Thai Jet Fighter Purchase: F-16 or Gripen, Still Undecided

[webfact]

F-16 Block. Picture courtesy: Lockheed Martin

 

On July 15, Thai Defence Minister Suthin Khlangsang announced that Thailand has not yet decided between purchasing Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70s and Saab JAS 39E Gripen fighters.

 

During a press conference, Minister Suthin clarified that although the air force favored the Swedish JAS 39E Gripen in evaluations, the decision-making process involves thorough considerations beyond initial evaluations.

 

The Thai Air Force is looking to update its aging fleet, which currently includes various models stationed across multiple wings. The primary concern is enhancing national defense capabilities and maintaining a balance of power in the region.

 

Minister Suthin emphasized that the choice between the American and Swedish jets would significantly impact Thailand's defensive strategies.

 

JAS 39E. Picture courtesy: Wikimedia

 

Cost, capability, and strategic alliances are central to this procurement decision. As Thailand aligns its defense needs with broader geopolitical considerations, both the U.S. and Sweden offer compelling options which have been narrowed down to these two aircraft.

 

In his upcoming visit to Washington, Minister Suthin aims to discuss various topics, including this key military procurement, with U.S. Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin. This engagement illustrates the importance of U.S.-Thai relations and the potential impact these discussions could have on the final decision.

 

As the Thai government deliberates, the air force's current operational needs and future strategic requirements remain at the forefront of this significant military update.

 

This procurement choice is not just about replacing older jets but also about positioning Thailand appropriately in a rapidly changing security environment. The final decision, expected to be announced later this year, will determine the direction of Thai air defense capabilities for decades to come.

 

-- 2024-07-16

 

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[ezzra]

Go with the F-16 seeing it's usefulness and capabilities track records in several countries around the world...

[Georgealbert]

F-16 vs Gripen: US cuts rates by 30% to stay in competition after Thailand’s reported preference for the Swedish fighter.

 

“RTAF commander ACM Punpakdee Pattanakul sent the results of the comparative study to Defense Minister Sutin Klungsang for further deliberation last week, along with his recommendation to opt for the Swedish solution.

 

However, shortly after the RTAF’s predilection for the Gripen came to public light, Washington immediately decided to improve its bid by offering to lower the interest rates for the purchase of the F-16 Block 70/72 aircrafts from 5% to 3.5% “with an extended payback period,” a source close to the deal told the Bangkok Post.“

https://aviacionline.com/2024/07/f-16-vs-gripen-us-cuts-rates-by-30-to-stay-in-competition-after-thailands-reported-preference-for-the-swedish-fighter/

[NatureFilm]

save the money and let them go all to Ukraine!

Edited July 16 by NatureFilm

[thenewgoo]

How about getting neither and putting some money into the education sector?

[Will B Good]

10 minutes ago, thenewgoo said:

How about getting neither and putting some money into the education sector?

The last thing the elite want is an educated electorate.

[Hummin]

I am surprised if they at all are allowed to buy Jas Gripen or F16 after they bought China Subs. 

[Pouatchee]

gripen

 

Quote

Quote

The first flight took place in 1988, with delivery of the first serial production airplane in 1993. It entered service with the Swedish Air Force in 1996. Upgraded variants, featuring more advanced avionics and adaptations for longer mission times, began entering service in 2003.

 

f-16

 

Quote

The F-16 originated in an order placed in 1972 for a lightweight cost-effective air-to-air fighter. Current models are also all-weather capable and effective for ground attack as well. The U.S. Air Force took first delivery in 1978. The F-16 is 49 feet (15 metres) long and has a wingspan of 31 feet (9.45 metres).

 

pterodactyl

 

Quote

A prehistoric flying reptile, the pterodactyl inhabited Europe and many other regions of the world. It lived from the late Jurassic period through the late Cretaceous period, approximately 145 to 66 million years ago.

 

seems to me if the TRAF is going to go with dinosaurs they should try cloning some reliable old pterodactyls...

 

isnt there something more recent and reliable available? maybe ask the chinese...

 

Quote

Who would win in air to air combat, the J-16 or the F/A-18?

J-16 flies faster and outperforms the F-16 in all of its aspects. And the F-15 outperforms the F-18 in every aspect! 

 

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

gripen

 

 

f-16

 

 

pterodactyl

 

 

seems to me if the TRAF is going to go with dinosaurs they should try cloning some reliable old pterodactyls...

 

isnt there something more recent and reliable available? maybe ask the chinese...

 

 

Opinions or statistics? 

 

To date, more than 4,600 aircraft have been built since production of the F-16 Fighting Falcon was approved in 1976. It remains the world's most successful, combat-proven multi-role jet fighter ever

 

https://nationalinterest.org/about-the-national-interest

 

What is so special about the F-16 fighter jet?

In an air-to-surface role, the F-16 can fly more than 500 miles (860 kilometers), deliver its weapons with superior accuracy, defend itself against enemy aircraft, and return to its starting point. An all-weather capability allows it to accurately deliver ordnance during non-visual bombing conditions.

 

F35 is out of question anyway for countries like Thailand

 

1,000 built, and nations all over the world want them: It is safe to say that many experts now believe that the American-made F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is in the realm of conversation to be the best fighter jet ever to fly

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-f-35-might-be-best-fighter-jet-ever-208703

[retarius]

Wasn't it Gripen 2 days ago? 

[SpaceKadet]

What is it that makes US pushing this old airframe so hard. Need to get rid of old stock, or just need money for new hardware?

[trainman34014]

3 hours ago, thenewgoo said:

How about getting neither and putting some money into the education sector?

You can put in as much money as you like but nothing will change other than certain people's wallets getting thicker !

[cncltd1973]

no Chinese alternative with attractive kickback fee?

[seeyoujimmy]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

I am surprised if they at all are allowed to buy Jas Gripen or F16 after they bought China Subs. 

They already have the Gripen 5 I think they crashed one

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, seeyoujimmy said:

They already have the Gripen 5 I think they crashed one

I think Thaksin managed that deal even protests from EU back then because of the coup. Not sure what Nato and Us thought about it.

 

Found it

https://www.defencetalk.com/thai-coup-not-affecting-swedish-gripen-deal-59750/

[Sydebolle]

The size of the little manilla envelopes are decisive and this "hesitation" serves the purpose of increasing the sizes - possibly? 

[Georgealbert]

10 hours ago, seeyoujimmy said:

They already have the Gripen 5 I think they crashed one

Yes in 2017, a Saab JAS 39C Gripen impacted airport terrain after a loss of control in flight during an air display for the Children's Day Airshow at the Hat Yai International Airport, the pilot Group was killed.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1180041/gripen-jet-crashes-during-air-show-pilot-killed

[Iron Tongue]

13 hours ago, SpaceKadet said:

What is it that makes US pushing this old airframe so hard. Need to get rid of old stock, or just need money for new hardware?

"old stock" huh? You don't understand the meaning of the F-16 blocks. 

Block 70/72 is the very latest version of F-16 fighter and incorporates every new upgrade/technology as well as all past advancements.  The F-16 block 70/72 is technically better than all the thousands built before it. 

The US must really want to make this sale, perhaps to keep Thailand always connected to the US' sphere of influence for another 30-50 years.

If Thailand adopts F-16s, they will have the best fighters in SE Asia (next to Singapore), but will remain dependant on US tech, parts, upgrades, munitions, and training to maintain this dominance.

 

 

[SpaceKadet]

10 hours ago, Iron Tongue said:

"old stock" huh? You don't understand the meaning of the F-16 blocks. 

Block 70/72 is the very latest version of F-16 fighter and incorporates every new upgrade/technology as well as all past advancements.  The F-16 block 70/72 is technically better than all the thousands built before it. 

The US must really want to make this sale, perhaps to keep Thailand always connected to the US' sphere of influence for another 30-50 years.

If Thailand adopts F-16s, they will have the best fighters in SE Asia (next to Singapore), but will remain dependant on US tech, parts, upgrades, munitions, and training to maintain this dominance.

 

 

I do understand how the "blocks" work, but it's still 50+ year old airframe. Dinosaur age in technology terms. And with the requirement for proper airport runways, and 1-2 hours turn around time by a bunch of highly trained mechanics, totally outdated.

Why do you think Russia is bombing all the airport in Ukraine?

Compare that with J39 that can turn around fully fueled and armed in 15 minutes, and can use normal roads as runways.

 

Thailand already have the best fighters in SE Asia. A squadron of Grippens at Surat Thani Airbase.

 

Edited July 17 by SpaceKadet

[SpaceKadet]

11 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Yes in 2017, a Saab JAS 39C Gripen impacted airport terrain after a loss of control in flight during an air display for the Children's Day Airshow at the Hat Yai International Airport, the pilot Group was killed.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1180041/gripen-jet-crashes-during-air-show-pilot-killed

It was was not loss of control. That's the official version to save face. It was because the pilot was confused flying inverted at a very low level, pulled the stick up instead of down to ascend (inverted action). And RTAF didn't want to spend the money on SAAB software that would prevent that.

[Iron Tongue]

38 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

I do understand how the "blocks" work, but it's still 50+ year old airframe. Dinosaur age in technology terms. And with the requirement for proper airport runways, and 1-2 hours turn around time by a bunch of highly trained mechanics, totally outdated.

Why do you think Russia is bombing all the airport in Ukraine?

Compare that with J39 that can turn around fully fueled and armed in 15 minutes, and can use normal roads as runways.

 

Thailand already have the best fighters in SE Asia. A squadron of Grippens at Surat Thani Airbase.

 

Nonsense.

They won't be 50 year old airframes.  They will be new fighter jets incorporating the latest technologies and likely the latest US munitions.  F-16s have been the most successful fighters of the late Cold War - post Cold War eras.  

Grippens and F-16s actually perform different functions.  By all accounts, Grippens are excellent defensive fighters more than capable of defending Thai airspace against anything their neighbors can throw at them (including China), while the F-16 can perform as interceptors, but they are also meant as force projection aircraft capable of carrying-out offensive actions over enemy territory.

Now I don't claim to know what the Thais are planning, but I know that almost all militaries like having more options with their weapons systems.

 

 

[Hummin]

12 minutes ago, Iron Tongue said:

Nonsense.

They won't be 50 year old airframes.  They will be new fighter jets incorporating the latest technologies and likely the latest US munitions.  F-16s have been the most successful fighters of the late Cold War - post Cold War eras.  

Grippens and F-16s actually perform different functions.  By all accounts, Grippens are excellent defensive fighters more than capable of defending Thai airspace against anything their neighbors can throw at them (including China), while the F-16 can perform as interceptors, but they are also meant as force projection aircraft capable of carrying-out offensive actions over enemy territory.

Now I don't claim to know what the Thais are planning, but I know that almost all militaries like having more options with their weapons systems.

 

 

I agree with your post, but which neighbours? They already have an tradition with friendly  war games with China. China is friends with almost every Neighbouring coutries, including Vietnam who have some few disputes, but will easily overcome with some few trade deals. 

[digbeth]

The Thai Airforce wants Meteor air-to-air missile, while is only compatible with the Gripen and F35, which Thailand also wants for a time but won't be approved for sale or remotely be able to afford

[SpaceKadet]

1 hour ago, Iron Tongue said:

By all accounts, Grippens are excellent defensive fighters more than capable of defending Thai airspace against anything their neighbors can throw at them (including China), while the F-16 can perform as interceptors, but they are also meant as force projection aircraft capable of carrying-out offensive actions over enemy territory.

Obviously you are not aware what JAS stands for. It's Jakt (fighter), Atack (attack) and Spaning (reconnaissance). The role can be changed by the press of a button, more or less. And that's what Thailand needs, a modern multi-role military jet for patrol and defense. After all, I don't think Thailand is posed to attack any neighboring country just yet, AFAIK ...

 

JAS-39 has proven itself over and over again in the reconnaissance role in Syria. Yes, I know, much undocumented but very true.

 

And by 50+ year old airframe, I mean it was designed over 50 years ago.

Sweden might as well upgrade and offer SAAB 37 Viggen (contemporary airframe to F16), the only fighter jet that got a lock on SR-71. Far superior to any contemporary Russian design.

 

Swedish war tech is far ahead of that of US. Just like the small diesel Swedish sub that "sunk" Ronald Regan (CVN-76) multiple times without  ever being discovered.

[SpaceKadet]

1 hour ago, SpaceKadet said:

JAS-39 has proven itself over and over again in the reconnaissance role in Syria.

Sorry, brainfart on my part. It was Libya, not Syria.