculous.

Here's the deal, as Uncle Joe would say, if you aint got jack-sh!t then we ain't interested in your democracy or yoiur human rights.There's no such thing as a free lunch. If Ukraine was to pivot to China they would have the benefit of getting Russia off her back , get massive help with the infrastruture rebuild and wave two fingers at the west that gave them only just enough to continue the fight but not win. Oleksiy Arestovych, a former advicer to Zelenskiy and now a dissident in fear of his life jokes just that.

 

This war plays perfectly into the hands of the long term US strategists. What better way than to use a former USSR country to systematically degrade Mother Russia’s military capabilities, by funding a long and protracted war right on their doorstep. It’s almost as if they goaded Putin into initiating his own tragedy. That would be a ruthless play by America if intentional, but admittedly takes military aged men out of play for a least a generation depletes weaponry and degrades their economy at the same time and destroys Ukraine. It's borderline evil genius but the actions of a bad faith actor.

 

https://unherd.com/2024/01/oleksiy-arestovych-zelenskyys-challenger/

[beautifulthailand99]

https://unherd.com/2024/06/why-ukraines-counteroffensive-failed/

 

It's going to end in a Korean armistice scenario.

 

Experts assess that, at current rates, it would take 757 years to fully demine Ukraine. And while the speed of clearance would increase if the war ended, it is for the foreseeable future an immovable fact on the ground. And in this lies probably any – at least interim – political solution. The model here is North and South Korea, which are technically still at war and separated by a demilitarised zone and hundreds of thousands of mines. In reality, while relations are not rosy, they have not been fighting for decades.

 

It remains politically impermissible for Zelensky to talk about any territorial compromise. Just as no British Prime Minister could agree to give an aggressor Manchester and Surrey, so Zelensky can never publicly accept the loss of Donetsk and Crimea. But you can talk about a “ceasefire” — and those, if agreed with an honest partner (which Putin is not), can last for decades. It is, of course, an imperfect solution. But as things stand, the alternative may well be far worse.

[BobBKK]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The problem with an AI world is that unless we see it ourselves we have no way of knowing if anything digital is real or not. IMO it depends on which side it benefits and which side posted it.

 Correct - almost impossible these days to tell. The truth is often who has the best AI creators. Whatever the truth of these pics and videos, diplomacy or WW3 will end the conflict.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Both USA and UK held elections during WW2 

Martial Law wasn't imposed in the UK during WW2

[rabas]

10 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Both USA and UK held elections during WW2 

 

Neither were occupied by invading armies.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Neither were occupied by invading armies.

 

Most of Ukraine is not occupied by Russia.

[rabas]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Most of Ukraine is not occupied by Russia.

 

Oh, come on. How do you hold free and fair

elections inside occupied territory?  VAG? Vote at gunpoint?

 

[beautifulthailand99]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Most of Ukraine is not occupied by Russia.

 

[rabas]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Free and fair elections, not Soviet style Russian elections. 

 

Not only were many of the reported election numbers mathematically impossible, but there was also no longer much of a choice: All prominent opposition figures had been either murdered, imprisoned, or exiled. Like in Soviet times, the election also welded Russians to their regime by serving as a referendum on Putin’s war against Ukraine. All in all, last weekend’s Soviet-style election sealed Putin’s transformation of post-Communist Russia into a repressive society with many of the features of Soviet totalitarianism.

 

Russia Is Back to the Stalinist Future

[beautifulthailand99]

21 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Free and fair elections, not Soviet style Russian elections. 

 

Not only were many of the reported election numbers mathematically impossible, but there was also no longer much of a choice: All prominent opposition figures had been either murdered, imprisoned, or exiled. Like in Soviet times, the election also welded Russians to their regime by serving as a referendum on Putin’s war against Ukraine. All in all, last weekend’s Soviet-style election sealed Putin’s transformation of post-Communist Russia into a repressive society with many of the features of Soviet totalitarianism.

 

Russia Is Back to the Stalinist Future

Yup he should have faked them better or like China one of main trading partners abandoned them altogether. Which is what Zelenskiy has done but he would say paused. Had the Maidan demonstrators accepted the 2010 election result and not gone out on the streets with violence then maybe none of that would have happened. It was January 6th on steroids. I'll hazard a guess Ukraine was corrupt , is corrupt and will always be corrupt. Hence their main anti-corruption czar and a hero of Maidan has resigned in disgust at the corruption he has seen whose tentalces go to the very top. 

 

https://www.oscepa.org/en/news-a-media/press-releases/press-2010/international-observers-say-ukrainian-election-was-free-and-fair

[beautifulthailand99]

Oops this much vaunted loan has run into difficulties. The problem with the rule of law is just that, the rule of law. That and US war profiteering. AKA we will build the war and make Europe pay.

 

“What Washington is proposing is, 'We [the U.S.] take a loan, Europe takes all the risk, you [Europe] pay the interest, and we [the U.S.] use the money for a U.S.-Ukraine fund,'” said one senior European diplomat. “We might be stupid but we’re not that stupid.”

 

While EU officials are receptive to these concerns, they’re reluctant to agree to something that comes at the expense of their own taxpayers.
As Ukraine struggles to pay for its war effort, the U.S. has been lobbying European allies to look into ways to secure cash for Kyiv.

“If it was the other way around, they would say we are crazy,” said an EU official about the U.S. proposal.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/us-eu-war-in-ukraine-loan-russian-assets-negotiations-g7-us-election-western-support-joe-biden-olaf-scholz-emmanuel-macron/

[transam]

59 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Oops this much vaunted loan has run into difficulties. The problem with the rule of law is just that, the rule of law. That and US war profiteering. AKA we will build the war and make Europe pay.

 

“What Washington is proposing is, 'We [the U.S.] take a loan, Europe takes all the risk, you [Europe] pay the interest, and we [the U.S.] use the money for a U.S.-Ukraine fund,'” said one senior European diplomat. “We might be stupid but we’re not that stupid.”

 

While EU officials are receptive to these concerns, they’re reluctant to agree to something that comes at the expense of their own taxpayers.
As Ukraine struggles to pay for its war effort, the U.S. has been lobbying European allies to look into ways to secure cash for Kyiv.

“If it was the other way around, they would say we are crazy,” said an EU official about the U.S. proposal.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/us-eu-war-in-ukraine-loan-russian-assets-negotiations-g7-us-election-western-support-joe-biden-olaf-scholz-emmanuel-macron/

More nonsense from the Red side.......

You remind me of Lord Haw-Haw......😬

[beautifulthailand99]

24 minutes ago, transam said:

More nonsense from the Red side.......

You remind me of Lord Haw-Haw......😬

Oh yeah Politico is a well known Kremlin mouthpiece. At least your content free micro posts avoid the need for me to work on my answers back. Germany Calling , Germany Calling...

[transam]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Oh yeah Politico is a well known Kremlin mouthpiece. At least your content free micro posts avoid the need for me to work on my answers back. Germany Calling , Germany Calling...

Yeh, riiiiiiight.............For me, your stuff is to be avoided, but needs a reply, a reminder that there are "Reds under the bed" .............🥺

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Like I said, I don’t know. 

 

Yea sure you don't, if your down at that level I suggest going back to school.

 

Martial law in Ukraine is a special legal regime imposed in the event of a threat to national security.

 

https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/en/response-to-war/helpdesk/martial-law/

You’re (not your. I wonder who should go back to junior school) losing it. Even your links don’t exist 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Like I said, I don’t know. 

 

Yea sure you don't, if your down at that level I suggest going back to school.

 

Martial law in Ukraine is a special legal regime imposed in the event of a threat to national security.

 

https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/en/response-to-war/helpdesk/martial-law/

 

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Try protesting the invasion of Ukraine on Russian streets these days. Then you will understand.

 

6 hours ago, transam said:

Oh wow, but what about Russia's invasion, for land grab, of a neighbour, carpet shelling civilian residences, killing thousands, Mr.Red........🤔..........?

Multiple attempts. Yet not one is able to point out what martial law in Ukraine means and how it’s helps. Apart from keeping Z in power of course. 

[Rimmer]

Off topic bickering and replies has been removed

 

[Gweiloman]

3 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

 

 

You can hardly compare the situation in either the US or the UK at the time they held elections during WW2 with the current situation in Ukraine with large parts of the country occupied and ongoing attacks on cities.

You are not going to be popular here if you say that large parts of Ukraine is occupied and that there are ongoing attacks on cities in Ukraine. The only socially accepted posts are those that show Russia losing and being driven back.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 

 

Multiple attempts. Yet not one is able to point out what martial law in Ukraine means and how it’s helps. Apart from keeping Z in power of course. 

Read my post again with link, I cannot read it for you

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

You’re (not your. I wonder who should go back to junior school) losing it. Even your links don’t exist 

 

 

https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/en/response-to-war/helpdesk/martial-law/

 

The link is fine. 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 

 

Multiple attempts. Yet not one is able to point out what martial law in Ukraine means and how it’s helps. Apart from keeping Z in power of course. 

Perhaps it's because we are not and never have been Ukrainian. 

I am more interested in daft questions, I am more interested in the murderous invasion by your chum, that you seem to rejoice over, incredibly sad..............😬