The New ICE Engines..

[transam]

So, my new type engine thread has turned into an EV bloke, turning it around to yet another EV thread where sales are dropping. 🥴

Now can we now talk about these new power developments....🙄

 

Thank you......

[JBChiangRai]

 

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

But these links say something different.

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2024/05/04/belgium-s-ports-drowning-under-glut-of-chinese-electric-cars-some-are-parked-here-for-a-year-sometimes-a-year-and-a-half_6670373_19.html

 

https://qz.com/china-evs-demand-sales-electric-cars-ports-1851416312

 

But of course if you say something different it must be true. From your well thought out response you obviously know more than Asia Nikkei, Bloomberg and Le Monde.

 

Why not post some verifiable links to prove him wrong

 

Thanks to @mistral53 another fake news (above) has been debunked.

 

His post below

 

Nikkei Asia is jumping on the bandwagon of China EV bashing with a very low rent hit piece that is full of fake news - to wit, they claim there are 490,000 unsold Chines EVs in Thailand, which is basically forcing the Japanese car manufacturers to shut down their factories here.

 

From  Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT:

 

'Been in the auto industry for over 23 years, countless interviews in the media, but never has the information been so distorted by Nikkei news.
“Thailand now has 490,000 unsold EVs, according to the Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT), equivalent to 63% of all vehicles the country turned out in the past 12 months.“
I want to clarify that the above information is not from me and the Thai Electric Motor Association สมาคมยานยนต์ไฟฟ้าไทย Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT The number of 490,000 cars. I'm referring to the production capacity forecast of 7 electric car companies that enter EV 3.0 and it has nothing to do with the unsold electric car numbers. But NIKEI News Agency provides information that distorts reality differently.
Note: Last year, Thailand registered electric cars for the whole year about 76,000 cars and electric car registrations accumulated at the end of May. 2567 around 121,000 cars. How can we have more than 490,000 electric cars stock?'

 

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

 

edit: It appears Nikkei Asia just modified their original (dated July 26) and removed the 490,000 unsold EVs......... took them 2 days, their intentions seems obvious!

Edited July 28 by JBChiangRai
remove incorrect quote

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If there is any bad news about EC vehicles you can be reassured that the TV Evangelist will deny it, decry it as fake news or simply deny it.

 

He cannot and will not accept anything that is detrimental to EVs. Facts backed by links and reports mean mothing unless they are in favour of EVs.

He doesn't post real numbers, only percentages.

 

Without real verifiable numbers and factual links, percentages are meaningless.

 

Actually, I did, see below 2nd graph has, yes you guessed it, REAL NUMBERS

 

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Here you go

 

 

Source @ExpatOilWorker who got them from www.autolifethailand.tv 

 

Putting these numbers in context

• February 92.6% of new cars were ICE powered
• March 89.4% of new cars were ICE powered
• April 89.2% of new cars were ICE powered
• May 87.9% of new cars were ICE powered
• June 86.6% of new cars were ICE powered

As you can see the market share of ICE cars dropped every month

 

 

Compare that to the market share of new EV's

• February 7.4% of new cars were EV's
• March 10.6% of new cars were EV's
• April 10.8% of new cars were EV's
• May 12.1% of new cars were EV's
• June 13.4% of new cars were EV's.

As you can see the market share of EV's increased every month

 

 

In fact, EV market share grew 

• 30% in March
• 2% in April
• 11% in May
• 10% in June

The fact is that people are switching to EV's in droves.

 

 

[CallumWK]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

Thanks to @mistral53 another fake news (above) has been debunked.

 

His post below

 

Nikkei Asia is jumping on the bandwagon of China EV bashing with a very low rent hit piece that is full of fake news - to wit, they claim there are 490,000 unsold Chines EVs in Thailand, which is basically forcing the Japanese car manufacturers to shut down their factories here.

 

From  Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT:

 

'Been in the auto industry for over 23 years, countless interviews in the media, but never has the information been so distorted by Nikkei news.
“Thailand now has 490,000 unsold EVs, according to the Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT), equivalent to 63% of all vehicles the country turned out in the past 12 months.“
I want to clarify that the above information is not from me and the Thai Electric Motor Association สมาคมยานยนต์ไฟฟ้าไทย Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand - EVAT The number of 490,000 cars. I'm referring to the production capacity forecast of 7 electric car companies that enter EV 3.0 and it has nothing to do with the unsold electric car numbers. But NIKEI News Agency provides information that distorts reality differently.
Note: Last year, Thailand registered electric cars for the whole year about 76,000 cars and electric car registrations accumulated at the end of May. 2567 around 121,000 cars. How can we have more than 490,000 electric cars stock?'

 

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Electric-vehicles/Thai-subsidies-for-Chinese-EV-makers-wreak-havoc-on-auto-sector

 

edit: It appears Nikkei Asia just modified their original (dated July 26) and removed the 490,000 unsold EVs......... took them 2 days, their intentions seems obvious!

 

Yes I see your post, and the one from Mistral53, but where is the link to EVAT's post ?

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

So, my new type engine thread has turned into an EV bloke, turning it around to yet another EV thread where sales are dropping. 🥴

Now can we now talk about these new power developments....🙄

 

Thank you......

 

Let's get real.  Your video specifically mentioned EV's in many places, it drew comparisons and conclusions about the future of these new engines & EV's.

 

If you want to post another video where EV's are never mentioned, please go ahead.

[CallumWK]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Note: Last year, Thailand registered electric cars for the whole year about 76,000 cars and electric car registrations accumulated at the end of May. 2567 around 121,000 cars. How can we have more than 490,000 electric cars stock?'

 

 

Maybe because the Chinese sent 566.000 cars and only 76.000 were sold?

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Yes I see your post, and the one from Mistral53, but where is the link to EVAT's post ?

 

You would have to ask Mistral that, as I said, I reproduced his post giving appropriate credit.

 

However it does appear that Nikkei Asia did modify their original post and removed the 490,000 unsold EVs from it.

 

2 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Maybe because the Chinese sent 566.000 cars and only 76.000 were sold?

 

 

 

 

Callum, they removed their ludicrous claim.

[vinny41]

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I don't agree with you.

 

I used the one where all the EV's are sold and compared it to the total sales in that category.

 

I didn't include road rollers, mini-buses, tractors, tuk-tuks etc

 

The stats show a trend of growing demand for EV's and reducing demand for ICE.

 

Honda's sales have declined over 30% in the last couple of years, they have closed 5 factories including Thailand.  They see the problem at the sharp end.

 

 

No you not using where all EV's are sold 

Here is a list of the 17 DLT vehicle categories and the number of EV's registered this year

the number at the end is the number of vehicles for each category.

R.Y. 1 Private passenger car with no more than 7 people 36,497
R.Y. 2 Private passenger cars with more than 7 people 1
R.Y. 3 Personal trucks 182
R.Y. 4 personal three-wheeled vehicle 14
R.Y. 6 Vehicles for hire carrying no more than 7 passengers. 918
R.Y. 8 Three-wheeled rental car 63
R.Y. 9 Business service vehicles 6
R.Y. 10 Sightseeing service car 51
R.Y. 11 Car rental service

R.Y. 12 Motorcycle 13609
R.Y. 13 Tractor 8
R.Y. 14 road roller
R Y. 15 Vehicles used in agricultural work
R.Y. 16 trailer
R.Y. 17 Public Motorcycles 6

'EV Board' issues measures to support hybrid cars, reducing excise tax for HEV cars from 2028 - 2032, expecting this measure to create no less than 50 billion baht in investment, creating a modern car parts production base, 'Excise' expects to lose 5,000 - 10,000 million baht in revenue, but pushing Thailand to be a future HEV production base

Currently, there are 7 car manufacturers that have applied for investment promotion in Thailand, with plans to invest in hybrid cars: 4 are Japanese, namely Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, and 3 are Chinese, namely Great Wall Motors, MG, and Cherry. 

https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/business/economic/1137540

[transam]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Let's get real.  Your video specifically mentioned EV's in many places, it drew comparisons and conclusions about the future of these new engines & EV's.

 

If you want to post another video where EV's are never mentioned, please go ahead.

No, you are taking it down your EV infatuation route together with insults.

Perhaps you don't know you're doing it..

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

You would have to ask Mistral that, as I said, I reproduced his post giving appropriate credit.

 

Oh, so you reposted a post without a credible source, as a fact?

Wait a minute, that is what all your post are about, posting some hearsay as facts

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, CallumWK said:

 

Oh, so you reposted a post without a credible source, as a fact?

Wait a minute, that is what all your post are about, posting some hearsay as facts

 

Funny guy.  

[phetphet]

How long do the batteries last in an EV before they need changing?

 

How much does it cost to change them in an average sized family car? I am not up on EV's , but say something around Honda City or Honda Civic size.

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, phetphet said:

How long do the batteries last in an EV before they need changing?

 

How much does it cost to change them in an average sized family car? I am not up on EV's , but say something around Honda City or Honda Civic size.

 

Hey, this is not an EV thread, there are a zillion EV threads to get your answer, but be aware most of the EV-ers there will tell you a load of ol' tosh.........😋

[billd766]

25 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Actually, I did, see below 2nd graph has, yes you guessed it, REAL NUMBERS

 

 

Correct.

 

What a surprise that you didn't even bother to do your own research.

 

What a pity that somebody else supplied them for you to copy and paste.

 

From your post.

 

quote "Source @ExpatOilWorker who got them from www.autolifethailand.tv 

Edited July 28 by billd766
added extra text

[ignis]

I will wait for a couple of years more  and see

 

Carbon fiber battery   at least 50% weight reduction + 1,000 km  + per charge ,sounds more tempting

 

Look how far Petrol engines progressed, my 1st 3 cars did between 12 - 16 miles per gallon

[phetphet]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Hey, this is not an EV thread, there are a zillion EV threads to get your answer, but be aware most of the EV-ers there will tell you a load of ol' tosh.........😋

Maybe,  I was just thinking that if batteries have a short-ish life and it is expensive to change the whole lot, that might be why Thais aren't buying. 

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, phetphet said:

How long do the batteries last in an EV before they need changing?

 

How much does it cost to change them in an average sized family car? I am not up on EV's , but say something around Honda City or Honda Civic size.

 

 

MG guarantee the batteries in most of their EV's for the lifetime of the vehicle.  I think the industry will follow suit, but that's just my humble opinion.

 

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Correct.

 

What a pity that somebody else supplied them for you to copy and paste.

 

The irony of that is the numbers were provided by an Anti-EV guy.

 

And guess what, I gave him the credit when I first posted them.

 

I love it when anti-EV guys post numbers that destroy their own arguments.

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, phetphet said:

Maybe,  I was just thinking that if batteries have a short-ish life and it is expensive to change the whole lot, that might be why Thais aren't buying. 

 

Actually, Thais are buying, for the last 5 months, the market share of EV's has grown every month.

 

It's fair to say though that not many people are buying cars of any type currently.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Maybe,  I was just thinking that if batteries have a short-ish life and it is expensive to change the whole lot, that might be why Thais aren't buying. 

You will have to look if manufacturers give a battery guaranty that does NOT include mileage....Pointless having an 8 year guaranty if it ends at 100,000 miles...

 

If the battery fails at 8 years, you can probably dump the car.....There are horror stories out there on cost of EV battery replacement.

 

But as I said, many EV threads out there, but read between the lines...😉

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, transam said:

So, my new type engine thread has turned into an EV bloke, turning it around to yet another EV thread where sales are dropping. 🥴

Now can we now talk about these new power developments....🙄

 

Thank you......

Oh the irony of transam complaining someone has derailed his thread....

[transam]

Just now, josephbloggs said:

Oh the irony of transam complaining someone has derailed his thread....

Yes, now you, but expected........🙄

 

Now are you sitting comfortably, good, what have you to say about this new generation of ICE engines...?

Now take your time, no rush.........

[ExpatOilWorker]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I never said the market share of EV's was 30% in March.  Go back over my post and re-read it.

 

If you want to work it out yourself, you may need some crayons.

I have adjusted the graph for when you have the next percentage class.

[josephbloggs]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes, now you, but expected........🙄

 

Now are you sitting comfortably, good, what have you to say about this new generation of ICE engines...?

Now take your time, no rush.........

I would say you are very easily hoodwinked. I watched the entire video and didn't hear one single detail of any new tech or development, not one. Just lots of generic words. They say these revolutionary engines use "direct injection" (common since 2000) and "variable valve timing" (common since 1989). Oh and they can switch from "pure EV" to "pure ICE" or somewhere inbetween. They are just basic hybrid engines, nothing more, nothing less. What did I miss? Where is the revolutionary breakthrough? Can you explain? I was going to say I thought you were more intelligent than that but then I remembered....

So where's the breakthrough?

Oh, and the channel is very shouty and very anti EV from the looks of it.

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

I would say you are very easily hoodwinked. I watched the entire video and didn't hear one single detail of any new tech or development, not one. Just lots of generic words. They say these revolutionary engines use "direct injection" (common since 2000) and "variable valve timing" (common since 1989). Oh and they can switch from "pure EV" to "pure ICE" or somewhere inbetween. They are just basic hybrid engines, nothing more, nothing less. What did I miss? Where is the revolutionary breakthrough? Can you explain? I was going to say I thought you were more intelligent than that but then I remembered....

So where's the breakthrough?

Oh, and the channel is very shouty and very anti EV from the looks of it.

 

 

Oh dear, they are shouty and not EV friendly, that must have been very trying for you.............😢

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, transam said:

So, my new type engine thread has turned into an EV bloke, turning it around to yet another EV thread where sales are dropping. 🥴

Now can we now talk about these new power developments....🙄

 

Thank you......

IMO the best adjective for some posts is pig-headed.

[josephbloggs]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Oh dear, they are shouty and not EV friendly, that must have been very trying for you.............😢

 

You conveniently ignored my questions as you always do whenever someone challenges your nonsense, every single time.  Ignore, post something silly with some childish emojis. I always enjoy a reasonable debate as obviously I am not always right so it good to hear other opinions, but you never engage, you ignore or deflect. So let's try again.

Where is the breakthrough? What makes these any different from any other hybrid engine? There is nothing in the video.

Shouty videos do annoy me as no reputable journalistic source uses shouty all caps headlines like "GAME OVER", "NO MORE ELECTRIC!", it is just click bait for the gullible. If people don't like EVs it doesn't bother me (as you know I don't own one), it just bothers me when people lie or post nonsense........that goes for any topic, not just EVs.
 

Anyway back on topic. What's the breakthrough? What's new?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

If there is any bad news about EC vehicles you can be reassured that the TV Evangelist will deny it, decry it as fake news or simply deny it.

 

He cannot and will not accept anything that is detrimental to EVs. Facts backed by links and reports mean mothing unless they are in favour of EVs.

He doesn't post real numbers, only percentages.

 

Without real verifiable numbers and factual links, percentages are meaningless.

What I want to see is actual numbers of cars sold in Thailand each year since 2018. Obviously, COVID would have impacted sales. The big question is where the market is now in numbers, and <deleted> the percentages.

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

You conveniently ignored my questions as you always do whenever someone challenges your nonsense, every single time.  Ignore, post something silly with some childish emojis. I always enjoy a reasonable debate as obviously I am not always right so it good to hear other opinions, but you never engage, you ignore or deflect. So let's try again.

Where is the breakthrough? What makes these any different from any other hybrid engine? There is nothing in the video.

Shouty videos do annoy me as no reputable journalistic source uses shouty all caps headlines like "GAME OVER", "NO MORE ELECTRIC!", it is just click bait for the gullible. If people don't like EVs it doesn't bother me (as you know I don't own one), it just bothers me when people lie or post nonsense........that goes for any topic, not just EVs.
 

Anyway back on topic. What's the breakthrough? What's new?

It would seem you don't understand my thread, though I am not surprised, just your usual lambasting, how tiresome......

 

Ignore your questions, well, your questions are usually laced with personal nonsense, having a bad day nonsense.........🤭

[atpeace]

6 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

Nope he isn't.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/07/27/thailand-changes-tack-as-ev-revolution-turns-into-a-damp-squib-with-warehouses-full-of-unsold-cars/

 

Thailand shifts focus from EVs to hybrids after unsold cars pile up.

In short, the EV boom has not materialised, leaving a glut of hundreds of thousands of unsold cars in Thai warehouses.

 

Thailand on Friday signalled it was hedging its bets over its previous all-out commitment to EV cars. Instead, in a new policy announcement, the kingdom is focusing on hybrid vehicle production or HEVs.

 

In the meantime, the EV boom seen in 2023 is not being reproduced in 2024.

With sales either falling or growth decelerating worldwide, it is becoming increasingly clear the all-electric EV car is not the groundbreaking game-changer that it was thought to be.

For instance, even China, which is pushing the technology, has just announced new incentives of up to ฿150,000 per car in an EV scrappage offer.

Assume you didn't read the article.  EV sales are flat while ICE vehicles are down 43%.  If EVs growth remained the same as 2024 nearly 90% of cars on the road would be EV in the next decade.  I own an ICE car and am happy with it.  You are delusional.  Open your eyes and see what is really happening on the roads. It is an amazing transition. There will be years when EV sales drop 20% but at this point it is ICE  cars that are being hammered.

Edited July 28 by atpeace

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Assume you didn't read the article.  EV sales are flat while ICE vehicles are down 43%.  If EVs growth remained the same as 2024 nearly 90% of cars on the road would be EV in the next decade.  I own an ICE car and am happy with it.  You are delusional.  Open your eyes and see what is really happening on the roads. It is an amazing transition. There will be years when EV sales drop 20% but at this point it is ICE  cars that are being hammered.

There are still plenty of pickups on the roads in Thailand, as distinct from cars.

 

EV's growth can't remain the same because there simply are not enough raw materials to grow the EV percentage to 90%. It's about 30% at best.

 

IMO the first manufacturer that comes up with a hybrid pickup is going to do very well.

Edited July 28 by Lacessit