Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

....... none of us fully understand how that cross border identification process works or will work. 

So pointless to spread fear and misinformation about it then.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

As I mentioned you can open an account in Singapore/HK as a Thai resident with/without providing a Thai TIN.

I don't think we're talking about just wealthy people who can buy their way into and out of many scenarios, I think the subject is the average person.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

So pointless to spread fear and misinformation about it then.

For the very last time, BM, the issue is not what you want to talk about, the topic in debate is tax residency. 

[Danderman123]

You International businesspeople may be concerned about the impact of these new proposed Thai tax laws on your business empires,  but my interest is whether there is any new news about the plan to force Farangs to leave Thailand by imposing onerous taxation.

Edited October 13 by Danderman123

[Rolo89]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

OK, fair enough. The point here is that not being tax resident somewhere makes it so much harder to do business and conduct your financial affairs with mainstream businesses. Over time, that will become stricter as more countries join CRS.

I agree with you there. Not being a tax resident of anywhere presents some issues and the situation is ever changing. Like if I wanted a mortgage I'd have lots of difficulties. But that's not something I'm going to do - these new buildings in Bangkok are built so poorly.

 

If it becomes too difficult being a tax resident of nowhere in the future then an easy fix is becoming a resident of a low tax country. There's a fair few options for that.

 

It's not really hard to do business, my business entity is registered abroad and has no issues with banking.

Edited October 13 by Rolo89

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

For the very last time, BM, the issue is not what you want to talk about, the topic in debate is tax residency. 

Wrong again, topic is "Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress". Did you forget in which thread you're posting?

 

And I'm asking how would the Thai tax authorities know who you were in the UK, and unless you move money direct from a UK bank account to a Thai bank account they probably won't as there's no connection.

Edited October 13 by BritManToo

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Rolo89 said:

I agree with you there. Not being a tax resident of anywhere presents some issues and the situation is ever changing. Like if I wanted a mortgage I'd have lots of difficulties. But that's not something I'm going to do - these new buildings in Bangkok are built so poorly.

 

If it becomes too difficult being a tax resident of nowhere in the future then an easy fix is becoming a resident of a low tax country. There's a fair few options for that.

 

It's not really hard to do business, my business entity is registered abroad and has no issues with banking.

We agree.

[Rolo89]

33 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

You can open an international non-resident multi-currency bank account in "better" countries like Singapore, HK, UAE, Jersey/IOM,... if you fulfill their financial requirements (premium/priority/private account generally starting at low 6 figures $ AUM). These banks (DBS, OCBC, UOB, Standard Chartered, Citibank, HSBC,...) will understand that, as a Thai resident, you can't provide a Thai TIN if you have no taxable income in Thailand (but it's not so difficult to get one either then stay < 180 days a year in Thailand).

HK don't really allow this anymore after their laundering of drugs money and those fines. If you have a HKID it's easy to open a personal bank account, but not as a foreigner. The big banks wont even consider a business unless their turnover is at least half a million USD.

 

Wasn't like this before all their fines. They closed my HK personal bank account.

[Yumthai]

4 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I don't think we're talking about just wealthy people who can buy their way into and out of many scenarios, I think the subject is the average person.

Cambodia was mentioned, some banks with international background are in my opinion reliable: ABA, CIMB, BRED ...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_Cambodia

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Wrong again, topic is "Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress". Did you forget in which thread you're posting?

 

And I'm asking how would the Thai tax authorities know who you were in the UK, and unless you move money direct from a UK bank account to a Thai bank account they probably won't as there's no connection.

That may be the thread topic but it wasn't the point being discussed when you joined in !

 

I/we understand your personal paranoia about being not detected but don't confuse that with my/our desire to understand how all the pieces of this jig saw puzzle interact. 

 

And if you can't figure out the answer to your question, there's no hope. Once clue might be name and DOB, another clue might be those things and passport number. The main clue however is that government agencies and departments talk to each other, in most countries, if one wants to know who somebody is, they ask. If you think that's scaremongering , again, there's no hope.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Cambodia was mentioned, some banks with international background are in my opinion reliable: ABA, CIMB, BRED ...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_Cambodia

Those are not international banks, there are some international names but they are Cambodian banks, regulated by the Cambodian central bank, just as in Thailand. UOB and CIMB are both Thai companies here.

[ChaiyaTH]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

OK, understood, the trading accounts is a sensible option.

 

If a person wants to bank in countries like Cambodia then they probably can escape tax residency for a while yet. But if you want to bank in countries where banking is better regulated and the home currency is safer, it's going to be extremely difficult.

What you talk about can just open a USD account there too, that is their main used currency.

[GammaGlobulin]

Might be difficult to get blood from a stone, though...

 

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

That may be the thread topic but it wasn't the point being discussed when you joined in !

 

I/we understand your personal paranoia about being not detected but don't confuse that with my/our desire to understand how all the pieces of this jig saw puzzle interact. 

 

And if you can't figure out the answer to your question, there's no hope. Once clue might be name and DOB, another clue might be those things and passport number. The main clue however is that government agencies and departments talk to each other, in most countries, if one wants to know who somebody is, they ask. If you think that's scaremongering , again, there's no hope.

 

Boy you seem very motivated to make sure everyone gets in the tax line..

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

What you talk about can just open a USD account there too, that is their main used currency.

That negates exchange rate risk but not all the other risks of banking there.

[chiang mai]

15 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Boy you seem very motivated to make sure everyone gets in the tax line..

Especially you Redwood.

[JackGats]

6 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Can a British subject open a bank account and receive payment without tax residency somewhere? I'm a Brit and not UK UK resident for tax purposes but they wont let me keep my UK bank account, unless I give them a a TIN from somewhere.

Well what are you waiting for then? Get a Thai TIN asap! Then feed the Thai TIN to your UK bank. Do you prefer to risk losing your UK bank accounts just for the sake of not wasting 25 minutes at a Thai RD office in order to get a Thai TIN? As has been said before, having a Thai TIN is no game-changer as fare a taxation by Thailand is concerned. You can have a Thai TIN and not stay 180 days in Thailand.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Well what are you waiting for then? Get a Thai TIN asap! Then feed the Thai TIN to your UK bank. Do you prefer to risk losing your UK bank accounts just for the sake of not wasting 25 minutes at a Thai RD office in order to get a Thai TIN? As has been said before, having a Thai TIN is no game-changer as fare a taxation by Thailand is concerned. You can have a Thai TIN and not stay 180 days in Thailand.

Er, I've had a Thai TIN and have been filing a That tax return for over ten years.

[JackGats]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

As I mentioned you can open an account in Singapore/HK as a Thai resident with/without providing a Thai TIN.

But the Singapore bank can be a pain in the neck. It will want utility bills (not always easy to get in Thailand). It will demand copies of your passport at regular intervals, to be certified at the Singapore embassy in Bangkok.

[Yumthai]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

But the Singapore bank can be a pain in the neck. It will want utility bills (not always easy to get in Thailand). It will demand copies of your passport at regular intervals, to be certified at the Singapore embassy in Bangkok.

Not the experience I have. 

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, Rolo89 said:

HK don't really allow this anymore after their laundering of drugs money and those fines. If you have a HKID it's easy to open a personal bank account, but not as a foreigner. The big banks wont even consider a business unless their turnover is at least half a million USD.

 

Wasn't like this before all their fines. They closed my HK personal bank account.

Experiences and profiles vary. A friend, Thai resident, was able to open last year a priority account with Standard Chartered HK. He had to let/invest HKD1,000,000 equivalent.

[Rolo89]

14 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Experiences and profiles vary. A friend, Thai resident, was able to open last year a priority account with Standard Chartered HK. He had to let/invest HKD1,000,000 equivalent.

Well it's not impossible. But it's very difficult now and it used to be very easy.

 

If you don't have a HKID but have connections to HK and are a high net individual it's possible. But even that can take a while. 

 

Buisness HK account is a whole lot more difficult.

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Experiences and profiles vary. A friend, Thai resident, was able to open last year a priority account with Standard Chartered HK. He had to let/invest HKD1,000,000 equivalent.

 

Interesting as 1 million HKD is only about $130k USD

I suspect that if you're willing to stick a bunch of money into some account somewhere they may ask some questions about where you are at the time of opening the account but that can change on a yearly basis and they're not auditing you every year.
 

[Stocky]

3 hours ago, JackGats said:

But the Singapore bank can be a pain in the neck. It will want utility bills (not always easy to get in Thailand). It will demand copies of your passport at regular intervals, to be certified at the Singapore embassy in Bangkok.

Not my experience. They accepted a bank statement as proof of address, and they've never demanded a certified copy of my passport. That's with HSBC Singapore.

 

.

Edited October 13 by Stocky

[ukrules]

On the subject of tax residency I would like to raise a point about when it is determined that you're non resident or resident.

This is an example which pretty much matches my 2024 travel movements for the year.

Lets say I stay in Thailand from Jan 1 for 177 days and then fly to Cambodia and stay there until late December.

If I return to Thailand on December 29 I will be a tax resident in Thailand for the entire year but if I return on December 30 I won't be a tax resident in Thailand.

 

Nobody is calling their bank on December 29 / 30 to tell them that they're not tax resident for the year and the whole thing resets to zero 3 days later.

 

Come Jan 1, 2025 nobody really knows if they will be alive for the next 180 days let alone present in Thailand. They may have plans and intentions but those can change on a whim.

If I got on a plane and flew to Thailand tomorrow and stayed for a couple of weeks I would become tax resident but I'm probably not going to do that, however it won't be determined 100% until the last few days in December

 

Oh, my point : You  might not know if you're a tax resident in Thailand until the last day or two of the year and then it resets on Jan 1 - so there's not really anything to report to anyone and nobody is going to call asking at that time.

If they were to call you on Jan 1, then you're back in Thailand, nobody knows if they're resident until they've been in Thailand for the full 180 days.

 

Edited October 13 by ukrules

[jayboy]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Er, I've had a Thai TIN and have been filing a That tax return for over ten years.

 

And your point is?

 

I think JackGast was saying that getting a TIN is relatively simple and that one doesn't need to be a tax resident to do so.My understanding is that possession of a TIN does not compel one to submit tax return even as a tax resident if one has no assessable income.I freely admit I may be wrong about the latter part,

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

And your point is?

 

I think JackGast was saying that getting a TIN is relatively simple and that one doesn't need to be a tax resident to do so.My understanding is that possession of a TIN does not compel one to submit tax return even as a tax resident if one has no assessable income.I freely admit I may be wrong about the latter part,

I don't have a point, was only responding to JG's comment.

 

You'll be hard o0ressed to get a TIN without first having a long stay visa and secondly, demonstrating a need. Many have tried, many have failed because they don't meet that criteria.

 

[chiang mai]

17 minutes ago, ukrules said:

On the subject of tax residency I would like to raise a point about when it is determined that you're non resident or resident.

This is an example which pretty much matches my 2024 travel movements for the year.

Lets say I stay in Thailand from Jan 1 for 177 days and then fly to Cambodia and stay there until late December.

If I return to Thailand on December 29 I will be a tax resident in Thailand for the entire year but if I return on December 30 I won't be a tax resident in Thailand.

 

Nobody is calling their bank on December 29 / 30 to tell them that they're not tax resident for the year and the whole thing resets to zero 3 days later.

 

Come Jan 1, 2025 nobody really knows if they will be alive for the next 180 days let alone present in Thailand. They may have plans and intentions but those can change on a whim.

If I got on a plane and flew to Thailand tomorrow and stayed for a couple of weeks I would become tax resident but I'm probably not going to do that, however it won't be determined 100% until the last few days in December

 

Oh, my point : You  might not know if you're a tax resident in Thailand until the last day or two of the year and then it resets on Jan 1 - so there's not really anything to report to anyone and nobody is going to call asking at that time.

If they were to call you on Jan 1, then you're back in Thailand, nobody knows if they're resident until they've been in Thailand for the full 180 days.

 

TRD doesn't plan to micro manage the movements of all foreigners in Thailand and start counting days for each of them. No country's Revenue does that, it only comes into play if your areaudited or queried about your return.

[Ricohoc]

16 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

possession of a TIN does not compel one to submit tax return even as a tax resident if one has no assessable income.I freely admit I may be wrong about the latter part,

 

After speaking to a representative at my local TRD office on Friday, as a tax resident, we are expected to file a return whether we have assessable income or not -- whether we owe or not -- if we are here 180 days or more each year.

Edited October 13 by Ricohoc

[jayboy]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

don't have a point, was only responding to JG's comment.

 

Didn't seem to address it.But never mind - not important.

4 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

You'll be hard o0ressed to get a TIN without first having a long stay visa and secondly, demonstrating a need. Many have tried, many have failed because they don't meet that criteria.

 

You will be better informed than me so I will defer.