The most sensible comment from a politician "I want them to stop dying"

[TedG]

10 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 So the answer to my original question "have you been to Russia" is:

never been to Russia
never known a Russian
don't know where Russia is
I rely on MSNBC, CNN, ABC to tell me what I need to know

I don't support the war in Gaza or Ukraine - the quicker you stop supplying billions to feed the military complex the quicker peace will come

I don't need to visit Russia to realize that Putin is evil and his war in Ukraine is immortal. 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, rasg said:

It wasn't justified at all. The US have been meddling in affairs in other countries where they think it strategically right to do so. That means those where they can make the most money and Ukraine has been the money laundering capital of the world for years.

If they poke Russia and provoke a response they are fine with it.

 

So you think that it's perfectly acceptable for a politician - elected on a platform which promised closer ties to the West with the ultimate aim of gaining EU membership - to unilaterally break that promise and instead effectively become Putin's poodle? You also presumably think that the Ukrainian electorate should have simply grinned and bore this volte-face?

 

The Maidan uprising was completely justified. What isn't justified is Putin's actions in Ukraine.

 

That Ukraine may have been a money laundering centre is completely irrelevant unless you also believe that ridding Ukraine of such practices justifies Russia launching a war.

[rasg]

30 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

So you think that it's perfectly acceptable for a politician - elected on a platform which promised closer ties to the West with the ultimate aim of gaining EU membership - to unilaterally break that promise and instead effectively become Putin's poodle? You also presumably think that the Ukrainian electorate should have simply grinned and bore this volte-face?

 

The Maidan uprising was completely justified. What isn't justified is Putin's actions in Ukraine.

 

That Ukraine may have been a money laundering centre is completely irrelevant unless you also believe that ridding Ukraine of such practices justifies Russia launching a war.

What you seem to find acceptable is that the US stoked the Maidan uprising in the form of a Colour Revolution. It's not. In the same way they have been doing exactly the same in numerous countries around the world fro many years to put their preferred leaders in place. You would be one of the first to squeal if they did it in the UK.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, rasg said:

What you seem to find acceptable is that the US stoked the Maidan uprising in the form of a Colour Revolution. It's not. In the same way they have been doing exactly the same in numerous countries around the world fro many years to put their preferred leaders in place. You would be one of the first to squeal if they did it in the UK.

It's academic at this point.

Maiden happened, it was popular, and Ukraine asserting it's independence from Russia is popular too.

Putin had no business invading and occupying sovereign Ukraine terrority which of course started in 2014.

Putin is on record as not accepting the existence of Ukraine as a sovereign nation in any form. He sees it as a part of Russia and his goal is to make that happen no longer how long it takes and how many millions of poor and provincial Russian lives that it costs.

You can't make a real peace deal with such evil. 

[frank83628]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's academic at this point.

Maiden happened, it was popular, and Ukraine asserting it's independence from Russia is popular too.

Putin had no business invading and occupying sovereign Ukraine terrority which of course started in 2014.

Putin is on record as not accepting the existence of Ukraine as a sovereign nation in any form. He sees it as a part of Russia and his goal is to make that happen no longer how long it takes and how many millions of poor and provincial Russian lives that it costs.

You can't make a real peace deal with such evil. 

do you have a quote of Putin saying that? he said, you will probably find him on record as not accepting the existence of Ukraine in nato.

Evil because your western media tells you his is, Russia has been the bogeyman since the end of ww2, he' so evil that his popularity is 80%+!

[RayC]

9 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

do you have a quote of Putin saying that? he said, you will probably find him on record as not accepting the existence of Ukraine in nato.

Evil because your western media tells you his is, Russia has been the bogeyman since the end of ww2, he' so evil that his popularity is 80%+!

 

Not a quote but an article. No doubt you will dismiss this as more MSM bias.

 

https://time.com/6150046/ukraine-statehood-russia-history-putin/

[RayC]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's academic at this point.

Maiden happened, it was popular, and Ukraine asserting it's independence from Russia is popular too.

Putin had no business invading and occupying sovereign Ukraine terrority which of course started in 2014.

Putin is on record as not accepting the existence of Ukraine as a sovereign nation in any form. He sees it as a part of Russia and his goal is to make that happen no longer how long it takes and how many millions of poor and provincial Russian lives that it costs.

You can't make a real peace deal with such evil. 

 

I disagree that it is academic.

 

If the Maidan uprising had simply been the work of an anti-Russian faction hell bent on overthrowing a democratically elected pro-Russian leader, who had the support of the Ukrainian people, then Putin might have some justification for his actions.

 

However, this was not the case. As I outlined in previous posts, Yanukovych did not have the mandate to implement pro-Russian policies. Therefore, his removal was completely justified. What is not justified are Putin's subsequent actions.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, rasg said:

What you seem to find acceptable is that the US stoked the Maidan uprising in the form of a Colour Revolution. It's not. In the same way they have been doing exactly the same in numerous countries around the world fro many years to put their preferred leaders in place. You would be one of the first to squeal if they did it in the UK

 

None of which lends any justification to Putin invading a sovereign country, a fact that you are unable to counter.

 

As for US interference in the UK. It's been happening for years. For example, Obama attempted to sway the result of the Brexit Referendum by suggesting that the UK would be at the back of the queue for any trade deals if we left the EU. Obama's intervention obviously didn't have the desired effect although, to date, he has been proved correct.

[frank83628]

10 hours ago, RayC said:

 

What are the names of these outlets? I'll look for myself.

RT is the one not allowed here, but there are many other independent ones, the greyzone, Matt Taibbi, Arron Matte, Scott Ritter, Douglas Macgregor, any of these guys will give a different version of events,  even Russell Brand these days is better than any MSM, (certainly was when it came to the covid BS we were being force fed). 

 

'RT is Kremlin propaganda', there, i said the cliche for you.

[RayC]

13 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

RT is the one not allowed here, but there are many other independent ones, the greyzone, Matt Taibbi, Arron Matte, Scott Ritter, Douglas Macgregor, any of these guys will give a different version of events,  even Russell Brand these days is better than any MSM, (certainly was when it came to the covid BS we were being force fed). 

 

'RT is Kremlin propaganda', there, i said the cliche for you.

 

Thanks for the details.

 

Someone posted an article from the Grey zone. I don't know whether it is representative of the site as a whole but it was incoherent gibberish. Russell Brand? In the words of John McEnroe, 'You cannot be serious?': I'll have a look at the others when I get a chance.

 

At least we agree on something: RT is Kremlin propaganda.

[frank83628]

47 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Not a quote but an article. No doubt you will dismiss this as more MSM bias.

 

https://time.com/6150046/ukraine-statehood-russia-history-putin/

i read it, i don't really have an opinion on it other than i  guess you accept the vote tallies and polls in the article, do you accept the ones for the Crimea referendum? the last paragraph shows the bias of Patrikarakos, basically it doesn't matter what Putin said, he thinks otherwise.

Personally i would prefer to listen to Putin speak directly so as not to be misquoted or edited. thats why i would watch RT for things like that, the same as i used to watch the white house live to hear Trump unedited.

[frank83628]

8 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Thanks for the details.

 

Someone posted an article from the Grey zone. I don't know whether it is representative of the site as a whole but it was incoherent gibberish. Russell Brand? In the words of John McEnroe, 'You cannot be serious?': I'll have a look at the others when I get a chance.

 

At least we agree on something: RT is Kremlin propaganda.

no, i dont think Russell Brand is a high ranking political analyst, he was interesting to watch with regards to covid for those of us that didn't believe the msm narrative, and no, not anti vax or covid denier, just question things than blindly follow on.

[BobBKK]

6 hours ago, TedG said:

I don't need to visit Russia to realize that Putin is evil and his war in Ukraine is immortal. 

 You don't know anything about the situation - you think you do. That is dangerous, but I do give enormous credit to the MSM for sowing such an intricate web of lies. Some see through it - some do not.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

RT is the one not allowed here, but there are many other independent ones, the greyzone, Matt Taibbi, Arron Matte, Scott Ritter, Douglas Macgregor, any of these guys will give a different version of events,  even Russell Brand these days is better than any MSM, (certainly was when it came to the covid BS we were being force fed). 

 

'RT is Kremlin propaganda', there, i said the cliche for you.

 
Let alone Professor Sachs and Professor Mearsheimer, two super intellectuals recognised for their understanding of world affairs and both political science experts.

Both can be found on YouTube for those with an open mind.

[frank83628]

40 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
Let alone Professor Sachs and Professor Mearsheimer, two super intellectuals recognised for their understanding of world affairs and both political science experts.

Both can be found on YouTube for those with an open mind.

forgot about those 2, Also Chris Hedges and the Late John pilger

[frank83628]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

 

 

 

At least we agree on something: RT is Kremlin propaganda.

no, i don't agree, i just used the cliche for you.

[Lacessit]

18 hours ago, luckymitchell said:

Yes, I think most from both side voted for Ukraine aid, they are all in the M.I.C pocket, that's how they all get rich on a standard salary. Trump is the only one that has his own wealth.

IMO I am not alone in questioning how wealthy Trump really is. Consider the following facts:

 

1/ Trump was the only President in US history to refuse to make his tax returns public.

 

2/ He could not come up with the $450 odd million to appeal the Engoron judgment. It was then reduced. Bond was arranged through a shell company which had less NTA than the new bond.

 

3/ He is using campaign funds to pay his legal expenses.

 

4/ He owes Deutsche Bank somewhere north of $400 million, which loans mostly fall due in the next couple of years.

 

5/ He owns 17 golf courses. Nearly all of them are losing money hand over fist. He can't get PGA endorsement for any of them.

 

6/ He has had six bankruptcies on his business record.

 

7/ Contrary to popular belief, many of the properties with the Trump name on them are not owned by him. They are leased.

 

What kind of billionaire flogs gold sneakers and bibles? True, he's excellent at grifting a low IQ base, but one has to wonder whether his purported wealth is not all smoke and mirrors.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/30/2024 at 6:37 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Have a look here: This Map Shows Where in the World the U.S. Military Is Combatting Terrorism | Smithsonian (smithsonianmag.com)

"Does Afghanistan count as more than one?" No, it means that you only know one.

Terrorism or fighting the corrupt regimes controlled by the US? The difference is usually determined by which side one is on.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps you can tell me why Chamberlain was replaced by Churchill, then.

I'm not going to write a history lesson on here as it'd be deleted. The information is all out there if you really want to know and are not just baiting me.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Please remind me, to which party does the Bush family belong to?

 

It's good that Trump didn't start any war until now. But in case he will be president again, what do you think he will do with Israel?

Will he stop all weapon deliveries to them?

Or will he send and finance weapons for billions to that country like any other president before him? 

Sadly he will support israel. Perhaps the only hope for the Palestinians is israel provoking a M E war and being defeated.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Most likely a small surgical repair with some kind of plastic compound - they have some very good stuff for that now - the bullet made just a small nick but ears do bleed a lot.

Seems certain posters imagine that just because Trump wasn't killed it wasn't an important event. Sad to be so completely anti Trump that one can't see the forest for the trees.

However, if it were Harris that had a tiny nick in her ear, it'd likely be the worst thing in the history of mankind.

 

[BobBKK]

4 hours ago, frank83628 said:

forgot about those 2, Also Chris Hedges and the Late John pilger

 Why forget them - they are largely respected commentators with impeccable academic CVs.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO I am not alone in questioning how wealthy Trump really is. Consider the following facts:

 

1/ Trump was the only President in US history to refuse to make his tax returns public.

 

2/ He could not come up with the $450 odd million to appeal the Engoron judgment. It was then reduced. Bond was arranged through a shell company which had less NTA than the new bond.

 

3/ He is using campaign funds to pay his legal expenses.

 

4/ He owes Deutsche Bank somewhere north of $400 million, which loans mostly fall due in the next couple of years.

 

5/ He owns 17 golf courses. Nearly all of them are losing money hand over fist. He can't get PGA endorsement for any of them.

 

6/ He has had six bankruptcies on his business record.

 

7/ Contrary to popular belief, many of the properties with the Trump name on them are not owned by him. They are leased.

 

What kind of billionaire flogs gold sneakers and bibles? True, he's excellent at grifting a low IQ base, but one has to wonder whether his purported wealth is not all smoke and mirrors.

and yet he is regarded as a threat to the Democrat machine winning this time. Who cares about your points except Democrats? I doubt anyone else gives a rat's bottom about his golf courses or bankruptcies.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Why forget them - they are largely respected commentators with impeccable academic CVs.

Perhaps because they speak an unfortunate truth, and not Democrat propaganda.

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and yet he is regarded as a threat to the Democrat machine winning this time. Who cares about your points except Democrats? I doubt anyone else gives a rat's bottom about his golf courses or bankruptcies.

I'd say people with any sense of what's right - morality, ethics, call it what you will - still care about truth. Perhaps you have lost that compass, and swallow Trump's lies without even blinking.

[Lacessit]

47 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Terrorism or fighting the corrupt regimes controlled by the US? The difference is usually determined by which side one is on.

Don't forget to list the Christchurch shootings, done by a white nationalist who was decidedly right-wing. In your neck of the woods, I understand.

 

Let's face facts, shall we? The biggest domestic terrorism threat is from extreme right wingers.

[BobBKK]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'd say people with any sense of what's right - morality, ethics, call it what you will - still care about truth. Perhaps you have lost that compass, and swallow Trump's lies without even blinking.

 I agree on morality and ethics - truth, but where is it? You seem to swallow, hook, line and sinker, anything you are fed from MSM.

[BobBKK]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Don't forget to list the Christchurch shootings, done by a white nationalist who was decidedly right-wing. In your neck of the woods, I understand.

 
Why can't you condemn any nutters on the left or the right?  I do, and I'm sure most of us do.

[Lacessit]

Just now, BobBKK said:

 
Why can't you condemn any nutters on the left or the right?  I do, and I'm sure most of us do.

AFAIK most of the nutters are white nationalists, armed and dangerous.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 I agree on morality and ethics - truth, but where is it? You seem to swallow, hook, line and sinker, anything you are fed from MSM.

You know nothing about me, or the media I read. Ad hominem attacks are your forte.

 

I suggest you read " Straight and Crooked Thinking " by R H Thouless. An oldie, but a goodie. It's how I filter all the Trumper BS.