Expats Sticking To Their Own Kind

[Thaddeus]

And that music is enough to make a cat puke.

The last farang music I heard that was so bad was "Tiptoe through the tulips" from Tiny Tim.

Arrrggghhhh ...... I thought that I had finally erased that from my memory.... thanks for making it resurface

I can speak a little German and I used to speak passable French (out of practice now) if the occasion warranted it, I could probably be able to make myself understood in either language, but it would require effort.

If I am out socialising, I expect it to be effortless.

(unless trying to converse in Thai, for which the fun factor is payment enough)

[englishoak]

This is common worldwide. I think it goes back to our basic instincts to mix with others who share similar cultural values and language. Just look at the Thais in other countries and you will see the same thing.

Agreed. Whilst some will integrate and be comfortable with other cultures the vast majority will always stick with whats familiar, comfortable and safe. It's instinct and by far the easiest route,especially when your an adult.

[kmart]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

I have never wanted any farang in my vicinity.

Because, they are illiterate and write blocks of text that is unreadable. Dieseldorf metal sheet workers, tattoed and alcoholics at that.

Just look what the block above looks like. Anyone who has been in school for 3 months would write better.

Bet you throw some great parties, Mr Misanthrope.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm glad to hear at least one opinion that Americans mix more than some other people do. By the way, if that's true, we probably mix more with those who don't call us seppos or septics, and southerners don't like being called Yankees.

However, many of the opinions here center around pub culture. I don't know what percentage of people of other countries drink at all, but according to research, guess what % of Americans drink....less than half of all Americans over 25! The lowest rate of drinking among American adults are...the Asians, at 29%.

So I wonder if it's valid to base our 'findings' on the drunks or the drinkers that we meet down at pub.

[THAILIBAN]

I think one main reason - and this particularly applies for Pattaya - is, that many retired older folks live there. They did not learn foreign Languages when they were young, because the school education was not very much focussed on that these days, other than nowadays.

For them, it is difficult to adopt a new language (be it Thai or English), and probably many of them are just too lazy to do it, which is their good right.

As for me, yes I do like to mix with people of my own nationality once in a while, because even if my English is acceptable, I sometimes feel inferior when between a bigger group of english-native-speakers and often I cant express myself properly due to the fact that my vocabulary is somehow limited.

In the end, it's everybody's very own choice to learn a language or not (though I agree, if living in Thailand for 20 years+, it would indeed make sense to learn at least some basic Thai).

A thing I dont like about some (not all, of course) native-English-speakers is, they like to point their fingers on people who dont speak English well. then if you ask them, which other languages can THEY actually speak, the answer is ZERO usually (or a blank face).

so better dont blame others....

just my 25 Satang of words....

[permanent_disorder]

And that music is enough to make a cat puke.

The last farang music I heard that was so bad was "Tiptoe through the tulips" from Tiny Tim.

that song is older then i am and i love it. thats so far out. camp style at it best.

the most funny experience i had in a thai karaoke when the the man on the microphone was try to sing the elvis song "wooden heart". the one where elvis try to sing in german "muss i denn zum staedtele hinaus". i guess you can imagine that.

and if i would ever get force to sing karaoke there would be only 3 song to choose for me. "tiptoe trough the tulips", try to sing like evis try to sing german and "They are coming to take me away" by Napoleon XIV. yes, cats maybe puke and i am a cat lover but in this case i wouldn't care.

and i have to admit, i try to stick to my own kind. everybody does. but must have nothing to do with national origin, more the age group, education and interests. my circle of friends is very international, though lingua franca is english not many english are among and i don't know any american well. and because we are younger our "culture" is more "club culture" then "pub culture". maybe there lies the difference.

know nothing about pattaya but where i go out in bangkok you can met foreigners of different countries. italian, french, belgium, german, chech, british and so on. as owner, manager or customer and all mix well and have fun together, and is completly understandable if the italian or belgium stick together a little bit more close.

during my years as student it was the same, lot of friends form allover the country or even foreigners and other incomers but not so much with the locals.

and i have to admit too that "places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans" i would not even think about going in there.

[Tywais]

I'm glad to hear at least one opinion that Americans mix more than some other people do. By the way, if that's true, we probably mix more with those who don't call us seppos or septics, and southerners don't like being called Yankees.

This probably sounds cliché, but most of my interaction is based on 'happenstance' and not by going out of my way to meet a particular nationality/culture. I take it one person at a time and rarely will judge the person on nationality (I said rarely, and embarrassedly admit to stereotyping some nationalities due to bad experiences).

Yes, most of my friends are native English speakers - Brits, Aussies, Kiwis. But this has more to do with population density in my area. But also have Chinese, Russian, Japanese, etc. friends. I rarely have the opportunity to meet another American, but admit to some degree of anticipation when I do - this has to do with common cultures as has been mentioned. Having said this, the majority of my friends though are Thai but again due to raw numbers and circumstances.

I'll probably get some flack for the above, but am wearing my Kevlar vest now.

[canuckamuck]

If you are talking pub culture, or leisure time in general, it is no mystery why people gravitate to those whom they have things in common.

It is simply more relaxing to be around people more familiar. At the end of the day, I would rather be at my home then at someone else’s. I like to relax. There’s nothing wrong with cultural interaction, it can be a lot of fun. But it often requires a bit of work, and it is sometimes uncomfortable.

I also agree that for the most part, the Thai entertainment scene just doesn’t work for most westerners. It is not an acquired taste, it is purely cultural. If you did not spend your formative years around it, I doubt you will ever be fond of it. It is hard to have as much fun as the Thais have, when you just don’t get the humor or appreciate the music. They seem to have an easier time appreciating Western entertainment, but it doesn’t replace their own sense of fun.

Being a Canadian, I understand a bit what the American’s are up against when meeting other English speakers. Many times when people find out I am a Canadian, they say something along the lines of, “that’s a relief I thought you were a Bloody Yank”. That kind of environment is the reason you don’t see too many Americans about, or at least they don’t advertise who they are. American’s are responsible for every problem in the world you see, even heart disease and warts, all the proof you need can be found inside the Thai Visa forums. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt. Some of the best people I have ever met are American.

[onzestan]

They did not learn foreign Languages when they were young, because the school education was not very much focussed on that these days, other than nowadays.

Although I agree that this is the case in most non-native english speaking countries, it wasn't in my country i.e. Belgium and in particular in my home town the port of Antwerp. I was born just before the 2nd wold war, and as from my earliest childhood, I and many others have been subjected to hearing foreign languages. At first German of course, but then after the liberation of most of Belgium, and Antwerp being a major port for the allies there was a lot of contact with american, british canadian and other military personnel. Coupled to that Belgium being a small country we as children looked at movies with the original soundtrack with subtitles in dutch and french. So again contact with foreign languages.Also if you wanted to make a career in the maritime sector, you had to learn at least 4 languages.

Having said all that, and to return to topic, I have to admit that having a conversation in my mother tongue comes far more easy than in any other language simply because of the fact that my vocabulary is not in the same league as the native speakers, and I also admit that sometimes I refrain from getting into an argument simply because I know that the other person has the advantage of speaking his own language.

So I think it's normal for a person to seek the company of his own kind, simply to have a touch of normality. That this is not always the case in pubs and cafées is another thing entirely, depends on the amount of alcohol consumed.

My 2 bits

Cheers

onzestan

[cooL_guY_corY]

euros love euros, pints football and mates for everone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[qualtrough]

I wouldn't want to hang out with anyone who would want to hang out with me.

(Apologies to to Groucho Marx and Woody Allen)

[t.s]

i think its just sometimes easier to not have to explain the joke over again,especially if drunk.

i agree that using what you experience in pattaya as a general rule. these are people on holiday, not expats living and working in thailand.

my social group includes thai, japanese, singaporean, australians, brits, french, swedes, spanish americans and i am canadian. I have no canadian freinds in thailand.

Edited July 28, 2007 by t.s

[chevykanteve]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background. English speakers meeting up in places with names like Dave's Bar or the Dogs <deleted>, whilst the German speakers congregate in Alt Heidelberg, Wunderbar or whatever. The more expats there are, the more outspoken this phenomenon gets. In a place like for instance Pattaya there are places that are so ostensibly geared for Bavarians and other south Germans, that nobody from northern Germany would even think about going in there. There will be also places then where only a minor language like Dutch or Danish is spoken. For a long time I lived in one of the major beach resorts, still go there every year. The two biggest groups of expats there are the English speakers and the German speakers, contact between the two groups is very limited. Strange that people move half way around the globe in order to settle in kind of a bubble which is populated by their fellow countrymen, or at least people who speak the same language. There are extreme examples, like the German or Austrian restaurant owner who has been in Thailand 20 years already. He doesn't speak Thai, and he even hardly speaks English. He is speaking German with his customers all the time, and all the communication with the outside world, like government institutions, and even with the staff, is handled by his Thai wife with whom he communicates somehow.

If a German, Austrian or Swiss recognizes someone else as a German speaker, he/she will speak to the other party in German. Just like I would speak to another English-speaker in English. What's so strange about that? How many Thais do you see speaking with Burmese or Cambodians? Birds of a feather, flock together.

[chevykanteve]

I'm glad to hear at least one opinion that Americans mix more than some other people do. By the way, if that's true, we probably mix more with those who don't call us seppos or septics, and southerners don't like being called Yankees.

However, many of the opinions here center around pub culture. I don't know what percentage of people of other countries drink at all, but according to research, guess what % of Americans drink....less than half of all Americans over 25! The lowest rate of drinking among American adults are...the Asians, at 29%.

So I wonder if it's valid to base our 'findings' on the drunks or the drinkers that we meet down at pub.

Karoona Dear Peace Blondie Kup:

Where did you get those stats? Mind you, I'm not criticizing; I'm just questioning.

[tijnebijn]

I think one main reason - and this particularly applies for Pattaya - is, that many retired older folks live there. They did not learn foreign Languages when they were young, because the school education was not very much focussed on that these days, other than nowadays.

For them, it is difficult to adopt a new language (be it Thai or English), and probably many of them are just too lazy to do it, which is their good right.

As for me, yes I do like to mix with people of my own nationality once in a while, because even if my English is acceptable, I sometimes feel inferior when between a bigger group of english-native-speakers and often I cant express myself properly due to the fact that my vocabulary is somehow limited.

In the end, it's everybody's very own choice to learn a language or not (though I agree, if living in Thailand for 20 years+, it would indeed make sense to learn at least some basic Thai).

A thing I dont like about some (not all, of course) native-English-speakers is, they like to point their fingers on people who dont speak English well. then if you ask them, which other languages can THEY actually speak, the answer is ZERO usually (or a blank face).

so better dont blame others....

just my 25 Satang of words....

I agree with you about that , but it says something individually about the persons in question who love to do this , playing school teacher (and the friendly type) , one woman in particular .

[qwertz]

I think a good proportion of farangs (and here I mean Caucasians) have a rudimentary grasp of other European languages besides their own.

If I want to communicate, I'll manage with a mix of languages, even with Thais.

The barrier is more cultural than linguistic.

As a Brit, I have more in common with Indians, Russians and Europeans in general than I'll ever have with Thais.

I have nothing against having a drink in a Thai bar but given the choice, I'll take a farang bar, even if it's run by Finns or Czechs.

What farang on a 3 three weeks package is going to bother his head with learning Thai language and culture.

[PeaceBlondie]

......according to research, guess what % of Americans drink....less than half of all Americans over 25! The lowest rate of drinking among American adults are...the Asians, at 29%.

So I wonder if it's valid to base our 'findings' on the drunks or the drinkers that we meet down at pub.

Karoona Dear Peace Blondie Kup:

Where did you get those stats? Mind you, I'm not criticizing; I'm just questioning.

New York Times Almanac 2004, which quotes the US Dept. of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, from National Household Survey on Drug Abuse 2000.. The almanac adds, "Consumpiton of alcohol constitutes the nation's most commmon drug abuse problem."

[kayo]

Personally, I like mingling and mixing and matching my friends and social life, nonetheless. Those that I trust more, will often be those of British descent.

But I'd also have nights out with my thai friends, guatemalan friends, whereever depending on where I've lived.

When I ran the bar in Guatemala, there'd usually be (the regulars) the one or two english expats, a couple of americans, a couple of canadians, and sevreal guatemalans. The owner was Brazilian. But yeah, I'd generally have more trust in the Brits/

That just might be due to the fact that I can read them better. I know that what I see in their face and in their eyes is something I understand. Some cultures have differences like that.

Take many (Yes, I'm going to generalise) Thai's. I've loved a few and liked a lot. I trust several of the Thai people that I've gotten to know well.

But it's like I was told once.

"Thailand is the land of smiles: In england, you might have a hundred or so facial expressions, including a smile, a frown, a straight face, a trustworthy face... With a Brit you'll generally know what is what.

In thailand, you'll often see a hundred different smiles. a smile for happiness, a smile for a frown, a smile for a straight face, etc...

Until you can learn to decode them, take care."

Dude

I wanna hang in Guatemala with u. I love those dudes and speak fluent espanol

:D

You'd have been more than welcome, but I left last year! Too much fun was had to be healthy.

[gburns57au]

Us Aussies have to knock about together cos the rest of you buggers cant understand us...youse seem to have problems with us calling youse Bastards and wa**ers even when we meant it in a nice way....

I know of one Aussie bar in Pattaya that many nationalities frequent, quite often you will find Aussies, Yanks, Poms, Nordics, Europeans and even the non Thai Asians either having a meal or a drink there...But I really think that they are all just social climbers.....

Edited July 28, 2007 by gburns57au

[qwertz]

^

Who?

The b@stards or the <deleted>?

[gburns57au]

^

Who?

The b@stards or the <deleted>?

The whole bloody tractor and trailer mate......it is well known that everyone wishes they were Aussies.......

[qwertz]

^

Seconded, most of my family is there, I missed the boat.

BTW, about frequenting farang bars, the Aussie bars are among the best in Phuket.

The only problem, they're often too full.

[gburns57au]

^

Seconded, most of my family is there, I missed the boat.

BTW, about frequenting farang bars, the Aussie bars are among the best in Phuket.

The only problem, they're often too full.

we are a weird mob....

Never mind about missing the boat....the Kiwi naval fleet is heading back past your way....just hitch a ride and get them to let you off at Darwin.....you will have to help them row the boat though.....

My apologies to our NZ neighbours....just too hard to resist sometimes....

[fletchsmile]

I observed that in places with a large number of expats, they tend to mainly restrict their socializing to those who share their cultural background.

I can only assume the original post applies to somewhere like Pattaya as a few people have mentioned, and I don't see Pattaya as representative of the broad range of foreigners in Thailand. Or it could perhaps refer to holiday destinations that target foreigners eg Phuket, Samui, hence if foreigners are targeted there'll be more there than usual.

It's certainly not my experience in most of the rest of Thailand. Bangkok is perhaps a case of its own in Thailand, but like many big cities throughout the world, one of the things I like is the variety of people from all different backgrounds.

I think sticking to people who share your own background, class, etc is much more a Thai thing. Western societies tend to be more individual orientated so you mix with whoever you feel like, regardless of where they came from. Thai society is a more collective one, so there are more rigid rules, informal as well as formal, for who you "should" mix with.

Edited July 29, 2007 by fletchthai68

[canadiangirl]

I think a good proportion of farangs (and here I mean Caucasians) have a rudimentary grasp of other European languages besides their own.

If I want to communicate, I'll manage with a mix of languages, even with Thais.

The barrier is more cultural than linguistic.

Second and third languages seem to be more common among Europeans than North Americans, in my experience.

[A_Traveller]

Second and third languages seem to be more common among Europeans than North Americans, in my experience.

Given that those from mainland Europe are more likely to have both travelled and conversed across borders that is not too surprising per se. Always interesting to note that we Brits are less inclined to be polyglots.

However, with the rise of Spanish in the US maybe there will be a growth in linguistic skills there as well, assuming such a facility would be seen beneficially.

Regards

[PeaceBlondie]

Someone can google how many bilingual and polyglot people are in North America, but it would include the French speakers in Canada and many million Hispanics. I met immigrants in Texas from countless countries, including Liberia and Ethiopia, Cambodia, Thailand of course, etc. It's hard to generalize about 300 million souls. Canada is more diverse than the USA.

Baby boomers were told to learn a second language, but few did. Their kids and grandkids are more likely bilingual.

[kmart]

Most mainland Europeans speak at least one second language. Usually German; just in case....

Always amazes me regarding Canada; nearly 40% of the population speak French. And the majority 60% let them????

[canuckamuck]

Most mainland Europeans speak at least one second language. Usually German; just in case....

Always amazes me regarding Canada; nearly 40% of the population speak French. And the majority 60% let them????

It's that politeness issue we have, we are trying to get past it. Maybe some assertiveness training would help.

[roietjimmy]

Most mainland Europeans speak at least one second language. Usually German; just in case....

Always amazes me regarding Canada; nearly 40% of the population speak French. And the majority 60% let them????

Yes, "Amazing Canada. Come visit us, we're accommodating".

We not only allow you to speak French but make sure all government documents are printed in French for your convenience.

Even in our schools where there isn't a French speaking person for 1000 km, we make it mandatory to study French.

But by god when it comes to changing our flag, we can only be pushed so far!!