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Posted
3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

If Russia didn’t send their troops, Ukraine need not defend. No casualties and no need for peace negotiation. Elementary Dear Watson. 

Again, yes, but...... what is your point? We have to deal with the situation as it is, and try to find a workable solution. Not just wish for a different way things started.


I don't see an outcome that can both restore Ukranian terrirorial sovereignty and not result in a wider, if not global, war. 

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Posted
8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Russia is bombarding hospitals and apartments in Ukraine with missiles as I post this, and claiming they are not targeting civilians. All LIES.

and had the west not seized the opportunity to bleed Russia without losing any western lives, Russia would not be bombarding hospitals and apartments in Ukraine with missiles. Plenty of blame to go around for this IMO un necessary war.

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Posted
8 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

It makes sense that a guy who thinks NATO started Russia's war thinks Venezuela is "under attack" by no less than "CANCER USA"!  It was Venezuela that moved to reduce ties with the United States, not the other way around; Venezuela that appropriated U.S. property, not the other way around; Venezuela that took U.S. citizens as political prisoners, not the other way around.

 

Weird how hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans have moved to "CANCER USA" rather than stay in noble Venezuela.

 

Supporting both Putin AND Maduro?  You're a winner, Frank!  Never change.

i didnt say nato started the war, but Putin warned years ago about nato encroachment and he is totally justified to not want us..sorry.. nato on his border.... you remember the cuban missile crisis right, how the yanks spat the dummy over that..well it's the same thing.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

In the current Russia scenario, the "peace" crowd always supports the Russian side.  And they always deny being pro-Russian.  I want peace too, but I also recognize that rewarding Russia now incentivizes Russia to invade Ukraine/other countries (as it repeatedly has under Putin) again.

 

If you really wanted peace and weren't pro-Russian, you would want 1) Russia to lose 2) you would want Russia to pay a MAXIMUM, CRIPPLING  price either in a loss or an eventual negotiated settlement if they do get to keep some of their ill-gotten gains and 3) you wouldn't hate Zelensky the way it seems you do.

so the only way for peace is the western way, great negotiation skills!

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Posted
1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

In the current Russia scenario, the "peace" crowd always supports the Russian side.  And they always deny being pro-Russian.  I want peace too, but I also recognize that rewarding Russia now incentivizes Russia to invade Ukraine/other countries (as it repeatedly has under Putin) again.

 

If you really wanted peace and weren't pro-Russian, you would want 1) Russia to lose 2) you would want Russia to pay a MAXIMUM, CRIPPLING  price either in a loss or an eventual negotiated settlement if they do get to keep some of their ill-gotten gains and 3) you wouldn't hate Zelensky the way it seems you do.

Rather simplistic. I don't think anyone wants Russia to win, or doesn't blame Russia for starting the war. Those are needless statements. The only real question to answer is "how to end the war". 

 

My answer is to cut a deal that prevents NATO direct involvement and therfore prevents WW3. A big problem is that many NATO countries have allowed their militaries to atrophy. Germany for example, can field less than 150 main battle tanks, and the same number of combat aircraft. So a land war may not be the answer.

 

Plus, the fantasy of crippling Russia is attractive, but.... that would leave a power vacuum that China would love to exploit. Better to keep Russia at least marginally strong and able to be a counterweight to China in Asia, instead of a crippled (and therefore dangerous) former power.

 

As for Zelensky, I confess that I do not like him. He is an autocrat, his country is not free, corruption is rife. The concept that fighting for Ukraine is "fighting for freedom" or "fighting for democracy" is both hilarious and sad. 

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Posted
19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I can see a stalemate for quite some time, Ukraine with modern weapons and Russia with half to 1 million bodies, using human wave tactics.They can hardly be called soldiers, given their poor equipment and perfunctory training. They don't even have a NCO system.

 

I can also see Russia in a death spiral, the combination of sanctions, declining demographics, absence of foreign capital, flight of Western technology and a collapsed education system will see to that. Not to mention its internal passenger aircraft routes - fairly important in a country as large as Russia - has half the aircraft it had, and the fleet is still shrinking. Check out the interest rates being offered by Russian banks on deposits.

 

Of course, this is dismissed by Kremlin apologists as propaganda. Unfortunately for them, it is also fact.

 

The decline of Russia actually started way back in the sixties. The Americans outpaced them in terms of computer development by a factor of about 10:1, and by the nineties the Russians were so far behind it was no longer possible to close the gap.

 

Putin may have got away with Crimea. Now many Russians will pay for his kleptomania for decades, if not centuries.

 

If someone was invading your country, killing your civilians and kidnapping your children, what would your response be? Do you think you can negotiate with a crocodile when it has its jaws latched onto your arm?

 

You must have a good imagination, IMO.

 

BTW in this situation stalemate is more harmful for Ukraine than Russia. Every man of the age is going to be terrified of the conscription police, and labour is going to be critically short with so many men in the front lines.

Meanwhile reconstruction can't start if it's just going to get blown up again.

 

If someone was invading your country, killing your civilians and kidnapping your children, what would your response be?

Given i'm ex military likely I'd be called up, and in any event I'd fight. However, I'm not Ukrainian, don't live in Ukraine, never been there, don't know any Ukrainians, so it's not my fight. Let the Ukrainians die for their country, but it's of no more importance to me personally that Burma, and I'm not over there fighting either.

 

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Posted
54 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

We're not discussing which negotiation skills are great, we're discussing what will actually achieve the peace that pro-Russia Western commenters here claim they want.

going to the negotiating table and see wouold be the fist move... but US doesn't want peace, you n others here don't because youre still in cold war mentality, probably watched Red heat last night too

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Posted
12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So you blame the west for Putin's war crimes. You really do deserve payment from the Kremlin.

yeah, i blame the wests interfering for the situation today, Jens Stoltenberg even said som much recently at a nato conference.

 

war crimes. well if Putins is guilty of them lets see bush, Blaire, etc etc under the same charges to make things equal. 

 

are you shill, paid by the MIC, the MSM, etc etc, better than you pension i guess

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Posted
8 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

going to the negotiating table and see wouold be the fist move... but US doesn't want peace, you n others here don't because youre still in cold war mentality, probably watched Red heat last night too

Thinking about it, the west is sending loads of weapons, planes etc to Ukraine to continue the fight. Don't hear much about them calling for peace negotiations on realistic terms.

I guess you are correct in your opinion that the US doesn't want peace, as long as Ukraine can rustle up a few more bodies for the front lines.

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Posted
Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Thinking about it, the west is sending loads of weapons, planes etc to Ukraine to continue the fight. Don't hear much about them calling for peace negotiations on realistic terms.

I guess you are correct in your opinion that the US doesn't want peace, as long as Ukraine can rustle up a few more bodies for the front lines.

the less Ukrainians that live, the less will be said about the plundering of those 12 trillion in minerals Ukraine sits on!!

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Posted
18 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

stop the lies.

Putin has never offered realistic terms, nor did he offer terms that were trustworthy.

Ukraine offered realistic terms.

of course, putin bad ukraine good. 

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