2 hours ago, john donson said:

 

lol... try convert a mosque to a church, in ANY muslim country...  racist...

This thread is about Christianity and Islam. Which one of those is a race?

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

It's a grade 2 listed building that has clearly seen better days and is in need of restoration.

 

If a charity are prepared to take it on and spend money on it, as the article suggests, why not?

 

Because we're all suspicious fools....  and rightly or wrongly so we suspect that some of us identify that this is not a simple bid for a building to be turned into flats, but a bid to 'point score' in the battle between Christianity and Islam...   

 

... One more step in a battle many of us don't really identify with or recognise, but at some point will ultimately see as a growingly problematic situation, one which is now witnessed in cities across the UK and an element of segregation is developing rather than the serendipitous cosmopolitan nature we expect of cities in a well developed nation. 

 

Turn it into a block of flats - we have a housing shortage, not a Muslim shortage in the UK. 

 

Apologies if that seems islamaphobic - but it is...    its a difficult conversation to have, but I am finding a growing dislike in the manner by which British identity is being eroded in the UK city centres and major towns due to fear of appearing 'Islamaphobic'... never before has there been a better time in the UK for a minority to grow towards a threatening majority than the current day political correctness and wokeness further enables..       and if that sounds harsh its meant to... 

 

...  I can't speak out publicly, for I'll get called racist and Islamaphobic...   Yet I can sit in a cafe in Jakarta, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, KL, Doha, Istanbul, Sulaymaniyah and discuss these issues (quietly) and find mutual agreement with my Muslim friends...   the Islam they see in the British news is not the Islam they practice. 

 

The UK is facing a degree of extremism which is a departure from the moral standards of many of my muslim friends, more general than that, the standards are a departure from those of any friend, no matter culture, colour, creed or education and that is frightening - and its led by people wanting to possess a Church, for they see it as some kind of Islamic win....   

 

...  I've worked over enough of the world to news like this for what it is...    

 

At least others are seeing through the facade...   

 

Example at hand... Hagia Sophia in Istanbul - an incredible structure, once a Church, now a Mosque, open to all visitors - at one point a symbol of peace and mutual respect across a religious divide - open for all to respect and witness the architectural might...  and now, Non Muslims cannot enter the ground floor but are forced to walk around a viewing balcony on the second floor...   (that happened in the last couple of years) - but is a measure of the strangle-hold with which Islam is starting grasping at the throat of the West...      and this attempt to purchase a church is similar... 

 

As already mentioned - there's a housing crisis - turn it into flats !!!... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 20241 yr by richard_smith237

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Because we're all suspicious fools....  and rightly or wrongly so we suspect that some of us identify that this is not a simple bid for a building to be turned into flats, but a bid to 'point score' in the battle between Christianity and Islam...   

 

... One more step in a battle many of us don't really identify with or recognise, but at some point will ultimately see as a growingly problematic situation, one which is now witnessed in cities across the UK and an element of segregation is developing rather than the serendipitous cosmopolitan nature we expect of cities in a well developed nation. 

 

Turn it into a block of flats - we have a housing shortage, not a Muslim shortage in the UK. 

 

Apologies if that seems islamaphobic - but it is...    its a difficult conversation to have, but I am finding a growing dislike in the manner by which British identity is being eroded in the UK city centres and major towns due to fear of appearing 'Islamaphobic'... never before has there been a better time in the UK for a minority to grow towards a threatening majority than the current day political correctness and wokeness further enables..       and if that sounds harsh its meant to... 

 

...  I can't speak out publicly, for I'll get called racist and Islamaphobic...   Yet I can sit in a cafe in Jakarta, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, KL, Doha, Istanbul, Sulaymaniyah and discuss these issues (quietly) and find mutual agreement with my Muslim friends...   the Islam they see in the British news is not the Islam they practice. 

 

The UK is facing a degree of extremism which is a departure from the moral standards of many of my muslim friends, more general than that, the standards are a departure from those of any friend, no matter culture, colour, creed or education and that is frightening - and its led by people wanting to possess a Church, for they see it as some kind of Islamic win....   

 

...  I've worked over enough of the world to news like this for what it is...    

 

At least others are seeing through the facade...   

 

Example at hand... Hagia Sophia in Istanbul - an incredible structure, once a Church, now a Mosque, open to all visitors - at one point a symbol of peace and mutual respect across a religious divide - open for all to respect and witness the architectural might...  and now, Non Muslims cannot enter the ground floor but are forced to walk around a viewing balcony on the second floor...   (that happened in the last couple of years) - but is a measure of the strangle-hold with which Islam is starting grasping at the throat of the West...      and this attempt to purchase a church is similar... 

 

As already mentioned - there's a housing crisis - turn it into flats !!!... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear.

 

All that because a charity wants to set up a centre for the community.

Edited August 30, 20241 yr by youreavinalaff

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Oh dear.

 

All that because a charity wants to set up a centre for the community.

 

Sure thing...     where is the next Taliban community centre you'll visit ?... 

 

 

Context is missed. The Anglican Church does not object  its former properties being repurposed for community benefit through occupancies such as social housing , or the provision of public services like libraries or social service centers, with emphasis on "public".  The reality of  recent muslim based acquisitions is that the properties eventually become centers of exclusivity where non muslims are unwelcome or made to feel uncomfortable.   Please look at who the Zamir Foundation is. It is Pakistani focused and has operations in Afghanistan. No organization is allowed to operate in Afghanistan now unless it follows Taliban requirements. There is a reason why most western NGOs have left Afghanistan.

 

The Anglican Church seeks to maintain its policies of respect for all people without discriminating on the basis of  gender, religion, or sexual orientation. The proposed facilities would require strict adherence to Islamic cultural practices. This is contrary to the current Church policy.  Reference is made to a former Church being  transformed into a bar. This is the reason why new redevelopment restrictions are more robust. Also lost in the criticism is the historical significance of the building. The Church wishes to respect local history and to preserve as much as the history as is physically possible.

 

 

11 hours ago, retarius said:

Racism pure and simple. The UK has always been a racist country.

 

Perhaps. However, that is a subject unrelated to this redevelopment. I suggest you look at who the  developrs are and what their current practices are.

 

10 hours ago, mokwit said:

What annoys me about Muslims taking over Churches is that they see it as a "victory" of Islam over Christianity, rather than seeing it is really only them that still believe the stories.

 

Understood. The In the UK, many mosques are hubs of hate radicalizing the vulnerable and preaching views that are contrary to national social policy. Hate preaching is not infrequent.

 

10 hours ago, BusyB said:

Really?

 

Yes.  Ever hear of Anjem Choudhary?

3 hours ago, Gobbler said:

The answer is: YES!

 

   So any Muslims who complains about the Temple of David being rebuilt over a Mosque in Jerusalem would be a racist Muslim ?

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sure thing...     where is the next Taliban community centre you'll visit ?... 

 

 

You make a list of Taliban run community centres in UK and I'll let you know which is closest to me.

13 hours ago, retarius said:

Racism pure and simple. The UK has always been a racist country.

 

There are racists in the UK -  as there are in every country - but you'll need a bit more evidence than that to suggest that the UK is a racist country.

7 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Oh dear.

 

All that because a charity wants to set up a centre for the community.

Oh dear, so naive.

17 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

Too many!!

 

And we already have too many places of worship in the UK for Muslims.

 

An intolerant, bigoted, self-serving, violent, full of misyogism, evil religion.

 

There is a covenant stating it cannot be used as a place of worship unless it's Christianity. ....... Period.

 

this should answer all of your thoughts...

 

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

If the Christians and the English church revere it so much, why is it not open with a thriving Christian community, instead of being shuttered and closed down?

 

 

22 hours ago, retarius said:

Racism pure and simple. The UK has always been a racist country.

 

I very much doubt it.  It's more of an acknowledgement that Muslims try to demonstrate their "superiority" by taking over the religious structures of other religions and converting them into a mosque.  Most prominently, at Ayodhya the Babri mosque was built over a Hindu temple at the birth place of the god Rama, and in Turkey the Christian cathedral Hagia Sophia was converted to a mosque.  However, this sort of Muslim behaviour is extremely common.  This is the Church of England refusing to bow down to Islamic supremacism - not racism.

10 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sure thing...     where is the next Taliban community centre you'll visit ?... 

 

 

You make a list of Taliban run community centres in UK and I'll let you know which is closest to me.

 

Just run a search for Zamir Foundation community centres in the UK... 

 

I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms... careful not to lose your head....

6 hours ago, mokwit said:

Oh dear, so naive.

Not at all.

 

I read the article. It's all there. Why don't you try to read it?

 

 

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Just run a search for Zamir Foundation community centres in the UK... 

 

I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms... careful not to lose your head....

You said Taliban. 

10 hours ago, RayC said:

On 8/30/2024 at 12:26 PM, retarius said:

Racism pure and simple. The UK has always been a racist country.

 

There are racists in the UK -  as there are in every country - but you'll need a bit more evidence than that to suggest that the UK is a racist country.

 

Particularly as the nation which put an end to world slavery, cost Britain 40% of its National Budget at the time (1833), that money borrowed to compensate slave owners as part of the Slavery Abolition Act was not paid back until 2014,

 

In effect the many UK Citizens still living have helped pay for the end of the slave trade with their taxes.

 

What other countries could say that.

 

 

The UK is not a racist country - but its one whose populace is become tired of having its identity stripped. 

 

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Just run a search for Zamir Foundation community centres in the UK... 

 

I'm sure you'll be welcomed with open arms... careful not to lose your head....

You said Taliban. 

 

Surely after checking this out you are aware of link between the Zamir Foundation and Afghanistan then... 

 

 

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Surely after checking this out you are aware of link between the Zamir Foundation and Afghanistan then... 

 

 

You said Taliban.

16 hours ago, Gobbler said:

The word mutant is out of line.

 

OK, let's just settle for weird, hate and bile fueled instead.

14 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Context is missed. The Anglican Church does not object  its former properties being repurposed for community benefit through occupancies such as social housing , or the provision of public services like libraries or social service centers, with emphasis on "public".  The reality of  recent muslim based acquisitions is that the properties eventually become centers of exclusivity where non muslims are unwelcome or made to feel uncomfortable.   Please look at who the Zamir Foundation is. It is Pakistani focused and has operations in Afghanistan. No organization is allowed to operate in Afghanistan now unless it follows Taliban requirements. There is a reason why most western NGOs have left Afghanistan.

 

The Anglican Church seeks to maintain its policies of respect for all people without discriminating on the basis of  gender, religion, or sexual orientation. The proposed facilities would require strict adherence to Islamic cultural practices. This is contrary to the current Church policy.  Reference is made to a former Church being  transformed into a bar. This is the reason why new redevelopment restrictions are more robust. Also lost in the criticism is the historical significance of the building. The Church wishes to respect local history and to preserve as much as the history as is physically possible.

 

 

 

Perhaps. However, that is a subject unrelated to this redevelopment. I suggest you look at who the  developrs are and what their current practices are.

 

 

Understood. The In the UK, many mosques are hubs of hate radicalizing the vulnerable and preaching views that are contrary to national social policy. Hate preaching is not infrequent.

 

 

Yes.  Ever hear of Anjem Choudhary?

 

Ever hear of Steven Yaxley-Lennon?

 

Does he speak and represent all British people? 

17 hours ago, BusyB said:

 

Ever hear of Steven Yaxley-Lennon?

 

Does he speak and represent all British people? 

 

He does not benefit from tax free status and use a designated place of religious freedom to promote his political views. Nor has he ever demanded the death of any particular religious group. Nor has he ever advocated for violence against his nation. A key difference is that the man is watched and sanctioned by the police for even minor infractions. There are many English people who disagree with him and criticize his views.

In contrast are known hate preachers like Anjem Choudary who has benefited from the generous benefits of the UK, while actively  pursuing violent actions against its citizens, and who has never  been rebuked or criticized by the muslim community as a whole.