Warning! New Retirement Visa Rules - Hope This Is Of Interest.

[Jingthing]

Lance_A_Lot: Good question. Lopburi3 is correct, however, the unasked issue is if your obtaining a non-imm-O visa in Thailand from a tourist visa or entry permit based on retirement.

My experience, having done it twice, is that the review of your non-imm-0 application and attendant documents is as thorough as any retirement extension as this visa is being granted in Thailand based on your intended purpose of retiring here. Thus you must have all the documents needed to satisfy a retirement extension when applying for the non-imm-O.

Those who have non-imm-O visas issued abroad for whatever reason must, of course, provide full retirement extension documentation when they apply for a retirement extension of their existing non-imm-O, perhaps based on other than retirement rationale.

My first go around in BKK five years ago in applying for a change of visa status to non-imm-O from a tourist visa involved not only the standard bank letter, but a letter from the bank's wire office documenting the country of origin of the wire transfer, the institution originating the transfer, the amount and the time and day of the transfer. Fortunately, the wire transfer office of Bangkok Bank was a quick cab drive away, and with a little time, this "additional" requirement was satisfied after my first encounter with my processing officer.

Upon my return to him, he advised that the wire transfer letter was not sufficient, that he needed something else, despite my writing down in English and my Thai companion writing in Thai what he wanted originally. Fortunately, I had ingratiated myself with the officer by appearance and manner such that he volunteered to obtain the additional requirement from the bank by fax!!!! By the way, there were two senior officers sitting in the same office with my solo processing officer with nothing on their desks and doing absolutely nothing on both visits to that office. By the way, I was required to wait 30 days before returning to BKK to get my visa. Fortunately the extension of that visa was obtainable from Chiang Mai and was possible after another 60 days.

This spring, the whole process was done in Chiang Mai in one visit for the non-imm-O without wire transfer requirements and one visit for the extension without wire transfer requirements. The difference in treatment may have been because the first time I went the 800K baht route and the second the pension + route.

I am qualifying based on the 800K account.

I am waiting to go to my bank until I know EXACTLY what to ask for that will be a gold standard for me in the future. As I said before, I cannot get that 20K USD plus form. After reading this, I am even more confused about what EXACTLY I will need. Also. this indicates going to the wire office in Bangkok might be necessary. I also don't want a nasty surprise years from now when trying to transfer my visa to a new passport, and then finding it is way too late to get this paper.

Someone just said this was easy? Really?

Edited August 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[RichardEllis]

Lance_A_Lot: Good question. Lopburi3 is correct, however, the unasked issue is if your obtaining a non-imm-O visa in Thailand from a tourist visa or entry permit based on retirement.

My experience, having done it twice, is that the review of your non-imm-0 application and attendant documents is as thorough as any retirement extension as this visa is being granted in Thailand based on your intended purpose of retiring here. Thus you must have all the documents needed to satisfy a retirement extension when applying for the non-imm-O.

Those who have non-imm-O visas issued abroad for whatever reason must, of course, provide full retirement extension documentation when they apply for a retirement extension of their existing non-imm-O, perhaps based on other than retirement rationale.

My first go around in BKK five years ago in applying for a change of visa status to non-imm-O from a tourist visa involved not only the standard bank letter, but a letter from the bank's wire office documenting the country of origin of the wire transfer, the institution originating the transfer, the amount and the time and day of the transfer. Fortunately, the wire transfer office of Bangkok Bank was a quick cab drive away, and with a little time, this "additional" requirement was satisfied after my first encounter with my processing officer.

Upon my return to him, he advised that the wire transfer letter was not sufficient, that he needed something else, despite my writing down in English and my Thai companion writing in Thai what he wanted originally. Fortunately, I had ingratiated myself with the officer by appearance and manner such that he volunteered to obtain the additional requirement from the bank by fax!!!! By the way, there were two senior officers sitting in the same office with my solo processing officer with nothing on their desks and doing absolutely nothing on both visits to that office. By the way, I was required to wait 30 days before returning to BKK to get my visa. Fortunately the extension of that visa was obtainable from Chiang Mai and was possible after another 60 days.

This spring, the whole process was done in Chiang Mai in one visit for the non-imm-O without wire transfer requirements and one visit for the extension without wire transfer requirements. The difference in treatment may have been because the first time I went the 800K baht route and the second the pension + route.

I am qualifying based on the 800K account.

I am waiting to go to my bank until I know EXACTLY what to ask for that will be a gold standard for me in the future. As I said before, I cannot get that 20K USD plus form. After reading this, I am even more confused about what EXACTLY I will need. Also. this indicates going to the wire office in Bangkok might be necessary. I also don't want a nasty surprise years from now when trying to transfer my visa to a new passport, and then finding it is way too late to get this paper.

Someone just said this was easy? Really?

Jings, te bank may know by now what the requirements are. Ask them what proof of improt is available and whether the Immigration will accept it. Perhaps a letter would suffice...

Rich

[Krub]

I can see your point but do you realy believe that having to show 800k in a bank account (coming from abroad) to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult ?

Nope. What is unreasonable is the obsessive introduction of new regulations (which will be no better thought out than the old regulations) WITHOUT ADVANCE WARNING.

If you you have never tried to stay in lets say Japan or Europe on a Thai passport, there you would be able to say that the administration is trying hard and not shy to admit that the rules are there to limit the foreigner coming in and settling in. I still think that Thailand is easy to live, cheap with good quality of life and easy to fulfill the requirements (at least for the non working retirees over 50)

My turn to see your point, however to compare Thailand with Japan, USA or Europe is hardly reasonable. Thailand fears foreigners because they will buy the ranch and the Thai culture (also the private ATM) will be lost to the ruling classes, who quite like the status quo.

Europe, USA and Japan are attractive to people who want to partake of the social support systems which are almost completely absent in Thailand. It is this which they seek to limit.

Rich

If you are a genuine retiree over 50, I mean somebody who is in Thailand enjoying the weather,easy cheap cost of living, etc. This by using either his saved lump sum or his regular income/pension has no difficulties to comply with the rules (original ones) nor all the extra documents required.

I agree it is ennoying that the new request for documents comes with no orlittle advance warning. But they can hardly be called new rules when the sum is the same,the time is the same (they warned well in advance of the new 3 months rule last year before it was introduced)

[RichardEllis]

I can see your point but do you realy believe that having to show 800k in a bank account (coming from abroad) to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult ?

Nope. What is unreasonable is the obsessive introduction of new regulations (which will be no better thought out than the old regulations) WITHOUT ADVANCE WARNING.

If you you have never tried to stay in lets say Japan or Europe on a Thai passport, there you would be able to say that the administration is trying hard and not shy to admit that the rules are there to limit the foreigner coming in and settling in. I still think that Thailand is easy to live, cheap with good quality of life and easy to fulfill the requirements (at least for the non working retirees over 50)

My turn to see your point, however to compare Thailand with Japan, USA or Europe is hardly reasonable. Thailand fears foreigners because they will buy the ranch and the Thai culture (also the private ATM) will be lost to the ruling classes, who quite like the status quo.

Europe, USA and Japan are attractive to people who want to partake of the social support systems which are almost completely absent in Thailand. It is this which they seek to limit.

Rich

If you are a genuine retiree over 50, I mean somebody who is in Thailand enjoying the weather,easy cheap cost of living, etc. This by using either his saved lump sum or his regular income/pension has no difficulties to comply with the rules (original ones) nor all the extra documents required.

I agree it is ennoying that the new request for documents comes with no orlittle advance warning. But they can hardly be called new rules when the sum is the same,the time is the same (they warned well in advance of the new 3 months rule last year before it was introduced)

With respect, this is the same kind of spin that the Thai government would use. The rules are not the same. Immigration told me there was a new regulation, introduced on 1st August that required proof of source for 800k every year, including funds transferred in previous years. She also said that neither they, nor applicants had been advised of the NEW rule prior to introduction.

It isn't the form which is the problem, and it isn't the form I have been grumbling about, a form is easy to get if you know you have to get it. The problem is nobody knew it was a new requirement, and this - to me - sums up the competence of the Thai government pretty well.

Rich

[garnet]

it really would be helpful to hear more first hand reports from people who have been to immigration in the last few days in all the 200 plus posts i beleive only 3 people had actually visited an immigration office this month 2 in bkk and 1 in pattaya the 2 people who visited bkk both encountered totally different problems the person in pattaya no problems at all it does seem that somthing changed on the 1st of august as richard ellis has lucidly explained it would be helpful to me and i,m sure most people following this thread to hear how these changes are being applied to the various different circumstances we all have

[Krub]

I can see your point but do you realy believe that having to show 800k in a bank account (coming from abroad) to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult ?

Nope. What is unreasonable is the obsessive introduction of new regulations (which will be no better thought out than the old regulations) WITHOUT ADVANCE WARNING.

If you you have never tried to stay in lets say Japan or Europe on a Thai passport, there you would be able to say that the administration is trying hard and not shy to admit that the rules are there to limit the foreigner coming in and settling in. I still think that Thailand is easy to live, cheap with good quality of life and easy to fulfill the requirements (at least for the non working retirees over 50)

My turn to see your point, however to compare Thailand with Japan, USA or Europe is hardly reasonable. Thailand fears foreigners because they will buy the ranch and the Thai culture (also the private ATM) will be lost to the ruling classes, who quite like the status quo.

Europe, USA and Japan are attractive to people who want to partake of the social support systems which are almost completely absent in Thailand. It is this which they seek to limit.

Rich

If you are a genuine retiree over 50, I mean somebody who is in Thailand enjoying the weather,easy cheap cost of living, etc. This by using either his saved lump sum or his regular income/pension has no difficulties to comply with the rules (original ones) nor all the extra documents required.

I agree it is ennoying that the new request for documents comes with no orlittle advance warning. But they can hardly be called new rules when the sum is the same,the time is the same (they warned well in advance of the new 3 months rule last year before it was introduced)

With respect, this is the same kind of spin that the Thai government would use. The rules are not the same. Immigration told me there was a new regulation, introduced on 1st August that required proof of source for 800k every year, including funds transferred in previous years. She also said that neither they, nor applicants had been advised of the NEW rule prior to introduction.

It isn't the form which is the problem, and it isn't the form I have been grumbling about, a form is easy to get if you know you have to get it. The problem is nobody knew it was a new requirement, and this - to me - sums up the competence of the Thai government pretty well.

Rich

Do you expect Thai immigration to write to you informing you of the new requirement maybe supplying you with the new form ?

How long do you need to be aceptable ? 1 week 1 month 1 year ?

Maybe they should take into account your holiday and travel pattern so that it is not too inconvenient for your to recieve the info ?

When it is reported they inform in advance (like in Pattaya involving a local British Consul) that the embassy letter would have to be certified by the MFA from 1 October. The wholeforum cries to we will wait and see, we don't believe, it is impossible, etc etc.

I am not syaing they are the masters of PR or organisation but after all it is very easy to comply (at least for retirees over 50)

Edited August 7, 2007 by Krub

[mojaco]

This is regarding my experience in NOT having needed a "special wire transfer form" mentioned in this thread.

I renewed my retirement visa on August 1 as I have been doing for six or seven years now. For the first time in years I was asked to produce copies of the bank receipts proving foreign transfer of funds coming in to the bank, and fortunately I had obtained the most recent four of these and brought them along. None of those receipts were the "special form" mentioned in this thread, but were the normal ones provided by the bank, but each of them did have a blue official-looking bank stamp on them (I picked them up on July 31 at the bank as the bank was open that day.) The Bankok Bank branch I use can only print out the most recent 90 days of normal 1/2 sheet receipts and so the bank clerk had to go into another room to print out the oldest receipt I requested using a different computer system. That receipt was on a full size sheet of paper. The immigration officer spent some considerable time reading the full size receipt (perhaps it was a type she had not seen before) but said nothing and approved the renewal for another year.

Since I had brought in more than 800,000 Baht with those four transfers during the past seven months, I suppose that would have satisfied any question in the officer's mind about needing to produce a receipt for the "original" deposit (some seven years earlier)? So I am unable to tell if the 800,000 has to be brought in new every year or not. I hope not.

[Jingthing]

Mojaco: thanks for that excellent report. More please!

I want to mention again for the rumor mill. There is no evidence whatsoever that immigration is requiring a fresh 800K be transferred annually. This whole issue is about documentation, not a major rule change like that, which does not exist. Could it exist in the future? Yes. And if it does, I bet you they will also require pensioners to transfer in the full amount as well. Cross that bridge when it comes.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[JimGant]

Have not seen any post that combined pensions have been accepted - as Embassy letter is issued to a passport rather than a family that would probably prevent it happening

However, at least in the case of a US citizen, the "income" statement you swear to says: "He/She affirms that he/she receives in amount of US$__ every month from the United States Government and/or other sources."

"Other sources" could be a lot of things, including money gifted from your spouse, which is unlimited for US tax purposes.

Nothing unethical about this, assuming your spouse actually does 'give' you the dollars required. This could be nothing more than, "Here, darling, deposit this check into our account." (But, if Immigration someday gets around to checking sources, a notarized letter from the spouse attesting to the gift should do the trick.)

And, of course, this does not violate Immigration's spirit that '65k/mo or an 800k bank acct' is meant to cover *both* married members.

[bkkguy1970]

I know Thailand resembles a banana republic more than anything else but they do say they *want* to join the developed world. Seems to me a considerable change of attitude ought to be necessary before that happens..

I am sure the US, UK and Australian embassies could give their Thai brothers some helpful pointers on immigration policy and consistency of implementation in "developed" countries!

bkkguy

[Eneukman]

I renewed my visa yesterday on the basis of having 800,000 baht in the bank. My balance is quite a bit in excess of that and when I got my letter, it included a reference to funds of 670,000 or so baht that I had transferred in March having been received from abroad. I had taken with me a print-out of my Isle of man account from where funds are transferred to my Bangkok Bank account as and when required, but didn't need to produce this.

There was a comment here that someone had been asked for proof of where that they lived where they claimed to be living so I attached a copy of the first page of my lease to all the other documentation that was required. Immigration in Pattaya didn't seem to be too interested, though they didn't remove it either. I also took copies of my latest rent receipts, but again these weren't required.

After 10 to 15 minutes, I was asked to go back this morning to pick up my passport, which I got immediately. I then applied for a multiple re-entry permit and was out within 10 minutes or so.

The whole operation was painless, as usual.

Alan

[RichardEllis]

I can see your point but do you realy believe that having to show 800k in a bank account (coming from abroad) to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult ?

Nope. What is unreasonable is the obsessive introduction of new regulations (which will be no better thought out than the old regulations) WITHOUT ADVANCE WARNING.

If you you have never tried to stay in lets say Japan or Europe on a Thai passport, there you would be able to say that the administration is trying hard and not shy to admit that the rules are there to limit the foreigner coming in and settling in. I still think that Thailand is easy to live, cheap with good quality of life and easy to fulfill the requirements (at least for the non working retirees over 50)

My turn to see your point, however to compare Thailand with Japan, USA or Europe is hardly reasonable. Thailand fears foreigners because they will buy the ranch and the Thai culture (also the private ATM) will be lost to the ruling classes, who quite like the status quo.

Europe, USA and Japan are attractive to people who want to partake of the social support systems which are almost completely absent in Thailand. It is this which they seek to limit.

Rich

If you are a genuine retiree over 50, I mean somebody who is in Thailand enjoying the weather,easy cheap cost of living, etc. This by using either his saved lump sum or his regular income/pension has no difficulties to comply with the rules (original ones) nor all the extra documents required.

I agree it is ennoying that the new request for documents comes with no orlittle advance warning. But they can hardly be called new rules when the sum is the same,the time is the same (they warned well in advance of the new 3 months rule last year before it was introduced)

With respect, this is the same kind of spin that the Thai government would use. The rules are not the same. Immigration told me there was a new regulation, introduced on 1st August that required proof of source for 800k every year, including funds transferred in previous years. She also said that neither they, nor applicants had been advised of the NEW rule prior to introduction.

It isn't the form which is the problem, and it isn't the form I have been grumbling about, a form is easy to get if you know you have to get it. The problem is nobody knew it was a new requirement, and this - to me - sums up the competence of the Thai government pretty well.

Rich

Do you expect Thai immigration to write to you informing you of the new requirement maybe supplying you with the new form ?

This is a silly question.

How long do you need to be aceptable ? 1 week 1 month 1 year ?

A reasonable period of notice so people can get their things organised. A month perhaps? Other countries manage to announce new regulations, why not Thailand?

Maybe they should take into account your holiday and travel pattern so that it is not too inconvenient for your to recieve the info ?

Another silly question.

When it is reported they inform in advance (like in Pattaya involving a local British Consul) that the embassy letter would have to be certified by the MFA from 1 October. The wholeforum cries to we will wait and see, we don't believe, it is impossible, etc etc.

Speaking with the voice of experience of Thailand perhaps. I dont know. You can't blame people for being cynical, if the Thai Government told me it was raining I would look out of the window. Competence, forethought, planning reasoning, non-discriminatory, these are the keywords of effective government. All the things that are missing here. Ad-hoc, knee-jerk, peremptory, misguided, lunatic. These are the Thai keywords.

I am not syaing they are the masters of PR or organisation but after all it is very easy to comply (at least for retirees over 50)

I am really glad you didnt say "masters of PR or organisation", that would have been *very* silly.

The point is (and I shouldn't really have to explain this). It isn't so much *what* is done but *how* it is done. In Thailand we have very stupid things being done very incompetently. Same same.

Rich

[RichardEllis]

This is regarding my experience in NOT having needed a "special wire transfer form" mentioned in this thread.

I renewed my retirement visa on August 1 as I have been doing for six or seven years now. For the first time in years I was asked to produce copies of the bank receipts proving foreign transfer of funds coming in to the bank, and fortunately I had obtained the most recent four of these and brought them along. None of those receipts were the "special form" mentioned in this thread, but were the normal ones provided by the bank, but each of them did have a blue official-looking bank stamp on them (I picked them up on July 31 at the bank as the bank was open that day.) The Bankok Bank branch I use can only print out the most recent 90 days of normal 1/2 sheet receipts and so the bank clerk had to go into another room to print out the oldest receipt I requested using a different computer system. That receipt was on a full size sheet of paper. The immigration officer spent some considerable time reading the full size receipt (perhaps it was a type she had not seen before) but said nothing and approved the renewal for another year.

Since I had brought in more than 800,000 Baht with those four transfers during the past seven months, I suppose that would have satisfied any question in the officer's mind about needing to produce a receipt for the "original" deposit (some seven years earlier)? So I am unable to tell if the 800,000 has to be brought in new every year or not. I hope not.

This is good news - for people with under the 20,000USD transfer.

You wont have to bring in a fresh 800k each year, at least, that rule doesnt exist now. Next month maybe but not now.

Rich

[RichardEllis]

I know Thailand resembles a banana republic more than anything else but they do say they *want* to join the developed world. Seems to me a considerable change of attitude ought to be necessary before that happens..

I am sure the US, UK and Australian embassies could give their Thai brothers some helpful pointers on immigration policy and consistency of implementation in "developed" countries!

bkkguy

Sure, they aren't perfect either. Thankfully you don't have to be perfect to help others. Just better, and I can tell you that IMHO the USA, UK and AUS policies are better and better implemented.

Rich

[RichardEllis]

I renewed my visa yesterday on the basis of having 800,000 baht in the bank. My balance is quite a bit in excess of that and when I got my letter, it included a reference to funds of 670,000 or so baht that I had transferred in March having been received from abroad. I had taken with me a print-out of my Isle of man account from where funds are transferred to my Bangkok Bank account as and when required, but didn't need to produce this.

There was a comment here that someone had been asked for proof of where that they lived where they claimed to be living so I attached a copy of the first page of my lease to all the other documentation that was required. Immigration in Pattaya didn't seem to be too interested, though they didn't remove it either. I also took copies of my latest rent receipts, but again these weren't required.

After 10 to 15 minutes, I was asked to go back this morning to pick up my passport, which I got immediately. I then applied for a multiple re-entry permit and was out within 10 minutes or so.

The whole operation was painless, as usual.

Alan

Well-prepared = painless. I also have not been asked for proof of place of residence though I took the ownership papers just in case. I guess the gnomes have discretion to request it if they feel it is needed. Or if the missus knocked them back last night... or you front up in full dirty raincoat garb

Rich

[oldmaverick]

I'm a long time retiree. I started receiving my retirement visa back in 1998 based on 800.000.Baht. Prior to that I was working in Bangkok with a valid work permit and visa f/6 years. When I arrived in Bangkok in 1989 I bought in money and checks from abroad. Cashed them at the Bangkok Bank but have long since destroyed all of those old bank books. I switched banks many times in the late 1990's as interest rates were 15%+ so I shopped for the best rates of return. I'm hoping I don't have to send another 800,000.Baht back to Thailand as I'll be scraping the barrel from my limited resources abroad. I was planning a visit to Imm Suan Plu but thought things might change before October when I apply for a new retirement visa.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[JetsetBkk]

I also don't want a nasty surprise years from now when trying to transfer my visa to a new passport, and then finding it is way too late to get this paper.

Someone just said this was easy? Really?

Yes, very easy. But you transfer your extension of stay stamp, re-entry stamp, etc, not the visa (which will be well past its expiry date). But get the new passport when there is about 9 months left on your old one - you can have problems with a passport having only 6 months validity left.

Ask at immigration - they do it free of charge.

[Jingthing]

I also don't want a nasty surprise years from now when trying to transfer my visa to a new passport, and then finding it is way too late to get this paper.

Someone just said this was easy? Really?

Yes, very easy. But you transfer your extension of stay stamp, re-entry stamp, etc, not the visa (which will be well past its expiry date). But get the new passport when there is about 9 months left on your old one - you can have problems with a passport having only 6 months validity left.

Ask at immigration - they do it free of charge.

You really didn't get my point, did you?

There is a report back in this thread that immigration demanded specific Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (used only for 20K USD plus transfers) or his visa would not be moved to a new passport. Some of us, for very good reasons, can NEVER produce that specific form. Someone else just cited another case where through no fault of their own, this would be completely impossible to produce.

So, I ask again, easy? Reasonable? Your rose colored glasses must be very lovely.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[JetsetBkk]

my letter, it included a reference to funds of 670,000 or so baht that I had transferred in March having been received from abroad. I had taken with me a print-out of my Isle of man account from where funds are transferred to my Bangkok Bank account as and when required, but didn't need to produce this.

So a bank letter stating that the funds came from abroad was accepted for your extension. Excellent.

[JetsetBkk]

You really didn't get my point, did you?

There is a report back in this thread that immigration demanded specific Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (used only for 20K USD plus transfers) or his visa would not be moved to a new passport. Some of us, for very good reasons, can NEVER produce that specific form. Someone else just cited another case where through no fault of their own, this would be completely impossible to produce.

So, I ask again, easy? Reasonable? Your rose colored glasses must be very lovely.

Well perhaps you'd better provide a link to that post because when I got my stamps transferred to my new passport, there was no mention of money or bank books at all.

[Jingthing]

You really didn't get my point, did you?

There is a report back in this thread that immigration demanded specific Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (used only for 20K USD plus transfers) or his visa would not be moved to a new passport. Some of us, for very good reasons, can NEVER produce that specific form. Someone else just cited another case where through no fault of their own, this would be completely impossible to produce.

So, I ask again, easy? Reasonable? Your rose colored glasses must be very lovely.

Well perhaps you'd better provide a link to that post because when I got my stamps transferred to my new passport, there was no mention of money or bank books at all.

When was that? We are talking about a new pattern of enforcement if you haven't noticed. Asking people for historical documents they had no idea they needed ... until now.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1458235

[Jingthing]

Do not believe the form posted in link is a normal wire transfer form but a special form for deposits of $20,000 or more used for condo type purchase or as proof of funds import to allow export. There is a wire transfer form about the size of a commercial check (although that may vary by bank) and suspect that is what they will want - all transfers should have these available if you ask for copies.

Thanks but, it is still not clear.

There is more than one post here already stating that a "smaller" form that looks like a commercial check is not accepted.

Clearly if you have a transfer over 20K USD, that Foreign Exchange Transaction Form for large transactions would be accepted.

Thus, I am still totally confused as exactly what to ask for that would satisfy immigrant now and years from now when they might ask for it at anytime (and by that time it will be too late to get such a historical document). For transfers under 20K USD that is.

Any chance there is a Thaivisa visa guru who has an inside to immigration can get us an official word on exactly what the form should be to show transfers under 20K?

Still reading tea leaves here ...

Edited August 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[chill]

Well, just for the fun of it, may I mention two more flies in the ointment....

Many of you refer to the special document issued when you bring in more than USD20,000.- into the country. I think its called a Tor Tor Sam or something similar. You may remember that back in January when the Bank of Thailand (BoT) issued an injunction that for amounts of more than USD 20,000.- remitted into the country, the BoT would require a 30% deposit, interest free, for one year. This caused the stock market (SET) to crash by 20%. The instruction was promptly revoked - or was it? Actually I think its still there and can be invoked at any time by the BoT, its just currently not being exercised. Please see http://www.bot.or.th/bothomepage/notificat...supv/EFipcs.asp

Filter through it and look at FI500. The notice of the competent officer dated 29Jan07 is relevant. Excemptions from this include commercial transactions, some investments in capital markets and commercial investments where the remitter has a >10% ownership of the investing company. You might find other exemptions but I don't think living expenses are one of them. But check it out.

Those of you who mentioned that they could bring money in, remit it back out and then remit it back in again are in for another shock. There are two types of Thai Baht; non-resident and domestic. Every Thai Baht account is either one or the other. For your visa requirements of the Baht 800,000.- the funds have to be in a domestic THB account and can't easily be remitted out again. Anyone trying to remit Thai Baht into the country instead of foreign currency is in for another shock. The difference in exchange is about 10%. In other words if you wish to buy non resident Thai bahts you will get 29.5 to the USD or 60 to the GBP. Don't ask your overseas bank to remit the funds here in Thai Baht because overseas banks only trade the non-resident funds and you will be screwed royally. However the good news is that you can reasonably easily remit non-resident funds back overseas. Remitting Domestic Thai Baht out of the country can be much more difficult.

Check the rate that you get when you use an overseas credit card either to purchase goods or to extract funds from an ATM. You may well decide to remit funds in foreign currency here to a local bank for credit to a domestic THB account and then use their locally issued ATM card for your daily needs.

Trying to be clever is not neccessarily being smart. Do it their way and make your life easier.

[Jingthing]

Chill,

I think most of us know to send our transfers into Thailand in the currency of the source bank (especially with the 2 tiered rates these days), but thanks for the reminder.

[chill]

I apologise for that previous posting, just problems with no solutions.

As I said in my very first post (that was my 3rd) the basic intentions are clear, however they may have been badly translated into English or even misunderstood by some of the immigration officials. As a result they have been interpreted differently in different immigration offices. In Phuket they are clear and have been laid out by the local Immigration Captain in English.

1. Hold a valid non-immigrant O visa.

2. Be 50 years of age, or older.

3. Have income from one of these sources:

3.1 Pension, Social Security, Interest or Dividend of not less than 65,000 baht per month.

or

3.2 Have not less than 800,000 baht deposited in any Thai bank account (savings or fixed-term account) for not less than three months before the application date. Account name must be only in the applicant’s name or may be a joint account in the name of the applicant and his/her registered married spouse only.

or

3.3 The applicant’s total income derived from 3.1 expected to be received over the 12-month period being applied for PLUS the money deposited in a Thai bank account for at least three months must not be less than 800,000 baht.

Application documents required:

1. Application form (TM7), which is provided by Immigration office.

2. A recent 2 x 2-inch photos of applicant.

3. Copy of passport (copy of face page and page with most recent Thai visa).

4. Evidence of income:

4.1 In case of applicant applying for permit to stay on the basis of receiving income while staying in Thailand (as listed in 3.1), the documents must be issued by the original source less than one month before the application date.

The applicant must show proof that money received from the above sources is spent in Thailand, such as Thai bankbooks and evidence of Thai credit card and cash card transactions.

4.2 In case of applicant applying for permit to stay on the basis of having 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account, applicants must provide a letter from the Thai bank and a copy of the bankbook showing the three months before the application date, proving that there is 800,000 in the account.

If the account has the spouse’s name, applicant must provide a copy of the marriage license.

4.3 In case of applicant applying for permit to stay on the basis of a combination of income and money deposited in a Thai bank account (see 3.3), applicants must show documents according to requirements listed in 4.2 and 4.3.

5. The Immigration Officer reviewing the application reserves the right to ask more additional documents.

Note: Any documents filed in languages other than Thai or English must be translated into Thai or English and the translation and the information the documents contain must be verified as accurate by the embassy or consul of the applicant’s home country.

The "intention" is that you should have either annual access to or income of THB 800,000.- from overseas per annum which you spend in Thailand. Yes, you can argue that the rules are not clear or that they can be interpreted to suit yourself and sometimes the official will let it fly. Other times they won't. Rule 5 is the clincher, if they don't want you they will invoke that and ask for a document that you can't provide. Unfortunately many of my friends come here on a retirement visa and then hope to support themselves from the profits of a girlie bar. I don't think that is what the Thais had in mind when they offered retirement visas. You should be retired with income from overseas supporting your lifestyle. If you can live on earnings from Thailand then you should perhaps be looking for a work visa.

[JetsetBkk]

You really didn't get my point, did you?

There is a report back in this thread that immigration demanded specific Foreign Exchange Transaction Form (used only for 20K USD plus transfers) or his visa would not be moved to a new passport. Some of us, for very good reasons, can NEVER produce that specific form. Someone else just cited another case where through no fault of their own, this would be completely impossible to produce.

So, I ask again, easy? Reasonable? Your rose colored glasses must be very lovely.

Well perhaps you'd better provide a link to that post because when I got my stamps transferred to my new passport, there was no mention of money or bank books at all.

When was that? We are talking about a new pattern of enforcement if you haven't noticed. Asking people for historical documents they had no idea they needed ... until now.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1458235

That was a year ago. The guy who renewed his passport started another thread here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1438637

It is not clear whether he tried transferring an extension of stay or his original visa. There may be different rules.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm going to jump in and point out one more thing that's barely been mentioned in the last 253 posts. ATTITUDE in front of the officers. Yes, they are mind readers, these Gods of all matters migratory, and they spend an entire career reading the minds of shifty, beady-eyed farang who seeth with resentment against their authority. Those uniforms mean they are police officers, with the power that implies, able to make arbitrary decisions that are almost not subject to review or appeal.

I don't just wear trousers and a nice shirt when I go to visit the Immigration Gods. I give them a wai that I might otherwise reserve for a monk or senior teacher, even if they're a young cleark. I smile, and smile, even when they ask me to take my clothes off. I'm willing to pass the Circumcision Test for the Immigration Gods, if they will please just give me another annual extension. What if they ask for a bank statement, when I've already overqualified by the pension method? Yes sir, God, you betcha, and I jumped on my motosai and returned in about 50 minutes with a fresh bank statement, which was not needed. Do they ask for another photo, or yet another page of my passport photocopied? Hey, it's only a few baht and the shop is right there on the grounds of the Gods.

I spent my career as an IRS God, and I was a great mind reader. One guy got really disrespectful, so the boss and I called two IRS police who brought .357 Magnums into the room to make the guy behave, and then they escorted him to his car. Do not tug on Superman's cape; don't let God know you do not believe in the power of the Immigration Gods.

This post is not directed at any specific poster. As the old story goes about the <deleted> bird, if the <deleted> shits, wear it.

[Sojourner]

I'm going to jump in and point out one more thing that's barely been mentioned in the last 253 posts. ATTITUDE in front of the officers. Yes, they are mind readers, these Gods of all matters migratory, and they spend an entire career reading the minds of shifty, beady-eyed farang who seeth with resentment against their authority. Those uniforms mean they are police officers, with the power that implies, able to make arbitrary decisions that are almost not subject to review or appeal.

I don't just wear trousers and a nice shirt when I go to visit the Immigration Gods. I give them a wai that I might otherwise reserve for a monk or senior teacher, even if they're a young cleark. I smile, and smile, even when they ask me to take my clothes off. I'm willing to pass the Circumcision Test for the Immigration Gods, if they will please just give me another annual extension. What if they ask for a bank statement, when I've already overqualified by the pension method? Yes sir, God, you betcha, and I jumped on my motosai and returned in about 50 minutes with a fresh bank statement, which was not needed. Do they ask for another photo, or yet another page of my passport photocopied? Hey, it's only a few baht and the shop is right there on the grounds of the Gods.

I spent my career as an IRS God, and I was a great mind reader. One guy got really disrespectful, so the boss and I called two IRS police who brought .357 Magnums into the room to make the guy behave, and then they escorted him to his car. Do not tug on Superman's cape; don't let God know you do not believe in the power of the Immigration Gods.

This post is not directed at any specific poster. As the old story goes about the <deleted> bird, if the <deleted> shits, wear it.

Spot on PeaceBlondie

[Krub]

I'm going to jump in and point out one more thing that's barely been mentioned in the last 253 posts. ATTITUDE in front of the officers. Yes, they are mind readers, these Gods of all matters migratory, and they spend an entire career reading the minds of shifty, beady-eyed farang who seeth with resentment against their authority. Those uniforms mean they are police officers, with the power that implies, able to make arbitrary decisions that are almost not subject to review or appeal.

I don't just wear trousers and a nice shirt when I go to visit the Immigration Gods. I give them a wai that I might otherwise reserve for a monk or senior teacher, even if they're a young cleark. I smile, and smile, even when they ask me to take my clothes off. I'm willing to pass the Circumcision Test for the Immigration Gods, if they will please just give me another annual extension. What if they ask for a bank statement, when I've already overqualified by the pension method? Yes sir, God, you betcha, and I jumped on my motosai and returned in about 50 minutes with a fresh bank statement, which was not needed. Do they ask for another photo, or yet another page of my passport photocopied? Hey, it's only a few baht and the shop is right there on the grounds of the Gods.

I spent my career as an IRS God, and I was a great mind reader. One guy got really disrespectful, so the boss and I called two IRS police who brought .357 Magnums into the room to make the guy behave, and then they escorted him to his car. Do not tug on Superman's cape; don't let God know you do not believe in the power of the Immigration Gods.

This post is not directed at any specific poster. As the old story goes about the <deleted> bird, if the <deleted> shits, wear it.

A very good summary, could not have written it better, exactly my attitude with the Gods

Great post, made my day !

Edited August 8, 2007 by Krub

[Naam]

"Immigration Gods"

i am getting more and more curious reading all that interesting experience with immigration. keep on reporting and i might go and meet one of these "Gods" personally. never had the pleasure until now.