Is there a "Plan B" if we are declared "not fit to fly"?

[Confuscious]

In a recent thread, there was an old lady who could not leave Thailand because she was declared "not fit to fly".

 

I had a similar experience in 2018, when I was declared "not fit to fly" for 3 months after a surgery and was flagged at all the airports.
Lucky for me, I found an airline which was willing to fly me from my country to Thailand under the condition that I would take the responsability.

 

But what if I find myself in a similar situation in Thailand?
Is there a "Plan B"?

I read on the Internet about a trip from Europe to Thailand by railway.
It would involve a railway trip to Moskou on the Orient Express; Followed by a railway trip from Moskou to China; and finally a railway trip from China to Bangkok.
A friend of mine offered his newly wed Thai wife a trip on the Orient Express from Moskou to Paris and she said that it was a "once in a lifetime experience".

But the problem was that the connection between the railway stations in Moskow and in China had to be made by bus or taxi.
Which could be a bottleneck for older people.

I read ls about a Bus trip from London to Calcutta (?).
It would be fairly easy to arrange a bus/railtrip from Thailand to India.
But the trip was very "bouncing" and would take a long time sitting in a 3rd class bus.
Again, not to advise for older people.

The third plan would be to book a boat cruise (lots of them published on Facebook) and travel to Europe or an other country.
The prices for these cruises are not very expensive and are booked very frequently by retired people.
One of the couples interviewed said that they sold their house and live from cruise to cruise.

What are your thoughts about this?

[Ralf001]

 

 

Who flags you not fit to fly ?

[scubascuba3]

Don't leave if you aren't fit to fly

[CharlieH]

Depends on finances ultimately as do many things.

 

If you had the money, get a cruise ship, plenty of food entertainment round the clock medical care if needed.

 

 

[Confuscious]

  On 6/1/2024 at 9:22 AM, Ralf001 said:

 

 

Who flags you not fit to fly ?

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I don't know who flagged me.
The Hospital?
The Health Care System?
Your guess is as good as mine.
I only know that when I went to the airport to book a flight out of the country, I was on the blacklist of people who were not allowed to book a flight.

[Ralf001]

  On 6/1/2024 at 10:25 AM, Confuscious said:

I don't know who flagged me.
The Hospital?
The Health Care System?
Your guess is as good as mine.
I only know that when I went to the airport to book a flight out of the country, I was on the blacklist of people who were not allowed to book a flight.

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Yeah interesting.

 

Would love to know who flags "not fit to fly" without me knowing.

[Confuscious]

  On 6/1/2024 at 10:23 AM, CharlieH said:

Depends on finances ultimately as do many things.

 

If you had the money, get a cruise ship, plenty of food entertainment round the clock medical care if needed.

 

 

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I don't know about this as I never had this problem.
But I think that a cruise or a trip with the Orient Express will be in the same price range as a 1st class air ticket.

[Confuscious]

  On 6/1/2024 at 10:27 AM, Ralf001 said:

 

Yeah interesting.

 

Would love to know who flags "not fit to fly" without me knowing.

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Not exactly "without me knowing" as it as mentioned CLEARLY on the release not from the hospital.
"Patient is forbidden to fly for a period of 3 months, starting on this date."

 

 

[London Lowf]

A good question - so many self-insurers on here think that, when the brown stuff hits the fan, they can simply jump on a plane and get the required medical attention at home which, if it is the UK is a very dangerous assumption.

 

I was refused boarding a few years ago by easyJet on a Turkey-UK flight at the check-in desk. I was looking rather rough as a neck tumour had returned and I had just had an emergency tracheostomy a week earlier. Luckily, I was otherwise in pretty good shape and managed to talk my way on.

 

 

[Ralf001]

  On 6/1/2024 at 10:50 AM, Confuscious said:

Not exactly "without me knowing" as it as mentioned CLEARLY on the release not from the hospital.
"Patient is forbidden to fly for a period of 3 months, starting on this date."

 

 

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You declared to the airport or did hospital do without your knowledge ?

[Confuscious]

  On 6/1/2024 at 11:30 AM, Ralf001 said:

 

You declared to the airport or did hospital do without your knowledge ?

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I was blacklisted without my knowledge.

But I knew that I was not allowed to fly for 14 weeks.

[george]

Blacklisted at all airlines?? Sounds impossible. Could you elaborate on who did this "blacklisting" and where was it done?

[Yagoda]

thats what insurance and air anmbulances are for

[Confuscious]

  On 6/1/2024 at 12:48 PM, george said:

Blacklisted at all airlines?? Sounds impossible. Could you elaborate on who did this "blacklisting" and where was it done?

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This has nothing to do with the op.

If you are interested in the topic "blacklist"you can start your own thread 

 

 

[Ralf001]

  On 6/1/2024 at 1:25 PM, Confuscious said:

This has nothing to do with the op.

If you are interested in the topic "blacklist"you can start your own thread 

 

 

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That is the airlines blacklist unruly passengers and happens.

AFAIK airlines are not legally allowed to share black lists.

 

The question is, if a person has been deemed not fit to fly by a medical professional... how did they get onto a blicklist unless they did so themselves ?

[anyone]

This "blacklist" really sounds funny. This means that any police officer can blacklist you if you don’t pay a parking fine and you won’t be able to fly out of the country. Or bank just call your airline and you won't fly away. Or the owner of the restaurant where you didn't pay for fries and ran away 🥲

 

Apparently this is an urban legend based on the belief that doctors are omnipotent because they can give life and take it away LOL

[Watawattana]

A slightly different way to travel would be as a passenger on a cargo ship.

 

https://www.martide.com/en/blog/can-passengers-travel-on-cargo-ships

[Confuscious]

  On 6/3/2024 at 6:29 AM, Watawattana said:

A slightly different way to travel would be as a passenger on a cargo ship.

 

https://www.martide.com/en/blog/can-passengers-travel-on-cargo-ships

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I don't know if making a trip which will last a few weeks is a viable choice for an elderly person.
Also the Medical Care on a Cargo ship might not be adequate for an elderly person.
 

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

How do you know you're not also on the "not fit to bus" or "not fit to cruise" lists?

[khunPer]

You country of primary residence is your present home country.

If you travel abroad, you can be eligible for a travel insurance with repatriation.

 

A primary question to ask oneself is also: Am I prepared to die in the country of my primary residence?

If you are elder – or have illness or difficulties, which might makes you not eligible for air transport – you should seriously consider, if you should leave your original home country, if you are not prepared to end your life abroad.

If you don't have some savings beyond a relative small government retirement pension, you should think twice about settling abroad.

 

A good plan B often is that if something goes seriously wrong when living in Thailand, one can return to the home country of birth, but in some cases it might not be possible. Therefore the above question are important to ask oneself and make clear before settling abroad.

[Peterphuket]

  On 6/1/2024 at 10:28 AM, Confuscious said:

I don't know about this as I never had this problem.
But I think that a cruise or a trip with the Orient Express will be in the same price range as a 1st class air ticket.

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There are also cargo ships with passenger accommodation.

Guess it will be a bit cheaper than a first-class ticket.

With arrival in Rotterdam, what more could you want.

[Confuscious]

  On 6/3/2024 at 7:28 AM, khunPer said:

You country of primary residence is your present home country.

If you travel abroad, you can be eligible for a travel insurance with repatriation.

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My residence is in Thailand.

I have left legally my residence in my home country by signing a "Model 8" formular.

A few years ago I was looking for a repatriation insurance.

An insurance in the kind of Europe Assistance.

But the answer from all insurance companies was that I was resident in Thailand and that was the country of repatriation.

  On 6/3/2024 at 7:28 AM, khunPer said:

A primary question to ask oneself is also: Am I prepared to die in the country of my primary residence?

If you are elder – or have illness or difficulties, which might makes you not eligible for air transport – you should seriously consider, if you should leave your original home country, if you are not prepared to end your life abroad.

If you don't have some savings beyond a relative small government retirement pension, you should think twice about settling abroad.

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I don't know for other people, but if I would be diagnosed tomorrow with a life threatening disease, I would be prepared to try to get to my home country and get (almost free) health care and surgery.

 

I had something similar 5 years ago where I was diagnosed with a life threatening AAA. Surgery in Thailand would be not possible with my budget.

I took a flight to my home country and had the surgery performed there.

 

I am not rich, but I have enough savings to spend my final days in a health care home in Europe.

 

  On 6/3/2024 at 7:28 AM, khunPer said:

A good plan B often is that if something goes seriously wrong when living in Thailand, one can return to the home country of birth, but in some cases it might not be possible. Therefore the above question are important to ask oneself and make clear before settling abroad.

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As said before, I had a life threatening disease 5 years ago and I was lucky to get out of the country.

I had a NO-FLY ban by the Thai doctors as my aorta was to much damaged and would not resist the high pressure of a flight.

But what if another life threatening Disease is detected tomorrow?

Would be nice if i could travel to Europe and have the surgery performed there.

[Confuscious]

  On 6/3/2024 at 8:55 AM, Peterphuket said:

There are also cargo ships with passenger accommodation.

Guess it will be a bit cheaper than a first-class ticket.

With arrival in Rotterdam, what more could you want.

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The trip with a cargo ship is indeed an option.

But if you need medical assistance during the trip, I don't know if they will accept you.

[Peterphuket]

  On 6/3/2024 at 9:04 AM, Confuscious said:

The trip with a cargo ship is indeed an option.

But if you need medical assistance during the trip, I don't know if they will accept you.

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However it was said, it is still difficult to travel when you are not healthy enough to travel.

And depending on what ails you, medical care will surely be available on large cargo ships.

[VBF]

  On 6/1/2024 at 9:35 PM, Ralf001 said:

 

That is the airlines blacklist unruly passengers and happens.

AFAIK airlines are not legally allowed to share black lists.

 

The question is, if a person has been deemed not fit to fly by a medical professional... how did they get onto a blicklist unless they did so themselves ?

Expand  

I was wondering that same thing.

 

I "Googled"  for this and found that individual airlines can operate a blacklist - same as any business can refuse customers if they wish. So presumably, if they're in something like the Star Alliance, others in the alliance might know. BUT.... somebody would have to tell them to impose the ban in the first place.  Who?

 

So individual people may be banned by individual airlines.

Also:

Individual airlines may be banned by countries.

Countries can prevent their passport holders from travelling (i.e. the "federal no-fly list" - see link below))

 

Now interestingly, only 2 years ago Delta Airlines asked the US government if they could create a blacklist of passengers.     https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2022/02/10/no-fly-list-delta-ceo/ 

This tells me that there isn't one, at least in the US.

 

I'd love to know.....

[VBF]

  On 6/3/2024 at 8:57 AM, Confuscious said:

My residence is in Thailand.

I have left legally my residence in my home country by signing a "Model 8" formular.

A few years ago I was looking for a repatriation insurance.

An insurance in the kind of Europe Assistance.

But the answer from all insurance companies was that I was resident in Thailand and that was the country of repatriation.

 

I don't know for other people, but if I would be diagnosed tomorrow with a life threatening disease, I would be prepared to try to get to my home country and get (almost free) health care and surgery.

 

I had something similar 5 years ago where I was diagnosed with a life threatening AAA. Surgery in Thailand would be not possible with my budget.

I took a flight to my home country and had the surgery performed there.

 

I am not rich, but I have enough savings to spend my final days in a health care home in Europe.

 

As said before, I had a life threatening disease 5 years ago and I was lucky to get out of the country.

I had a NO-FLY ban by the Thai doctors as my aorta was to much damaged and would not resist the high pressure of a flight.

But what if another life threatening Disease is detected tomorrow?

Would be nice if i could travel to Europe and have the surgery performed there.

Expand  

I presume that the NO-FLY ban issued by the Thai doctors was issued to YOU?

If you hadn't told the airlines, how would they have known? 

 

Realising that to ignore such a ban is VERY  inadvisable, my thought is that it would be your choice whether to obey it or not.

Obviously, any insurance would be invalid but I'm still wondering how any airline would know?

[Confuscious]

  On 6/3/2024 at 9:18 AM, VBF said:

I presume that the NO-FLY ban issued by the Thai doctors was issued to YOU?

If you hadn't told the airlines, how would they have known? 

 

Realising that to ignore such a ban is VERY  inadvisable, my thought is that it would be your choice whether to obey it or not.

Obviously, any insurance would be invalid but I'm still wondering how any airline would know?

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READ FIRST THE TOPPIC BEFORE MAKING STUPID ASSUMPTIONS!!!!!!
The fly ban was made in BELGIUM AFTER THE SURGERY!!!!!
NOT IN THAILAND!!!!!

 

I was recovering from a heavy surgery at the hospital in Belgium.
There were other inquiries planned during my recovery at the hospital such as Gastro-Intestinal  inquiry for possible Morbius-Crohn disease.
After 3 weeks recovery, I wanted to go back to Thailand where I had been living almost 2 decades and had all my friends.
I asked the hospital to prepare my release papers as I wanted to fly back to Thailand.
The hospital prepared the release paper, but clearly marked a NON-FLY ban for 14 weeks.
As the hospital was aware that i was going to fly back to Thailand, I ASSUME that the hospital would have made the Airport security aware about this and would have flagged me (Belgian Travel Airport Security).

 

Anyhow, this whole discussion has nothing to do with the OP.
 

[Homburg]

Obtention of a "Fit to Fly" certificate is guaranteed for all who provide the required B.E. (T.I.T.)

[VBF]

  On 6/3/2024 at 9:41 AM, Confuscious said:

 

READ FIRST THE TOPPIC BEFORE MAKING STUPID ASSUMPTIONS!!!!!!
The fly ban was made in BELGIUM AFTER THE SURGERY!!!!!
NOT IN THAILAND!!!!!

 

I was recovering from a heavy surgery at the hospital in Belgium.
There were other inquiries planned during my recovery at the hospital such as Gastro-Intestinal  inquiry for possible Morbius-Crohn disease.
After 3 weeks recovery, I wanted to go back to Thailand where I had been living almost 2 decades and had all my friends.
I asked the hospital to prepare my release papers as I wanted to fly back to Thailand.
The hospital prepared the release paper, but clearly marked a NON-FLY ban for 14 weeks.
As the hospital was aware that i was going to fly back to Thailand, I ASSUME that the hospital would have made the Airport security aware about this and would have flagged me (Belgian Travel Airport Security).

 

Anyhow, this whole discussion has nothing to do with the OP.
 

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Oh ...beam me up Snotty!

 

So as you ARE the OP - I was correct except it was Belgian doctors rather than Thai. so there, I was incorrect in that I missed your comment "....fly me from my country to Thailand " Apologies for that.

But this whole discussion has everything to do with the OP - you!

 

And  in your OP you did not mention    " I ASSUME that the hospital would have made the Airport security aware about this and would have flagged me (Belgian Travel Airport Security)." which you've only just mentioned.

Now I don't know Belgian law, but my assumption would be that the hospital is not allowed to divulge your personal health status to 3rd parties like airport security let alone airlines. If that was the case how come when you ".........found an airline which was willing to fly me from my country to Thailand under the condition that I would take the responsibility."  then security relented?

 

Before you jump all over me, please be so kind as to explain all the facts clearly - and I hope your health is now better, even if your temper isn't! 🙄

[Lorry]

  On 6/3/2024 at 9:41 AM, Confuscious said:

ASSUME that the hospital would have made the Airport security aware about this and would have flagged me (Belgian Travel Airport Security).

 

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You assume wrong. 

As @VBFpointed out, Belgian privacy laws prohibit divulging the fact that you are unfit to fly to airlines or airport authorities/ airport security (medisch geheim).

Even in Thailand this would not happen.

 

You are free to take any flight you wish and bear the consequences,  which might be

- you die on the flight

- you suffer from a medical emergency on the flight.  If serious  the plane will land at the nearest airport ("diversion"),  e.g. Kabul, you will be sent to a hospital there,  and the other 300 passengers will lose connecting flights. The airline may book them new flights and if they discover that you were unfit to fly they might sue you for the cost of all this (let's say 100,000 €).