Woke Olympics proves the world really has gone (lady)Ga Ga.

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 minute ago, Pickwick said:

Basic, in the sense of not being accurate, yes. 

 

It is the SRY gene (normally attached to the Y chromosome) which dictates sexual development. Sometimes this gene mutates, and sometimes can even be found attached to the X chromosome (see Swyer syndrome below).

 

You do not need to read advanced biology books to discover this - the 'basic science' can be found even on superficial sites such as Wikipedia - 'In some instances, a seemingly normal female with a vagina, cervix, and ovaries has XY chromosomes, but the SRY gene has been shut down'.

 

I appreciate you may have been taught the basic science of XX and XY chromosome at school, but it is an oversimplification. There are many variations, including XX Male (de la Chapelle syndrome); XXY (Klinefelter syndrome); XXX Trisomy and XY female (Swyer syndrome).

 

In the latter case, Swyer syndrome, the phenotype is completely female, with existing tubes, vagina, and various grades of uterus hypoplasia ranging from severe to mild underdevelopment. Pregnancy and successful birth have been recorded, albeit rarely as an egg donation is required (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5885995/).

 

Furthermore, women who have Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia or Polycystic Ovary Syndrome can have very high levels of testosterone.

 

See above. 

 

See above.

 

It's not how it has always been. This is ignorance being parroted as scientific fact.

 

That being said, in a sport as aggressive as boxing, there has to be a better duty of care. If there is a wild difference in testosterone levels then the mismatch is akin to a lightweight fighting a heavyweight. 

 

 

All that being said, in a sport as aggressive as boxing there has to be a better duty of care, and even a na

 

All of your blather does not make a trans into a woman... he/she will always be a trans... let them be free to develop their own category instead of forcing women to accept them as equals... physically they are not equal and never will be.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

All of your blather does not make a trans into a woman... he/she will always be a trans... let them be free to develop their own category instead of forcing women to accept them as equals... physically they are not equal and never will be.

Another one that doesn't get it.

These are NOT transgender cases!

 

Imane Khelif and transphobia's impact on cis women (advocate.com)

Attacks on Imane Khelif prove what we've long known: Transphobia hurts cis women, too

[Pickwick]

2 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

All of your blather does not make a trans into a woman

All of my blather doesn't make a woman into a trans either. 

[Skipalongcassidy]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Another one that doesn't get it.

These are NOT transgender cases!

 

Imane Khelif and transphobia's impact on cis women (advocate.com)

Attacks on Imane Khelif prove what we've long known: Transphobia hurts cis women, too

Double talk is still double talk... I have no fear of trans woman... in fact I find them very genuine... still doesn't make them women and never will... they will always be trans and deserve their own separate place especially in competitive sports... and cut the crap about cis this and cis that.

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 minute ago, Pickwick said:

All of my blather doesn't make a woman into a trans either. 

?????  Who is saying that???

[Pickwick]

Just now, Skipalongcassidy said:

?????  Who is saying that???

I think my original post is not difficult to understand. 

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, thesetat2013 said:

weirdos meaning cardinals and bishops from all over the world? Seems that also are in an uproar over the ladyboy depiction of the Last Supper. 

You think an institution, that knows it's filled with gay pedophiles, while preaching morality, is not wierd?

Edited August 2 by shdmn

[Skipalongcassidy]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Prove that with a source. 

"In Olympic boxing competitions, an athlete’s gender is determined by his or her passport, the IOC statement said. All the women participating in the boxing tournament have passports that indicate they are female, an IOC spokesperson said Tuesday."  Paris Olympics: IOC doubles down on its decision to permit 2 boxers who failed unspecified gender eligibility tests to compete - Yahoo Sports

[Skipalongcassidy]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Prove that with a source. 

 

Edited August 2 by Skipalongcassidy

[Kinok Farang]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't actually know if she's a man. 

If a woman looks manly, does that mean she's a man?

If a man looks feminine, does that mean he's a woman?

Mark Spitz was born with a perfect swimmer's body.

Should he have been excluded from competing?

I well understand the debate about trans people in sports.

This isn't that, is it?

My understanding is that the IOC has totally rejected the previous rejection of the two controversial athletes as bogus. 

Everyone wants fairness.

But you also need to be fair to all athletes too, including ones that don't look right to you.

 

Perhaps the criteria should be "would i shaag her"? and in this case it's a definite no.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

"In Olympic boxing competitions, an athlete’s gender is determined by his or her passport, the IOC statement said. All the women participating in the boxing tournament have passports that indicate they are female, an IOC spokesperson said Tuesday."  Paris Olympics: IOC doubles down on its decision to permit 2 boxers who failed unspecified gender eligibility tests to compete - Yahoo Sports

The Algerian was born female with a vagina.

She is not a transgender woman.

Her passport reflects her gender at birth.

SEPERATE issue.

[Kinok Farang]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I want it to be looked at but I reject witch hunts based on superficial appearances.

I'm seeing this as different than about transgender athletes.

If it was proven they were transgender I would understand saying they shouldn't be allowed to compete.

But I've seen zero evidence that they are transgender.

Back to what I said about Mark Spitz.

Look at his body and if you know about swimming you know he had an "unfair" advantage.

So again just looking too manly is no grounds for disqualification. 

I just think you are using this post to talk about your unrequited love for Mark Spitz.

[Captain Flack]

A reported flame post, against forum rules has been removed.

[Kinok Farang]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No evidence they have or ever had penises.

And there is no proof that they have ever had tits.

[Skipalongcassidy]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The Algerian was born female with a vagina.

She is not a transgender woman.

Her passport reflects her gender at birth.

SEPERATE issue.

What source states that... it is conjecture at best by 2 LBQTRXYZ sources and there is no proof provided by either.  Her passport does not reflect her gender at birth... where do you come up with all this misinformation.

[Kinok Farang]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

Then you have to accept transgenders with small penises and low estrogen as women to. I is a bit more complicated than so, and very delicate to be used as controversies in politics. 

Buggar,i qualify for that.

[Kinok Farang]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Another one that doesn't get it.

These are NOT transgender cases!

 

Imane Khelif and transphobia's impact on cis women (advocate.com)

Attacks on Imane Khelif prove what we've long known: Transphobia hurts cis women, too

Cis,just a wasted word by someone who is down with the trendies.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Pickwick said:

That being said, in a sport as aggressive as boxing, there has to be a better duty of care. If there is a wild difference in testosterone levels then the mismatch is akin to a lightweight fighting a heavyweight. 

 

 

Agreed....    I like the 'duty of care' comment...

 

As with many such issues, there is a binary categorisation across a spectrum..  in this case a person who fits within neither boundary due to natural constraints...  

 

... this is not her fault...  but, neither is it the fault of those against whom she fights when her sexual genome type gives her a natural physical advantage over females considered 'normal'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pickwick]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed....    I like the 'duty of care' comment...

 

As with many such issues, there is a binary categorisation across a spectrum..  in this case a person who fits within neither boundary due to natural constraints...  

 

... this is not her fault...  but, neither is it the fault of those against whom she fights when her sexual genome type gives her a natural physical advantage over females considered 'normal'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree and appreciate your reasoned response. The issue of genetic advantage in sport is both complex and fraught with danger. I have read that people born at high altitudes have an advantage at running, due to increased haemoglobin (something that cannot be fully replicated by high-altitude training). And some genetic females (without chromosome mutations) have higher levels of testosterone than others, for example. That gives them a disproportionate advantage in a sport such as boxing.

 

Of course, it is natural to want to reduce complex scenarios into simple binary ones, but it is not always possible. Add in an emotive topic such as transgender athletes - which is not actually what we are talking about - and it is very difficult just to have a reasoned discussion - which is why I appreciate your response.

[Kinok Farang]

1 hour ago, Pickwick said:

I agree and appreciate your reasoned response. The issue of genetic advantage in sport is both complex and fraught with danger. I have read that people born at high altitudes have an advantage at running, due to increased haemoglobin (something that cannot be fully replicated by high-altitude training). And some genetic females (without chromosome mutations) have higher levels of testosterone than others, for example. That gives them a disproportionate advantage in a sport such as boxing.

 

Of course, it is natural to want to reduce complex scenarios into simple binary ones, but it is not always possible. Add in an emotive topic such as transgender athletes - which is not actually what we are talking about - and it is very difficult just to have a reasoned discussion - which is why I appreciate your response.

Get a room.

[Kinok Farang]

And of course unless we forget,Muslims think it perfectly ok to beat ladies up as was proved at Manchester Airport recently when a Pakistani guy broke a police-ladies nose.

[Pattaya57]

I see the 2nd "XY woman" just won their first fight

 

"Lin won her first fight at Paris 2024 on Friday - the 28-year-old entering the arena to cheers and some boos before beating Sitora Turdibekova in the 57kg category"

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

I see the 2nd "XY woman" just won their first fight

 

"Lin won her first fight at Paris 2024 on Friday - the 28-year-old entering the arena to cheers and some boos before beating Sitora Turdibekova in the 57kg category"

If the IOC allows these cisgender (NOT TRANSGENDER) ladies to compete they should be treated the same as any other allowed competitor. It's atrocious behavior to boo them, demonize them, harass them, etc. I don't know if people have noticed but women who excel at rough sports are quite often the tomboy type, more masculine than usual women, butch lesbians, etc. SO WHAT?!? 

[richard_smith237]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

They are not trans.

They are women.

They cleared to compete by the IOC.

They are now victims of a right wing culture wars just because of their looks.

 

They have XY chromosomes...

 

They are not victims of culture wars - they are victims of genetics. 

 

Its sad for them, but their scientifically proven biological attributes place them outside of the limits within which female athlete can compete in a physical competition under fair and equal conditions. 

 

The IOC requirements are clearly shown up to be unfair and wrong - the IBA (International boxing association) tested both Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan and disqualified them for having XY (male) chromosomes instead of XX (female).

 

Sadly, for both athletes in question, sport is binary - Male / Female...  and these women fall within a grey area where their gender and resulting 'additional' power places them in a 'physical grey area'.

 

This is one of those examples where 'life is tough' - but its also unfair on all other female athletes to have to fight against them.

 

There is no perfect, fits in a neat little box type of answer.

 

Its being turned into a 'trans issues' which it is not - its a fairness issue - both Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan fall outside of the guidelines through not fault of the own, but just as someone who has taken performance enhancing drugs, they are at an advantage which is unfair - unfair to them too that they cannot complete, or, unfair to those they compete against, when permitted to. 

 

 

 

I have a feeling that Jing simply wants to 'carry the flag' for these athletes because he is gay...  his sole bias is supporting any alienated 'sexual minority'...  but this is not about Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, Queer, Trans boxers - its about a Female boxer(s) whose genetics place them within a gender 'grey area' and at an unfair advantage.

 

Its tough - but life is imperfect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If the IOC allows these cisgender (NOT TRANSGENDER) ladies to compete they should be treated the same as any other allowed competitor. It's atrocious behavior to boo them, demonize them, harass them, etc. I don't know if people have noticed but women who excel at rough sports are quite often the tomboy type, more masculine than usual women, butch lesbians, etc. SO WHAT?!? 

 

The IOC approach is clearly flawed and perhaps even woke - why don't they follow the same testing methods as the IBA ???...   Can the IOC run their own blood tests and check both Chromosome type (XX or XY) and Testosterone levels to establish whether or not the two athletes in question are performing in a physical even on a level playing field ?

 

 

I agree - there is no need to demonise, harass and boo the athletes - they are simply going ahead with what they have been permitted to do.... BUT, I do 'demonise, harass and boo' the IOC for its incredibly poor handling of this situation in not carrying out their own tests especially in light of the fact that these athletes were disqualified from the World Boxing Championships.

 

 

[Pattaya57]

Less than 90 minutes before the boxing world may go unto further meltdown.

 

I see there's a Thai in the quarterfinals just before the Chromosome fight

 

 

[Pattaya57]

Congrats to Thai lady Janjaem Suwannapheng. Now guaranteed a medal (just beat the previous Olympic gold medalist)

Edited August 3 by Pattaya57

[Pattaya57]

Surprise, surprise, the XY chromosome won

 

She/he now also guaranteed a medal in women's welter-weight

Edited August 3 by Pattaya57

[Kinok Farang]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

They have XY chromosomes...

 

They are not victims of culture wars - they are victims of genetics. 

 

Its sad for them, but their scientifically proven biological attributes place them outside of the limits within which female athlete can compete in a physical competition under fair and equal conditions. 

 

The IOC requirements are clearly shown up to be unfair and wrong - the IBA (International boxing association) tested both Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan and disqualified them for having XY (male) chromosomes instead of XX (female).

 

Sadly, for both athletes in question, sport is binary - Male / Female...  and these women fall within a grey area where their gender and resulting 'additional' power places them in a 'physical grey area'.

 

This is one of those examples where 'life is tough' - but its also unfair on all other female athletes to have to fight against them.

 

There is no perfect, fits in a neat little box type of answer.

 

Its being turned into a 'trans issues' which it is not - its a fairness issue - both Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan fall outside of the guidelines through not fault of the own, but just as someone who has taken performance enhancing drugs, they are at an advantage which is unfair - unfair to them too that they cannot complete, or, unfair to those they compete against, when permitted to. 

 

 

 

I have a feeling that Jing simply wants to 'carry the flag' for these athletes because he is gay...  his sole bias is supporting any alienated 'sexual minority'...  but this is not about Lesbian, Bisexual, Gay, Queer, Trans boxers - its about a Female boxer(s) whose genetics place them within a gender 'grey area' and at an unfair advantage.

 

Its tough - but life is imperfect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh for the days when there was only bumboys,dykes and trannies.

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, Kinok Farang said:

Oh for the days when there was only bumboys,dykes and trannies.

And good ole boys wearing wife beaters and driving pickups.