Warning! New Retirement Visa Rules - Hope This Is Of Interest.

[RichardEllis]

Many thanks to everyone for their comments and ideas.

Since I still have almost a month on my original visa I will try this:

• Get a "Foreign Exchange Certificate" from Bangkok Bank for the original wire transfer of my 800K from abroad in August 2006. I guess I can keep that for subsequent visa renewals.
  

Good idea. I was told these will be required every year from now. I am going to buy a company and come out of retirement,.

As a previous poster noted, I believe the government doesnt want foreigners here if their actual actoions (reather than their rhetoric) are anything to go by. A pity really but I believe they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which can only reinforce the international image of incompetence that exists after their many recent blunders.

Thaksin on the other hand was perfectly welcome and remains unmolested if disliked in UK. Odd isn't it how some people are scared stiff of the Farang and others arent a bit scared of Thais.

Rich

[RichardEllis]

I also had the misfortune of trying to renew my retirement visa at Suan Phlu this afternoon, Aug. 2. When I got my queue number slip and entered room 101, at 1:20 pm., I was distressed to see it jammed with far more people waiting than I'd ever seen there before. There were 100 numbers before mine was due, and at the rate they were calling them, I figured a couple of hours to wait. Luckily, there is a foot massage spa two blocks away, toward Sathorn, so I killed an hour in comfort. Back to Immigration, only to be faced with well over another hour of waiting. Finally at 5:20 pm. (a 4-hour wait) my number was called. I thought I had everything in order, as I've sailed thru the renewal process twice before without problems.

But as previous posters have warned, the officer said something about wanting to see a letter from Bkk. Bank proving that the money I had wired in to fulfill the 800K balance had really come from abroad. She had already seen the FTT code in the bankbook, which I had thought was proof enough, but not any more. So she gave me a one-month extension and said to come back with an updated bankbook, but not needing the bank letter until next year. At least I think that's what she said, as her English was pretty poor, and there was no written notification. I will re-visit Bkk. Bank in the meantime to see what kind of documentation they can provide. I wasn't aware of the 3-months-in-the-bank requirement, but noticed that Aug. 30, my day to return, is exactly 3 months after the date of my last wire transfer. She never mentioned this requirement verbally though.

So the goalposts seem to have shifted again, to the dismay of not only the retirees, but also the overworked Immigration staff who were still struggling with the last of the crowd after 5:30. Now that most of us need to make two trips to Suan Phlu, when one used to suffice, another 4-hour wait may in the offing a month from now.

The one-month is for not having the required certification or not having in the account for 3 months. DO NOT go back without the letter.

I am really sorry about all <deleted>, it really does seem like they dont want us here. Either that or they are making everyone suffer because a few people have fooled them with forged docs. Thais don't like being fooled, I guess it makes them feel like... well, fools..

Still. at least I am sort of glad that my original report has been vindicated by those with subsequent experience.

Rich

[Jingthing]

Any word from other immigration offices than Bangkok?

I am still unclear on what they want.

Do they need a report from the source overseas bank or a certificate from the incoming Thai bank?

In my case, I just call in for my wires. There is no paper on it whatsoever!

[melonf]

Does this mean that if you work in Thailand and save for a retirement nest egg, then you cannot stay in Thailand when you retire?

[Jingthing]

Does this mean that if you work in Thailand and save for a retirement nest egg, then you cannot stay in Thailand when you retire?

I suppose you could hold the money offshore for a long time, then wire it back in. Uh oh, probably the start of another witch hunt!

[Jingthing]

Hmmm.

I have a theory as to who is coming up with these new officious rules from immigration.

See the latest Harry Potter movie and then you will get it.

[Maestro]

...Do they need a report from the source overseas bank or a certificate from the incoming Thai bank?...

From your Thai bank. I guess the confirmation of the balance, the confirmation that the money came from abroad, and that the balance was always not less than 800,000 baht during the last three months can all be in one and the same bank letter.

--------------

Maestro

[Krub]

...Do they need a report from the source overseas bank or a certificate from the incoming Thai bank?...

From your Thai bank. I guess the confirmation of the balance, the confirmation that the money came from abroad, and that the balance was always not less than 800,000 baht during the last three months can all be in one and the same bank letter.

--------------

Maestro

It would help tohave somebody post this 'request to the Bank' in Thai so that we could show it to our banks.

I am pretty sure we will have plenty of empty stares at the massive wave of these new requests to local branches especially up-country.

Also it would 'pay' to only keep1bank account and not a few spread around and around the country....

[the gent]

Retirement in Penang and commuting to a bijoux condo in Bangers on tourist visas strikes me as an increasingly more attractive option.

[wca01]

Does this mean that if you work in Thailand and save for a retirement nest egg, then you cannot stay in Thailand when you retire?

Of course you can! If you can proof that you were working a couple of years in Thailand and that you have paid your taxes, you should be ok. (Quote from an immigration lawyer in Bangkok)

WCA

[RichardEllis]

Any word from other immigration offices than Bangkok?

I am still unclear on what they want.

Do they need a report from the source overseas bank or a certificate from the incoming Thai bank?

In my case, I just call in for my wires. There is no paper on it whatsoever!

Jingthing, I thought it was clear, I apologise if not.

They want the money in a bank book for 3 months, and <i><u>a letter or official form from a Thai bank certifying the money was transferred in from overseas</b></i>. Preferably, the money should be in the same bank book for 3 months; I transferred from one bank to another a month prior and that seemed to confuse them. Best to wait (hindsight is crystal clear of course).

Rich

[RichardEllis]

Does this mean that if you work in Thailand and save for a retirement nest egg, then you cannot stay in Thailand when you retire?

You could transfer the dosh overseas (less than 25,000USD should not require BOT approval), then bring it back. Pain in the harris though.

Rich

[RichardEllis]

Retirement in Penang and commuting to a bijoux condo in Bangers on tourist visas strikes me as an increasingly more attractive option.

Doesnt it just? This was my own preferred option in case of excessive problems (it is sensible to have a fall-back position). Or Vietnam, I understand retirees in Malaysia dn Vietnam can own businesses and the land under property. Increasingly attractive options plus you dont get the brain-dead 'regulations' made up on a whim - or fewer of them anyway, and both countries appear to welcome retirees and indeed, foreigners (and their money) in general.

I suspect we have 'government by bright idea', whereby the Minister or some other Einstein wakes up with a bright idea and it is enacted by lunch time with no though as to practicality or even common sense. Interestingly, the Captian in Suan Phlu office apparently suggested lodging a complaint about the new rule: evidently they were also given no prior warning of the new regulation and even the staff don't like it very much, though some appear ready to apply it with enthusiasm (probably another bit of personal power to spread around)..

Rich

Edited August 3, 2007 by RichardEllis

[ifuller]

I went to Bangkok Bank (Emporium) today and they gave me a "Credit Advice / Receipt" letter for my Swift international transfer last year. The Bank Officer I spoke to said that will satisfy Immigration.

The advice was free of charge.

Now I will spend an hour or two lovingly taping all my ATM receipts for a year to A4 paper and copying them.

I'll make another visit to Immigration on Monday and keep my fingers crossed.

[PeaceBlondie]

This may make two more things (or four unless they think of six more) to worry about to renew my annual retirement visa in October/November. Take last year's embassy statement and try to get it certified by the MFA in Bangkok, but by then it may be a year old...and... Get a new 30 baht health certificate which wasn't needed last year. Maybe go back to the US Consulate for a new pension letter (about 1,500 baht) and get that one certified (more money). And then worry that the same office that accepted last year's online statements from my home bank as proof that I withdraw the pension at Thai ATM's, may require original monthly bank statements that never existed. Or, this year they might ask for ATM slips that I've never kept because they never required them. Or, maybe they'll require fingerprinting or toenail clippings for DNA samples, or a police clearance report from Zimbabwe, translated to Urdu. by the Thai embassy in Antarctica....

[Krub]

This may make two more things (or four unless they think of six more) to worry about to renew my annual retirement visa in October/November. Take last year's embassy statement and try to get it certified by the MFA in Bangkok, but by then it may be a year old...and... Get a new 30 baht health certificate which wasn't needed last year. Maybe go back to the US Consulate for a new pension letter (about 1,500 baht) and get that one certified (more money). And then worry that the same office that accepted last year's online statements from my home bank as proof that I withdraw the pension at Thai ATM's, may require original monthly bank statements that never existed. Or, this year they might ask for ATM slips that I've never kept because they never required them. Or, maybe they'll require fingerprinting or toenail clippings for DNA samples, or a police clearance report from Zimbabwe, translated to Urdu. by the Thai embassy in Antarctica....

Life is never dull in the LOS

[deejah]

peace

when you say home bank,

do you mean you are able to maintain the fund requirment with the money outside of thailand?

in what country do your funds lie?

thanks

[R123]

Many thanks to those who have related their recent experiences on this and other forum links re the "retirement" visa.

If I understand correctly the basic rules for obtaining this 1 year visa in Thailand or renewal, are being over 50, and having 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank for 3 months.No requirement now for a medical certificate.

Currently it appears in some, if not all cases, applicants are being asked to provide documentary proof of the source(from overseas) of the 800,000 baht.

Those who cannot provide such proof when in immigration and applying or have not had the funds in a Thai bank for 3 months are being given a 1 month stamp etc.

(Seems to me, and just guessing, the immigration practice is a reaction to some people where the genuineness of the 800,000 baht or its' source is questionable).

1. Have I summarised matters correctly?

2. Does anyone know of any case of an applicant who is over 50, has the 800,000 in a Thai for 3 months, and can prove the funds are bona fida(and not being a wanted person) being outright refused the retirement visa or renewal?

Many Thanks.

Edited August 3, 2007 by R123

[Xidi]

Hello, @ all,

at first sorry for my bad english, but i think it's important to tell you my experience today at the Immigration office.

Something about me: I stay at Koh Samui now for 3 years at one piece, was coming at this time with a non immigrant O visa for one year, married since 6 years to a thai native. I've got no work, no business, just bought some land, and built some bungalows and apartments on it and provide it for rent, all in my wife's name.

These 3 years i've got no problems at all, i don't even have to leave the island for a new visa. So i went today to the immigration office to apply a new one year visa. I showed the officer my passport, marriage paper, bank account (more than 400 k ), and everything else needed.

He said: "The law has changed now. It is no more important to have 400.000 baht in a bank account, but, since we make a living here to have rooms for rent, it is necessary to pay tax for my person, minimum income 40.000 baht/month estimated"

I replied:" I've got no work at all, because my wife is the owner, and she's doing it private, no company."

He said:" Since you both get profit from the bungalows and apartments, your wife have to pay your taxes. Without paying tax (exactly 3.800 baht/6 month) you won't be able to get another one year visa, just one month extention."

I asked one more time to get it straight: no more proof about bank account? and he said: no more necessary to have any amount in the bank. Strange, isn't it ?

[lopburi3]

Strange and wrong. You should still have the option to use the 400k bank deposit to obtain an extension of stay as you have been doing for the past years. For those not already doing this the law has been changed to only allow family income of 40k per month. The law is National Police Order 606/2006 and can be found from the linked items at top of forum. The paragraph number is 7.17 and it says the below:

(6) In case of the applicant who is

married to a Thai wife, one of them

or both of them need to have the

total annual income that is

averaged out not less than 40,000

Baht per month. Except for the case

that the said foreign national has

entered Thailand before this Order

is enforced and the foreign national

has been permitted to stay in the

Kingdom by the result of having

married to a Thai wife, then if the

applicant does not have the said

income, then, the latest 3 months

records of the account book of any

Bank in Thailand with the account

name of either or both parties need

to have the amount of money not

less than 400,000 Baht.

[lopburi3]

Did you by chance say that your wife makes more than 40k per month. In that case they may make you use the income method although have not heard of others being told that yet. Surly if your wife does not make 40k you should still be able to use the 400k deposit method (although it would not require the money being in account for a period of three months prior to extension).

[PeaceBlondie]

peace

when you say home bank,

do you mean you are able to maintain the fund requirment with the money outside of thailand?

in what country do your funds lie?

thanks

No, I qualify by my pensions, but even then, I cannot expect Thai Immigration to believe what I tell my embassy. So I prove to them on copies from my internet banking, that I receive the pensions monthly, and withdraw it in Thailand through the ATM.

[Xidi]

Did you by chance say that your wife makes more than 40k per month. In that case they may make you use the income method although have not heard of others being told that yet. Surly if your wife does not make 40k you should still be able to use the 400k deposit method (although it would not require the money being in account for a period of three months prior to extension).

@lopburi3 Thanks for the clear info!

I didn't say any about our income. My wife also. The officer said that amount (40 k ) is the minimum limit to be taxed. In fact, our income average ( high and low seasons) is much higher, so I shouldn't speak it out loud.

[RichardEllis]

I went to Bangkok Bank (Emporium) today and they gave me a "Credit Advice / Receipt" letter for my Swift international transfer last year. The Bank Officer I spoke to said that will satisfy Immigration.

The advice was free of charge.

Now I will spend an hour or two lovingly taping all my ATM receipts for a year to A4 paper and copying them.

I'll make another visit to Immigration on Monday and keep my fingers crossed.

Good luck...

Rich

[RichardEllis]

This may make two more things (or four unless they think of six more) to worry about to renew my annual retirement visa in October/November. Take last year's embassy statement and try to get it certified by the MFA in Bangkok, but by then it may be a year old...and... Get a new 30 baht health certificate which wasn't needed last year. Maybe go back to the US Consulate for a new pension letter (about 1,500 baht) and get that one certified (more money). And then worry that the same office that accepted last year's online statements from my home bank as proof that I withdraw the pension at Thai ATM's, may require original monthly bank statements that never existed. Or, this year they might ask for ATM slips that I've never kept because they never required them. Or, maybe they'll require fingerprinting or toenail clippings for DNA samples, or a police clearance report from Zimbabwe, translated to Urdu. by the Thai embassy in Antarctica....

I don't know anything about the medical certificate, I certainly wasn't asked for one. You should assume you will need a recent pension verification from the Embassy. You will definitely need a letter from your bank verifying the balance in the account you offer for the 800kbt provision, make sure it is less than 7 days old when you hit the Sottomor.

As to the rest, it probably depends on whether the minister gets any more brain-dead bright ideas. Highly likely.

Rich

[RichardEllis]

peace

when you say home bank,

do you mean you are able to maintain the fund requirment with the money outside of thailand?

in what country do your funds lie?

thanks

They must be in a Thai bank and onshore.

Rich

[lotus eater]

Many thanks to those who have related their recent experiences on this and other forum links re the "retirement" visa.

If I understand correctly the basic rules for obtaining this 1 year visa in Thailand or renewal, are being over 50, and having 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank for 3 months.No requirement now for a medical certificate.

Currently it appears in some, if not all cases, applicants are being asked to provide documentary proof of the source(from overseas) of the 800,000 baht.

Those who cannot provide such proof when in immigration and applying or have not had the funds in a Thai bank for 3 months are being given a 1 month stamp etc.

(Seems to me, and just guessing, the immigration practice is a reaction to some people where the genuineness of the 800,000 baht or its' source is questionable).

1. Have I summarised matters correctly?

2. Does anyone know of any case of an applicant who is over 50, has the 800,000 in a Thai for 3 months, and can prove the funds are bona fida(and not being a wanted person) being outright refused the retirement visa or renewal?

Many Thanks.

Yes I will fit the criteria of your no. 2 and am wondering how I will be treated for my next extension.

It could be they are looking for proof that a fresh 800k comes annually from abroad to finance your life here. That would prove (though not absolutely) that you aren't financing yourself in part by illegal work here. ATM receipts etc of a foreign bank could achieve the same result, and I'd be interested to know if that works.

I too was hoping to adopt the practice of leaving 800k on term deposit with a thai bank (with proof that it came from abroad) and then draw on a foreign atm card for running expenses. I'll be waiting to hear how people fare on that basis.

[JetsetBkk]

...Do they need a report from the source overseas bank or a certificate from the incoming Thai bank?...

From your Thai bank. I guess the confirmation of the balance, the confirmation that the money came from abroad, and that the balance was always not less than 800,000 baht during the last three months can all be in one and the same bank letter.

--------------

Maestro

That's what I would hope you can do.

But, in the past, it was always the case that if you didn't spend all of the 800,000 from the previous year you could "top up" with funds from abroad to get back up to 800,000. So if you had 200,000 left you could transfer just 600,000.

With this new "proof of transfer" requirement, does it also mean that you must transfer a minimum of 800,000?

I wonder what will happen when someone transfers 600,000 and shows the proof, and also shows more than 800,000 for 3 months. Will their application be rejected because they didn't transfer 800,000?

[Jingthing]

This is getting out of hand.

Nobody, repeat, nobody has reported a requirement to transfer a fresh 800K EVERY year!

This new enforcement is clearly aimed at proving the source of the transfers.

[JetsetBkk]

This is getting out of hand.

Nobody, repeat, nobody has reported a requirement to transfer a fresh 800K EVERY year!

This new enforcement is clearly aimed at proving the source of the transfers.

I think it's a valid question, but I hope you're right. See the post before my previous one, by "lotus eater" - post no. 57 - where he writes about a "fresh 800,000".

It depends how the immigration officer interprets the new requirement, which I don't believe anyone has seen written down.