Solution To The Penalty Shootout Dilemma

[toasted]

It's been a long summer so far, but at least England haven't failed from the spot this year. But penalty shootouts are generally considered to be an imperfect finish to a game, so how about this as a solution?

Have the penalty shootout before extra time and award the winner half a goal. Then play extra time, during which it is guaranteed that one team will always be losing. That team will have to attack in order to win; the teams will have had a rest; the team that loses the shootout still has a chance to win. It all leads to a scintillating last thirty minutes.

Would this work for you guys?

Edited July 29, 2007 by bronco
fixed typo in title

[canuckamuck]

Sounds good but then they should cut it down to 20 min extra time

[scousemouse]

It's been a long summer so far, but at least England haven't failed from the spot this year. But penalty shootouts are generally considered to be an imperfect finish to a game, so how about this as a solution?

Have the penalty shootout before extra time and award the winner half a goal. Then play extra time, during which it is guaranteed that one team will always be losing. That team will have to attack in order to win; the teams will have had a rest; the team that loses the shootout still has a chance to win. It all leads to a scintillating last thirty minutes.

Would this work for you guys?

They had the same idea with the golden goal and silver goal , and in the end that idea got scrapped.

At the end of the day , though it seems a bit unfair IMO , a penalty shoot-out is a fair way to decide a game if it ends in a stale mate.

The players who take them just need how to hold their bottle a bit more .

[dantilley]

Better to start taking players off, one from each side, every 5 minutes. Maybe cap it when you have only a certain amount of players left - say 4 or 5 on each side, this was you don't get into awkward situations if one of the teams has had a player sent off already and you end up being down to 1 player on one side and no-one on the other.

Could get some interesting tactical decisions - who do you take off first? How do you organise your players when it's 7 against 7? Or 5 against 5 even? Do you risk taking off your goalkeeper when you're down to 5 players to gain a massive outfield advantage? Could be interesting, but possibly too much of a drastic change for FIFA to introduce.

[toasted]

One thing I don't like about that is that it could go on a long time, and in an international competition with matches coming thick and fast, it may well tire a number of players out for the next round, giving the opposition an unfair advantage.

Also, there's no tradition of doing anything like this in the history of the game. I think it's just too radical. And with the possible future Americanisation of the game, I don't think we should set a precedent for drastic rule changes.

[dantilley]

One thing I don't like about that is that it could go on a long time, and in an international competition with matches coming thick and fast, it may well tire a number of players out for the next round, giving the opposition an unfair advantage.

Also, there's no tradition of doing anything like this in the history of the game. I think it's just too radical. And with the possible future Americanisation of the game, I don't think we should set a precedent for drastic rule changes.

I disagree with it taking a long time - if you took a player off every five minutes, you'd be down to 5 a-side after the current extra time period of 30 minutes (or 4 a-side if you also take one player off as soon as extra time begins). 4 or 5 a-side on a full size pitch will last a matter of minutes probably.

You're right, though, that those players in that 5 a-side situation would be absolutely knackered - I hadn't really thought about that. Get two of these matches in a row and you could really finish a player off.

There would need to be loads of experimentation with this I think, which may well rule it out anyway. E.g. you'd probably have to ditch the off-side rule at some stage, but when? 7 players? 8 players? Straight away?

Perhaps too radical but could provide some great excitement if they did it.

[ThaiPauly]

What about tallying up Corner kicks?

It would make a corner as good as a goal !!!!

In extra time of course, you can just see the players celebrating winning a corner LOL

[Pink Mist]

why not let the players use their hands, make forward passes, allow real tackles, make the goal bigger and change the shape of the ball??

[toasted]

Wow Bronco! I assume you're American, and I can see you're a moderator. Are you prepared for the torrent of abuse, largely sarcastic, that could easily descend on you - or has the battle already been fought? Surely as a moderator you shouldn't bait us mere mortals!

[captainstabbin]

Wow Bronco! I assume you're American, and I can see you're a moderator. Are you prepared for the torrent of abuse, largely sarcastic, that could easily descend on you - or has the battle already been fought? Surely as a moderator you shouldn't bait us mere mortals!

Member levels too high?

[JetsetBkk]

why not let the players use their hands, make forward passes, allow real tackles, make the goal bigger and change the shape of the ball??

I totally agree.

One potato, two potato, three potato, four...

[soihok]

In the late seventies and early eighties (maybe) there was a TV game called "Its a knockout". It was fronted by a guy called Stuart Hall who for most of the time was in fits of laughter,,Eddie Waring (ex-rugby commentator..."up and under" fame)also hosted the show.

To cut a long story short.

Why not get both teams to carry water,in the colour of the team,in buckets across various obstacle courses involving large inflatables and scandavanian birds in wet t shirts, without dropping any water. The team that collected the most water wins.....simple innit?

[captainstabbin]

In the late seventies and early eighties (maybe) there was a TV game called "Its a knockout". It was fronted by a guy called Stuart Hall who for most of the time was in fits of laughter,,Eddie Waring (ex-rugby commentator..."up and under" fame)also hosted the show.

To cut a long story short.

Why not get both teams to carry water,in the colour of the team,in buckets across various obstacle courses involving large inflatables and scandavanian birds in wet t shirts, without dropping any water. The team that collected the most water wins.....simple innit?

Yes - they even had a special 'royal' its a knockout, featuring Fergie and some others. This could be revived for special occasions, Cup Final, Charity sheild and the like.

As an aside, Stuart Hall still does match summaries for Radio Five Live!

[mrtoad]

Why don't people just leave the game alone. It really doesn't need any significant rule changes. It's the best and most watched game in the world because it is easy to watch, understand and it is free flowing.

Penalty shoot outs aren't a nice way to loose a game, but is there any less cruel way? No, not that I can see.

[Jockstar]

Wow Bronco! I assume you're American,

No. He's an Aussie.

[mrbojangles]

Better to start taking players off, one from each side, every 5 minutes. Maybe cap it when you have only a certain amount of players left - say 4 or 5 on each side, this was you don't get into awkward situations if one of the teams has had a player sent off already and you end up being down to 1 player on one side and no-one on the other.

I quite like that idea. I know the argument about players getting tired but it's the same for everyone. The answer is simply to score goals in the 90 minutes.

I've always liked the idea about the player taking the ball from the half way line and trying to beat the keeper. I think it would take more skill and nerve.

Why don't people just leave the game alone. It really doesn't need any significant rule changes. It's the best and most watched game in the world because it is easy to watch, understand and it is free flowing.

There is always room to improve it though. Just like i think video playback should be brought in....but that's a topic all of it's own!!

[meemiathai]

People in the football industry do not want to improve it. They do not really want precision. Precision makes fake football more difficult meaning less money gained. Football players nowadays are movie actors with very good football skills.

Just compare tennis matches with football matches you'll see how primitive football rules are.

[Jockstar]

Just compare tennis matches with football matches you'll see how primitive football rules are.

[Pink Mist]

Just compare tennis matches with football matches you'll see how primitive football rules are.

:D

probably "Curling" and "Ring Bowls" need a rule change to keep up with soccer too

[sinom]

why not let the players use their hands, make forward passes, allow real tackles, make the goal bigger and change the shape of the ball??

I totally agree.

One potato, two potato, three potato, four...

Why not keep it really simple and just have "rock , scissors , paper " after 90 mins, best of three of course

[Pink Mist]

why not let the players use their hands, make forward passes, allow real tackles, make the goal bigger and change the shape of the ball??

I totally agree.

One potato, two potato, three potato, four...

Why not keep it really simple and just have "rock , scissors , paper " after 90 mins, best of three of course

sound like a fine idea, if you cant get a result after 90 minutes, then skill isnt playing a factor, so luck should decide

[mrtoad]

People in the football industry do not want to improve it. They do not really want precision. Precision makes fake football more difficult meaning less money gained. Football players nowadays are movie actors with very good football skills.

Just compare tennis matches with football matches you'll see how primitive football rules are.

Yes, Taxi for meemiathai....

[meemiathai]

So are there no people here who think that the football industry is fake? Lots of results are planned?

What do you guys think?

I mean you can almost see those players faking it.

[mrtoad]

So are there no people here who think that the football industry is fake? Lots of results are planned?

What do you guys think?

I mean you can almost see those players faking it.

Maybe in some parts of the world ,and meemiathai, you're not going to like this in Asia paticualrly where it is a real problem

But, on the whole if you are talking about British football, the answear is no. You ask a journeyman pro playing for someone like Mansfield, Torquay or wherever that it's fake, and I think you may find yourself in a bit of a prediciment.

Yes, in the EPL there is diving and gamesmanship, but because of the long, long history of rivalry between the clubs there is more to it than just money. Beleive me, the top players, have no need to take bribes and the lower league players don't either. The cheating is more about gaining a result through winning penalties, getting players sent off etc rather than losing one.

I'm not saying that it hasn't happened or still does, but we are talking about a very, very small minority.

[EastSaxCol]

So are there no people here who think that the football industry is fake? Lots of results are planned?

What do you guys think?

I mean you can almost see those players faking it.

Yes, in the EPL there is diving and gamesmanship, but because of the long, long history of rivalry between the clubs there is more to it than just money.

I wish that this was true. Most players are just in it for the money. Especially at Premiership level. Yes, the rilvary between supporters may rub-off to some extent on the players. But nothing like when most of the players were home grown and knew and respected the traditions of the club.

For all the phoney badge kissing, when it comes down to it, the overwhelming majority are in it for themselves. There's so many examples that I could cite.

I also think that there's a strong argument to be made along the same lines as to why England players find it so hard when they have to down jump off their fat wallets and play with passion for the national side.

Beleive me, the top players, have no need to take bribes and the lower league players don't either. The cheating is more about gaining a result through winning penalties, getting players sent off etc rather than losing one.

I'm not saying that it hasn't happened or still does, but we are talking about a very, very small minority.

I'm sure that bribery doesn't take place any more - they'd have to be extremely stupid to do so so given the obscene wages that most of them are on anyway.

Although I've often wondered about some referees. Or maybe that's all to do with the insidious malaise that's also called big club bias,

[mrtoad]

So are there no people here who think that the football industry is fake? Lots of results are planned?

What do you guys think?

I mean you can almost see those players faking it.

Yes, in the EPL there is diving and gamesmanship, but because of the long, long history of rivalry between the clubs there is more to it than just money.

I wish that this was true. Most players are just in it for the money. Especially at Premiership level. Yes, the rilvary between supporters may rub-off to some extent on the players. But nothing like when most of the players were home grown and knew and respected the traditions of the club.

For all the phoney badge kissing, when it comes down to it, the overwhelming majority are in it for themselves. There's so many examples that I could cite.

I also think that there's a strong argument to be made along the same lines as to why England players find it so hard when they have to down jump off their fat wallets and play with passion for the national side.

Beleive me, the top players, have no need to take bribes and the lower league players don't either. The cheating is more about gaining a result through winning penalties, getting players sent off etc rather than losing one.

I'm not saying that it hasn't happened or still does, but we are talking about a very, very small minority.

I'm sure that bribery doesn't take place any more - they'd have to be extremely stupid to do so so given the obscene wages that most of them are on anyway.

Although I've often wondered about some referees. Or maybe that's all to do with the insidious malaise that's also called big club bias,

Agreed on what you say about the money. My point was more aimed that the attempt by Meemiathai to trroll in the football forum in respect of matches being fixed. His point I beleive was suggesting that the results are all rready agreed, just like in Wrestling and such.

[meemiathai]

Trolling? Me? Thank you. You guys think the thais are stupid and you think I am stupid and childish enough to troll. There is no need to comment if that is what you are capable of. But ok since you are talking to someone else saying that I was trolling.

I am seriously trying to discuss about it. I started playing soccer when I was a kid and had a lot of passion for it. I understand football very well and also do a lot of refereeing. That is why I even care to discuss it here. I am actually very disappointed of the state of the football industry nowadays. It is all about money and gamblings. Do you think it is just as simple as a few players wanting the bribe or not? Or do you ever think of the mafia's involvements? Do you think there are more people to feed than just the players? Maybe it is exactly due to the fact that there are so many gulible people out there that they can actually make it what it is like today. Sorry I just lose interest in sports if it is not about sportsmanship. Which can hardly be find anywhere.

What do you guys think of the world cup final 98? Did the brazilians eat something wrong? All if you guys would say they were playing a normal game?

Edited August 3, 2007 by meemiathai

[mrtoad]

Trolling? Me? Thank you. You guys think the thais are stupid and you think I am stupid and childish enough to troll. There is no need to comment if that is what you are capable of. But ok since you are talking to someone else saying that I was trolling.

I am seriously trying to discuss about it. I started playing soccer when I was a kid and had a lot of passion for it. I understand football very well and also do a lot of refereeing. That is why I even care to discuss it here. I am actually very disappointed of the state of the football industry nowadays. It is all about money and gamblings. Do you think it is just as simple as a few players wanting the bribe or not? Or do you ever think of the mafia's involvements? Do you think there are more people to feed than just the players? Maybe it is exactly due to the fact that there are so many gulible people out there that they can actually make it what it is like today. Sorry I just lose interest in sports if it is not about sportsmanship. Which can hardly be find anywhere.

What do you guys think of the world cup final 98? Did the brazilians eat something wrong? All if you guys would say they were playing a normal game?

Who mentioned Thais and stupidity? I rest my case, this is the topic that you always try to bring out, how farang's bash Thais and look down on them. There is no mention of that in here. This is a Fotball forum. Please play another record.

Edited August 3, 2007 by mrtoad

[meemiathai]

Trolling? Me? Thank you. You guys think the thais are stupid and you think I am stupid and childish enough to troll. There is no need to comment if that is what you are capable of. But ok since you are talking to someone else saying that I was trolling.

I am seriously trying to discuss about it. I started playing soccer when I was a kid and had a lot of passion for it. I understand football very well and also do a lot of refereeing. That is why I even care to discuss it here. I am actually very disappointed of the state of the football industry nowadays. It is all about money and gamblings. Do you think it is just as simple as a few players wanting the bribe or not? Or do you ever think of the mafia's involvements? Do you think there are more people to feed than just the players? Maybe it is exactly due to the fact that there are so many gulible people out there that they can actually make it what it is like today. Sorry I just lose interest in sports if it is not about sportsmanship. Which can hardly be find anywhere.

What do you guys think of the world cup final 98? Did the brazilians eat something wrong? All if you guys would say they were playing a normal game?

Who mentioned Thais and stupidity? I rest my case, this is the topic that you always try to bring out, how farang's bash Thais and look down on them. There is no mention of that in here. This is a Fotball forum. Please play another record.

Ok you don't think the thais are stupid but you at least thought I was stupid, did you not?

Shall we discuss now?

[Jockstar]

Ok guys. Calm down.