Land of Smiles - really?

[ChrisThailand1977]

Hi everyone

 

I know each person's experience of Thailand is different, but Thailand is often called the Land of Smiles. Is that really a fair description nowadays? My feeling is that people will smile as long as they can get money from you. As soon as they've got it, it's over with the friendliness.

 

Thais seem extremely hypocritical to me. I feel like I can't really trust anyone. Even Thai friends say this. Is it true?

 

Generally, the country seems very backward in many ways. The majority of people are hugely exploited, but they just seem to accept it as if it were normal. Perhaps that's the deferent culture of the Thais.

 

I've been here for 3 years, but I'm not happy really. Maybe I've just had a bad experience, which is not representative of the country as a whole.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Chris

[josephbloggs]

3 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

Maybe I've just had a bad experience, which is not representative of the country as a whole.

This.

[ChrisThailand1977]

8 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

This.

 

Fair enough 🤣 

 

I'm probably generalising enormously.

 

I'm just interested in other people's experience.

 

Chris

[n00dle]

21 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

Hi everyone

 

I know each person's experience of Thailand is different, but Thailand is often called the Land of Smiles. Is that really a fair description nowadays? My feeling is that people will smile as long as they can get money from you. As soon as they've got it, it's over with the friendliness.

 

Thais seem extremely hypocritical to me. I feel like I can't really trust anyone. Even Thai friends say this. Is it true?

 

Generally, the country seems very backward in many ways. The majority of people are hugely exploited, but they just seem to accept it as if it were normal. Perhaps that's the deferent culture of the Thais.

 

I've been here for 3 years, but I'm not happy really. Maybe I've just had a bad experience, which is not representative of the country as a whole.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Chris

not sure how land of Smiles is any more spurious a claim than "home of the brave" for the US or the "land of hope and glory" for the UK or any other jingoistic one-liner

 

Edited July 1 by n00dle

[scubascuba3]

of course a lot of it is fake based on money but isn't that the same everywhere, work out where you are going wrong

[ChrisThailand1977]

48 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

of course a lot of it is fake based on money but isn't that the same everywhere, work out where you are going wrong

 

Well, you may be right.

 

My partner and I are German, he is German/Thai. We're 47 and 38, respectively.

 

So far, I've refused to engage with the 'expat community' as I wanted to make friends among Thais. So I even did a course in Thai with a private teacher, who eventually asked me to lend them money. Which I refused to do. So that was that.

 

I find it very hard to make friends. I have tried, but I find Thai people extremely shy or almost afraid. I understand their English is perhaps poor or non-existent (like my Thai) and I don't hold that against anyone. This is certainly not unique to Thailand.

 

People seem to assume I must have a lot of money, which is not the case, and I don't want to buy everything. I'm very much aware of scams and scammers and avoid them successfully.

 

I have a lot of problems with my Thai "in laws". They assume I'm here to finance them - which I also refuse to do. So they ignore me. My partner accepts that, as he doesn't want to finance them either.

 

So it's just the two of us. We knew it would be hard, but I thought (wrongly) that getting in touch with genuine people would be easier. But it isn't.

 

It's fair to say that this can happen anywhere in the world and it's not just Thailand.

 

The words I used in my initial post were not very carefully considered. Obviously not all Thais are this way. But perhaps someone has some ideas to get in touch with other people.

 

What I miss most is intelligent conversation. I'm not a drinker or someone who parties, unfortunately. I like cooking and entertaining, travelling and culture. I also miss public transportation in Europe as I was able to get around more easily. As someone with epilepsy, I don't drive so my partner does that. That's obviously a big drawback, especially in a country like this.

 

My apologies again for the unfortunate choice of words above.

 

I miss many things about my home in Europe but I want to find out what I'm doing wrong here. I'm very unhappy currently.

 

Thanks

Chris

Edited July 1 by ChrisThailand1977

[Yellowtail]

Most everyone I smile at smiles back, except European expats. 

[Robert Paulson]

They smile at walkimg ATMs 

[ChrisThailand1977]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Most everyone I smile at smiles back, except European expats. 

 

I ALWAYS smile back when someone smiles at me 🙂 I kind of hope they'll talk to me but then it's just a fleeting encounter usually

Edited July 1 by ChrisThailand1977

[ChrisThailand1977]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

They smile at walkimg ATMs 

 

Now that's the stereotype I wanted to avoid. I've heard this expression a lot... Do people really see us like this? Or just the bar girls in Pattaya?

 

I have to admit, my partner's family do seem to view me as such...

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

 

I ALWAYS smile back when someone smiles at me 🙂 I kind of hope they'll talk to me but then it's just a fleeting encounter usually

It's not the same thing. Try smiling at them first.

 

 

[ChrisThailand1977]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

It's not the same thing. Try smiling at them first.

 

 

 

I do that too, though I don't want it to seem weird. Do you know what I mean? Or perhaps that's just a Western attitude in my head?

[novacova]

12 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

People seem to assume I must have a lot of money, which is not the case

How about a new nickname…Khun suun baht. Then no one will bother hitting you up for baht 

[ChrisThailand1977]

Just now, novacova said:

How about a new nickname…Khun suun baht. Then no one will bother hitting you up for baht 

 

Mr 0 baht.. well I'm not quite that stingy...

[simon43]

Hmm, I never have a problem with fake smiles.  I bought my breakfast in 7/11 and the serving staff joked with me about always buying the same food.  I chatted with the hotel staff about my plans for the day, smiles all round.  I called up the post office to track down a missing parcel and they were polite and helpful and found the parcel and arranged to send it on to me, free of charge. Later, my shower broke and the hotel repair guy came round and I explained how the bathroom was flooded because I couldn't turn off the shower!  Laughter all round 🙂

 

The common denominator in all these friendly conversations?  They were all Thai people, and I only spoke with them in Thai language.

 

I know that you can get friendly smiles all round when you meet strangers in a foreign country and you have no common language. But imagine that you are Thai, perhaps with basic education, and having to speak in English every day with foreigners who can't be bothered to learn your language. I imagine that it's easier to chat and joke in your mother tongue, rather than a foreign language.

 

"What I miss most is intelligent conversation...." It's entirely possible when you speak in Thai.  Why should you expect Thais to speak fluent English?

 

I'm not saying that you need to be fluent in Thai. But get a teacher, learn to read and write basic Thai, only speak Thai with your Thai friends, even if they speak English or German. It's always easier to make friends when you have a common language 🙂

 

 

[scubascuba3]

30 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

 

Well, you may be right.

 

My partner and I are German, he is German/Thai. We're 47 and 38, respectively.

 

So far, I've refused to engage with the 'expat community' as I wanted to make friends among Thais. So I even did a course in Thai with a private teacher, who eventually asked me to lend them money. Which I refused to do. So that was that.

 

I find it very hard to make friends. I have tried, but I find Thai people extremely shy or almost afraid. I understand their English is perhaps poor or non-existent (like my Thai) and I don't hold that against anyone. This is certainly not unique to Thailand.

 

People seem to assume I must have a lot of money, which is not the case, and I don't want to buy everything. I'm very much aware of scams and scammers and avoid them successfully.

 

I have a lot of problems with my Thai "in laws". They assume I'm here to finance them - which I also refuse to do. So they ignore me. My partner accepts that, as he doesn't want to finance them either.

 

So it's just the two of us. We knew it would be hard, but I thought (wrongly) that getting in touch with genuine people would be easier. But it isn't.

 

It's fair to say that this can happen anywhere in the world and it's not just Thailand.

 

The words I used in my initial post were not very carefully considered. Obviously not all Thais are this way. But perhaps someone has some ideas to get in touch with other people.

 

What I miss most is intelligent conversation. I'm not a drinker or someone who parties, unfortunately. I like cooking and entertaining, travelling and culture. I also miss public transportation in Europe as I was able to get around more easily. As someone with epilepsy, I don't drive so my partner does that. That's obviously a big drawback, especially in a country like this.

 

My apologies again for the unfortunate choice of words above.

 

I miss many things about my home in Europe but I want to find out what I'm doing wrong here. I'm very unhappy currently.

 

Thanks

Chris

Mix more with expats, many nationalities, some you like some you don't same everywhere. Personally i play golf twice a week, cycle in a group 4 times a week, good social interaction which everybody needs, works for me 

[scubascuba3]

22 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

 

I do that too, though I don't want it to seem weird. Do you know what I mean? Or perhaps that's just a Western attitude in my head?

Just smiling isn't enough you need a reason to chat

[ChrisThailand1977]

7 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Hmm, I never have a problem with fake smiles.  I bought my breakfast in 7/11 and the serving staff joked with me about always buying the same food.  I chatted with the hotel staff about my plans for the day, smiles all round.  I called up the post office to track down a missing parcel and they were polite and helpful and found the parcel and arranged to send it on to me, free of charge. Later, my shower broke and the hotel repair guy came round and I explained how the bathroom was flooded because I couldn't turn off the shower!  Laughter all round 🙂

 

The common denominator in all these friendly conversations?  They were all Thai people, and I only spoke with them in Thai language.

 

I know that you can get friendly smiles all round when you meet strangers in a foreign country and you have no common language. But imagine that you are Thai, perhaps with basic education, and having to speak in English every day with foreigners who can't be bothered to learn your language. I imagine that it's easier to chat and joke in your mother tongue, rather than a foreign language.

 

"What I miss most is intelligent conversation...." It's entirely possible when you speak in Thai.  Why should you expect Thais to speak fluent English?

 

I'm not saying that you need to be fluent in Thai. But get a teacher, learn to read and write basic Thai, only speak Thai with your Thai friends, even if they speak English or German. It's always easier to make friends when you have a common language 🙂

 

 

 

You are absolutely right. I really need to learn Thai. And I have been trying, and I can speak a little (basic phrases for everyday use). I've been looking for a school nearby as I can't find a private teacher. I just can't find one that isn't too far from us and which is a genuine school rather than just a place that people attend just to get a visa.

 

When I go out, I can ask simple questions and give simple greetings. At first, I was proud of this. Meanwhile I really think I'm well behind on what I could have achieved so far. Partly, it's laziness having a partner who speaks Thai.

 

I did a course online but I would rather go to a (physical) school where I can also meet people and interact in a more realistic way. I'm a bit old fashioned in that way.

 

Anyhow, thanks for your positive comments and experience. It's nice to read!

[ChrisThailand1977]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Mix more with expats, many nationalities, some you like some you don't same everywhere. Personally i play golf twice a week, cycle in a group 4 times a week, good social interaction which everybody needs, works for me 

 

Actually, I love hiking and have been searching for a hiking group. To no avail so far. But will keep looking.

[stopthecap]

People can be poor, as long as things are cheap.  This is no longer the case. The good days are over, Thais want their slice of the pie too. An Iphone 15 is 50k baht, close to 3 months salary where you can buy it in a week.

 

The wealth gap is widening. The depletion of the middle class. It will just get worse from here in

[rumak]

46 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

What I miss most is intelligent conversation

 

i know what you mean.  I have felt that way since I was 10 years old ........

[Robert Paulson]

36 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

 

Now that's the stereotype I wanted to avoid. I've heard this expression a lot... Do people really see us like this? Or just the bar girls in Pattaya?

 

I have to admit, my partner's family do seem to view me as such...

You’re a walking atm until you prove otherwise and that’s when they either get upset or you get lucky and can still be cordial with them. 

[simon43]

[quote]

...

Partly, it's laziness having a partner who speaks Thai.

...

[/quote]

 

Get your partner to only speak Thai with you!

 

Sure you should have a professional teacher to teach you the grammar rules for reading/writing etc, but you have a teacher right there to improve your spoken Thai.  (Many years ago I initially learnt spoken Thai from my ex-wife who only spoke broken English, and then I progressed with a private teacher for written/reading Thai).

 

Don't expect Thai people to speak English - you're in Thailand, not in England 🙂

Edited July 1 by simon43

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

Hi everyone

 

I know each person's experience of Thailand is different, but Thailand is often called the Land of Smiles. Is that really a fair description nowadays? My feeling is that people will smile as long as they can get money from you. As soon as they've got it, it's over with the friendliness.

 

Thais seem extremely hypocritical to me. I feel like I can't really trust anyone. Even Thai friends say this. Is it true?

 

Generally, the country seems very backward in many ways. The majority of people are hugely exploited, but they just seem to accept it as if it were normal. Perhaps that's the deferent culture of the Thais.

 

I've been here for 3 years, but I'm not happy really. Maybe I've just had a bad experience, which is not representative of the country as a whole.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Chris

Thais smile a lot, although not as much as many will think. I've been here over 6 years, out and about daily, was married to a Thai, mixed with her family, still do as they live close by and the house is part of their 2 farms. Have a Thai girlfriend that speaks good English. The locals around my house going on the daily routes past my house always smile at me, because they all know (small village, everyone knows everyone), that I treated my ex wife very well, including her mom, who's here almost daily. I help some out if I can, not with money but little things, as I still do my ex mother in law.

 

Besides this village, I see smiles by many, and frowns by some. No one can tell whats behind anyone's facial expressions unless you talk to them right then and there, and they trust you enough to fill you in. Some smiles here hide jealousy, some anger and some acceptance. They say there are many different Thai smiles but this is plain BS. No one can tell what another person is thinking and labeling different smiles, even though they all look the same, is ludicrous. A smile can hide hatred, indifference, curiosity, acceptance or want of getting to know you. The only way to know what they are thinking is to get to know them over time. Then you might understand why they smiled at you earlier.

 

I got smiles living in America all the time for the same reasons, besides the ones of jealousy. This is a poor country and many think we're all rich, and want what we have. Some might smile at you and be jealous of what you have, and think sinister thoughts, while others accept you for who you are, especially if you live here and have been fitting in amicably.

 

As far as trusting them, you basically cannot trust most anyone, at least until you get to know them. There are many fine people who would never do you harm, but the ones that will and do, look the same as the rest. That's how they make people their victims.

 

The country is still very backward, and will remain that way indefinitely until certain people are removed from power, and replaced by those that want to help. same as in America, as we have politicians that are narcissistic power hungry people who's only agenda is remaining in power and doing as little as they need to. Thais accept their fates and use Mai Pen Rai as their go to for most anything. It's a real reason things won't change. Complaining is how things that are wrong are changed. Allowing them to remain keeps you down.

[ChrisThailand1977]

7 minutes ago, stopthecap said:

People can be poor, as long as things are cheap.  This is no longer the case. The good days are over, Thais want their slice of the pie too. An Iphone 15 is 50k baht, close to 3 months salary where you can buy it in a week.

 

The wealth gap is widening. The depletion of the middle class. It will just get worse from here in

 

It's understandable that people want things like this if people in countries like Thailand can see how a lot of people in Western countries or indeed South Korea or Japan live.

 

It's a phenomenon happening everywhere isn't it? The cost of living in many parts of Europe and North America, for instance, has risen to astronomical heights. I was recently in Germany and shocked about the prices there, especially renting an apartment and eating out.

 

Thais earn a pittance and are massively in debt - even or especially the so-called middle class. The real poor class are basically slaves. It is shocking.

 

Unfortunately, I think you are right that it will get worse and I wonder how long until the next uprising followed by another violent military coup (in Thailand anyway).

 

In Europe and the US, the far right are likely to get into power in many countries. That's an utterly horrific scenario and one main reason we left Europe 3 years ago. I could see it coming.

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

 

Actually, I love hiking and have been searching for a hiking group. To no avail so far. But will keep looking.

Depends where you live, i know in Pattaya there's one

[Bday Prang]

I doubt there is one single travel book ever written about Thailand that doesn't at least cover the "phenomenon " of the Thai smile and tries to explain just why this place is often referred to as "the land of smiles"      Even if this was not the case, its such a well known cliche that anybody considering coming here for the first time, would have encountered the phrases many times, and a simple google search would be enough to put an end to what might be considered natural curiosity   Yet the OP has been here for years and still can't get his head around this basic facet of Thai society

[Bday Prang]

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

The country is still very backward, and will remain that way indefinitely until certain people are removed from power, and replaced by those that want to help. same as in America, as we have politicians that are narcissistic power hungry people who's only agenda is remaining in power and doing as little as they need to. Thais accept their fates and use Mai Pen Rai as their go to for most anything. It's a real reason things won't change. Complaining is how things that are wrong are changed. Allowing them to remain keeps you down.

Oh dear another one who would prefer Thailand to resemble their country of origin more closely,   The country of origin which they chose to leave in order to live here.

[Bday Prang]

13 minutes ago, ChrisThailand1977 said:

In Europe and the US, the far right are likely to get into power in many countries. That's an utterly horrific scenario and one main reason we left Europe 3 years ago. I could see it coming.

"The Far Right"        "utterly horrific"    You left because of this 3 years ago, were you fearful of ethnic cleansing?

[fredwiggy]

5 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Oh dear another one who would prefer Thailand to resemble their country of origin more closely,   The country of origin which they chose to leave in order to live here.

No, just one who understands what it takes to have a population have more freedom. I fully understand Thailand is different than all other countries besides those bordering it. I knew how it was years before I moved here. I didn't see all of this come to life until I spent years here, verifying what I heard before. Thailand has many nice things, but like all other places, it has those that keep the population down, and that's not freedom. I'm moving back to America for many reasons, some of which have nothing to do with Thailand but that it doesn't have what I need, and it's also a better place for girls, and women, to live.