Tax Return 2025

[Danderman123]

On 8/15/2024 at 7:49 AM, Everyman said:

 

On the contrary, since the new tax policy was brought in by the now defunct administration, I think this will be the nail in the coffin for any potential enforcement if there ever was any chance. 

This is a good point.

 

If the Digital Wallet can disappear, so can the new tax regulations.

[chiang mai]

20 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

I am not 'Tax Resident' in Thailand, I doubt that many retired expats are. 

Any retired expat who remains in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days each calendar year is considered to be tax resident here whether they like it or not. This is mot a matter of choice whether to be tac resident or not, if you remain here you are.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Once you file a tax return, you are in the clutches of the RD, and it won't be so easy to escape from the tax system.

 

I am bailing from Thailand for all but 179 days of the year.

As soon as you start to receive bank interest that has 15% withholding tax deducted, you are a part of the tax system. Once you receive a year long visa and your immigration record show you remained in country for more than 180 days in a calendar year, you are part of the tax system. Formalizing all of that by obtaining a TIN and filing a tax return (if needed), merely completes the formalities. 

 

I've been filing taxes here for 15 years, on and off. Some years I file, some years I don't need to file, I never hear from the TRD when I don't file and when I go to the TRD office the next year to file, nothing is ever said. Being "in the clutches" makes it sound like you're crossing a line that can never be uncrossed and that life will never be the same again, to which I say, nonsense. 

[brianthainess]

On 8/10/2024 at 3:51 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

There is no requirement to file a tax return, however there is a requirement to pay tax if any tax is due.

 

Should you decide not to pay any tax due and the TRD decides to audit you the invitation will be one that you cannot refuse 

If I had tax due my home country would tax me, not this mob, double taxed ? no way. 

[Danderman123]

On 8/13/2024 at 8:16 AM, koolkarl said:

So many clucking hens.  Thailand is a member of OECD and has signed the CRS agreement with more than 40 countries.  Thailand did this as there are advantages to Thailand.  If Thailand wants to keep these advantages, they must adhere to the rules of OECD and CRS.  Living in Thailand more than 180 days a year makes one a Thai tax resident, thus supposed to file a Thai tax return by March 2025.  It is easy for immigration to link your visa renewal to proof of you filing a Thai tax return, whether you like it or not.  The CRS effects are yet to be implemented. 

And easy for the Thai police to enforce the rules for wearing a motorcycle helmet, too.

 

 

[Danderman123]

Just now, brianthainess said:

If I had tax due my home country would tax me, not this mob, double taxed ? no way. 

You need to understand what a DTA is.

[chiang mai]

16 minutes ago, Sigmund said:

But how will the tax people know whom to send a tax return and who is staying more then 180 days ? Say the person who only stays for 3 months and has a bank account, how will the tax people know that the foreigner is only staying for 3 months per year and not go and tax him based on his having a bank account ?

TRD doesn't send out tax returns any more, the system is online. It's up to you to file or not file a return, TRD is passive throughout. They don't send you reminders, they don't track you down, it's down to you to make the right decision.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

As soon as you start to receive bank interest that has 15% withholding tax deducted, you are a part of the tax system. Once you receive a year long visa and your immigration record show you remained in country for more than 180 days in a calendar year, you are part of the tax system. Formalizing all of that by obtaining a TIN and filing a tax return (if needed), merely completes the formalities. 

 

I've been filing taxes here for 15 years, on and off. Some years I file, some years I don't need to file, I never hear from the TRD when I don't file and when I go to the TRD office the next year to file, nothing is ever said. Being "in the clutches" makes it sound like you're crossing a line that can never be uncrossed and that life will never be the same again, to which I say, nonsense. 

How much money is required in a savings account to accumulate enough interest for withholding to be used?

 

Asking for a friend.

 

Are we talking millions of baht?

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 Once you receive a year long visa and your immigration record show you remained in country for more than 180 days in a calendar year, you are part of the tax system. 

 

 

I believe you just invented a fantastic new capability of the Thai government.

Edited August 16 by Danderman123

[brianthainess]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You need to understand what a DTA is.

I do, to prevent double taxation, as I said.

[Danderman123]

On 8/12/2024 at 2:01 PM, JimGant said:

A good example is income from rental property. Most DTAs -- as most follow the OECD and UN Model tax treaty language -- give primary taxation authority to the country where the property is located, i.e., the situs country. BUT, since the treaty language says "may be taxed by the situs country" -- but doesn't say "may ONLY be taxed by the situs country" -- then the treaty gives the non situs country secondary taxation rights. [an ONLY in the clause gives exclusionary taxation rights.]

 

So, I'm a tax resident of Thailand, a US citizen, with rental income from a property in the US. My rental income is taxed by the US -- and as the situs country, thus the country with primary taxation authority -- they get to keep the entire kit and caboodle of taxation collected on that rental income. They do have to provide a tax credit for this US tax to Thailand -- since Thailand has secondary taxation authority per treaty.

 

So, knowing Thailand has secondary taxation rights on my rental income -- if remitted -- I take out the back of an envelope, add my rental income to whatever assessable remitted income I already have. And if suddenly I now owe Thai taxes -- or I owe more taxes -- based on the rental income --  I then net my US taxes on this rental income against the Thai taxes owed on the same income -- as the US taxes are a credit. If I get a negative number, I just forget declaring this rental income, since Thailand, as secondary taxation authority, eats dirt due to the tax credit they have to absorb. However, if it turns out, after the US tax credit, Thailand does get some tax revenue -- well, I have to adjust the amount of rental income I declare on the Thai tax return to result in the added Thai tax figure from this rental income. But no need to have tax credit lines on the Thai tax return -- just do this offline, as described above, and plug in the derived numbers that result in the correct tax owed. Obviously, keep your offline figuring in a safe place -- in case you need to explain your logic some day to the TRD,

 

Except for govt pensions -- and the rental example, above -- most DTAs have the country of residence as having either exclusionary, or primary, taxation authority -- meaning, they get to keep it all, and have to issue a tax credit to the secondary taxation authority country to absorb. The US, however, because of their Savings Clause -- always has at least secondary taxation rights -- even when the treaty gives exclusionary, or primary, taxation rights to country of residence. This in no away violates double taxation language in the treaties. Conversely, it just means US treaties prevent "no no taxtion" situations, i.e., you're gonna pay at least Uncle Sam.

Rental income from property in the US is not taxable in Thailand if you are a US citizen and the money is not remitted to Thailand.

[Danderman123]

8 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

I do, to prevent double taxation, as I said.

The DTA will give *some* protection from double taxation. Your home country tax payment serves as a credit towards your Thai tax.

 

However, if your home country tax rate is lower than the Thai rate, you may have to pay the difference to Thailand.

Edited August 16 by Danderman123

[brianthainess]

9 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You need to understand what a DTA is.

Double Tax Agreement read my post !

[Doctor Tom]

23 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Any ex-pat residing in Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year is a tax resident.

No, they are not.  Who spreads this nonsense 

[Doctor Tom]

19 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Any retired expat who remains in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days each calendar year is considered to be tax resident here whether they like it or not. This is mot a matter of choice whether to be tac resident or not, if you remain here you are.

No they are not.  Where in the visa regulations do you find this? 

[chiang mai]

9 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

How much money is required in a savings account to accumulate enough interest for withholding to be used?

 

Asking for a friend.

 

Are we talking millions of baht?

The first 20k baht of interest can be tax free at the bank, if they have a record of your TIN, 

[Danderman123]

Just now, Doctor Tom said:

No, they are not.  Who spreads this nonsense 

The Thai government.

 

“Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand.

[chiang mai]

Just now, Doctor Tom said:

No they are not.  Where in the visa regulations do you find this? 

Visa rules and tax law are two totally different and separate things.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

The first 20k baht of interest can be tax free at the bank, if they have a record of your TIN, 

How much money has to be stashed in a Thai bank account to generate 20K baht in interest?

[chiang mai]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

How much money has to be stashed in a Thai bank account to generate 20K baht in interest?

It depends on the interest rate! 100k baht at 5% interest is 5k, 400k baht at 5k is 20k. 800k baht at 2.5% is 20k, and so on.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

It depends on the interest rate! 100k baht at 5% interest is 5k, 400k baht at 5k is 20k. 800k baht at 2.5% is 20k, and so on.

I suspect many people have Thai bank accounts at close to zero interest.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

It depends on the interest rate! 100k baht at 5% interest is 5k, 400k baht at 5k is 20k. 800k baht at 2.5% is 20k, and so on.

Who is confused at simple math, if folks can't work this out, they shouldn't have bank accounts!

[chiang mai]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

I suspect many people have Thai bank accounts at close to zero interest.

I don't see why, I earn at least 1.5% from UOB.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I suspect many people have Thai bank accounts at close to zero interest.

https://thailand.deposits.org/deposits/

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

I suspect many people have Thai bank accounts at close to zero interest.

https://thailand.deposits.org/deposits/

 

The initial question was about Savings account, which yield about 0.5%.

 

https://thailand.deposits.org/savings-accounts/

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

The initial question was about Savings account, which yield about 0.5%.

 

https://thailand.deposits.org/savings-accounts/

Sorry, I didn't see that part, I just kinda jumped in and responded to something I read that I felt needed to be corrected, mea culpa. Soooo, if the question is how much and how long before a yield of 0.5% incurs tax etc etc....about 4 mill plus for one year will generate 20k which might be free of tax at the bank and negate the need to file a return.

[Yumthai]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Sorry, I didn't see that part, I just kinda jumped in and responded to something I read that I felt needed to be corrected, mea culpa. Soooo, if the question is how much and how long before a yield of 0.5% incurs tax etc etc....about 4 mill plus for one year will generate 20k which might be free of tax at the bank and negate the need to file a return.

Better up-to-date Thai banks interest rates info here:

 

https://www.bot.or.th/en/statistics/interest-rate.html

[Doctor Tom]

 

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

 

This may help:

 

 

[acepredator]

On 8/11/2024 at 9:48 AM, KhunHeineken said:

A DTA ensures the same money is not taxed twice.  A DTA does not ensure the money is only taxed in one country. 

 

What you post about is a common myth, which this guy explains quite well.

 

 

 

Wrong. Under Article 20, subsection 1. of the DTA between The United States and Thailand, government pensions, which means Social Security, can only be taxed by the United States government. Under subsection 3. of Article 20, annuities, which pay out funds in predetermined amounts at regular time intervals, also can only be taxed by the United States tax authorities. Maybe the DTA between your country and Thailand says something different.