Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[Mike Lister]

Just now, hcvc said:

Seeking some clarification on monies I remitted to Thailand in 2023.

 

Three banks in the US.

Bank (A) receives payments from my IRS - Traditional IRA.

Bank (B) receives pension payments which may be taxable under the DTA. Bank (C) consists of savings accrued prior to my coming to Thailand.

 

In 2023 I only utilized Bank (C) to remit money to Thailand. Savings accrued prior to my coming to Thailand.

 

My questions – relating to tax rules in place before January 2024.

 

Are funds derived from savings and remitted to Thailand considered taxable income?

 

Is income held in a US bank (Bank A and Bank B) - but not remitted directly to Thailand considered assessable and/or taxable income by the Thai Revenue Department?

 

Any helpful insights to my questions will be appreciated.

Funds derived from savings are not tax assessable in Thailand.

 

Only funds remitted to Thailand are potentially tax assessable.

[Martin71]

 

19 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Funds derived from savings are not tax assessable in Thailand.

 

Only funds remitted to Thailand are potentially tax assessable.

 

Good Day..

 Just a quickie.... would winnings from premium bonds be assessable, they were all bought many moons ago (easily proven) with money I earned and payed tax on (UK).

 

Apologies if this has already been covered...

 

Cheers.. Martin71..

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Martin71 said:

 

 

Good Day..

 Just a quickie.... would winnings from premium bonds be assessable, they were all bought many moons ago (easily proven) with money I earned and payed tax on (UK).

 

Apologies if this has already been covered...

 

Cheers.. Martin71..

It depends on their present form. If they are presently liquid savings that were banked before 1 January 2024, yes, they are tax exempt savings. If they are liquid and banked after that date, I don't know, we've not had that one before. 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

8 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I was harassed by one of the fake Thai police station call centre scams for months.

This is truly concerning! How did you deal with this? Did you file a report to the police?

[Martin71]

Cheers Mike..

 Many thanks for the time and trouble you have spent creating these guides... sure they have helped many folks....

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

This is truly concerning! How did you deal with this? Did you file a report to the police?

 

It was scary but I figured it out after about 5 minutes of the first call. I asked for his name and rank, unit and office address and said I would search online for that unit and it's phone number and would call him back on the fixed line.  He kept giving me the name of a police unit but when repeated my request for the other details he just kept rabbiting on.  So eventually I hung up.  About 10 minutes later I got another call from another voice but with the same background noise. So I hung up.  Then I was showered with calls that I didn't answer for about 3 hours.  After the first two or three I noticed they were all 06 mobile numbers which are TRUE I think.  I guess someone bought a job lot of TRUE pre-paid numbers.  So I blocked any 06 number that tried to call since then.  In the first few weeks they came nearly every day two or three times.  Then less frequent.  I may have blocked some genuine callers with 06 numbers but I figured they would send a message, if it was important.

 

Doing some research I later read a quote from a senior cop well acquainted with this scam who said the police never contact people by phone regarding an investigation.  They either send a witness summons by mail or show up with an arrest warrant.  I didn't report it to the police because I hadn't suffered any financial loss and didn't expect they would do anything, even though they could trace the buyer of the pre-paid numbers.  I am sure many of the master minds have police protection.  It is tempting to swear at the scammers or at least report them but I thought twice because they have my name and address and other personal details, may be well connected with police and I have a 3 year old who plays in the streets or our village. 

 

It is a clever scam because people get scared when they think it is the cops and many people have done illegal or grey area transactions.  One actor, I think, paid the scammers a couple of hundred thousand not to investigate him further which implied he felt guilty about something.

 

It is a digression but my original point is that there are tax scams around and once you are in the tax net, you can be more easily scammed.  One that a lot of people have been caught by is scammers pretending to be RD inspectors who have discovered some undeclared income, something many Thais are obviously guilty of doing.  They also demand a pay off to drop the case. Another is that they call to let you know you have a tax refund coming and ask for your bank details to pay it, then syphon money from your account.  One thing worrying here is that RD officials do call taxpayers on their mobile phones and there is no easy way to verify them.  They will give their names, if you ask them but not otherwise.  I have had them call about my company and personal tax accounts.   But they have no need to call to ask for bank details for a refund.  They make refunds via the PromptPay system and have the ability to find you PromptPay account, if you have one, and will make the refund automatically, just sending an SMS to inform it has been done. Given the level of corruption and cybercrime in Thailand, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that a scammer will have all your personal details including your TIN to help convince you.  Best thing if you are not sure is to ask for their name, department and address and you will find it online call them back on the fixed line. If it is hard to make out what they are saying, tell them to send you an SMS, if they are calling your mobile. Personally I don't think RD officials should be allowed to call taxpayers direct, as it opens the way to corruption and scamming but sometimes they are just calling to be helpful, i.e. requesting missing documents for you to claim deductions.

Edited May 27 by Dogmatix

[Mason45]

I got knocked back for the Australian aged pension as I didn't return to Australia 2 years before it was due. So I sold my home in Australia and I invested the proceeds into a term deposit fund at 5% per annum. I only send money to Thailand when needed, living expenses etc. Will that money be taxable in Thailand. I don't need to send any large sums as I own a house in Bangkok, my condo in Pattaya and I own a 4 years old car. Thanks.

[Dogmatix]

10 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

A Monday morning update regarding the contents of the list of unknowns/unclear issues.

 

k) - how does the TRD distinguish between principal (funds from legacy investments, inheritance, original investment principal) versus earnings (interest, dividends, remuneration) from commingled funds, determination of applicable foreign currency exchange rates for tax assessment, etc. 

 

P) - Returned to the list: The issue of whether income earned in a year when tax resident but remitted to Thailand in a year when not tax resident………….is it taxable? Many contradictory reports on this, even from within TRD and tax consultants themselves. 

 

Q) - Does the TRD regard credit card spending in Thailand, using a foreign credit card, assessable income. The early indication on this point is yes, it does.

 

R) - Is foreign loan monies remitted to Thailand, considered assessable income, eg for the purchase of a vehicles, condos, property, etc. 

 

S) -  If a foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, is the foreigner required to report that income, as if they themselves had received it directly?

 

 

K) The RD publishes an order setting applicable exchange rates for a multitude of currencies  from time to time.  I think it is quarterly.  You can find these orders on the RD website.  For the rest there are no regulations or guidelines AFAIK which implies, unfortunately that it is left up to the discretion of individual officers to interpret.  International accounts for Thais to invest abroad have existed at Thai brokerages for over 10 years.  So these cases must have come up quite a lot where Thai investors didn't want to wait till the next year to remit gains.  You or your wife could enquire about opening an international account with a Thai broker and ask them to clarify these matters which they must have had to advise their clients about over the years. 

 

P) A straight reading of the RC and orders P, 161/2566 and P. 162/2566 suggest that any foreign source income earned in 2024 or later and remitted by a tax resident is assessable. The RD's Q&A addressed a Thai working in China for some years and wishing to move back home and remit her savings to Thailand.  The RD's advice was to remit the money before she becomes a Thai tax resident again. I don't see any latitude to claim exemption once you are a tax resident.

 

Q)  The RD stated in the French embassy video that it considers expenditures on foreign credit cards in Thailand by tax residents as remittances and therefore assessable. I doubt they would provide wriggle room to say it was actually a loan from the credit card company or that the bill was later paid with pre-2024 income.  The question is how would they find out about, if you failed to declare it.

 

R) An offshore loan remitted to Thailand is not assessable income.  There are many instances of this. 

 

S) I don't see why a foreigner (or a Thai) remitting a gift to a Thai tax resident should have to report that as income. There is nothing in the RC to support this idea but the only RD case study on gifts implies this is not the case.  If it is a gift over the threshold, the recipient has to declare the amount in excess of the threshold and pay gift tax on it.  If it is not qualified as a gift at all the recipient has to declare it as regular income and pay tax on that..  

Edited May 27 by Dogmatix

[MangoKorat]

@Mike Lister

 

Mike, could you pass comment on this please?

 

I understand that when applying for a 12 month extension on stay, for example based on marriage to a Thai national, an applicant either has to provide evidence of having 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account or a having a monthly income of not less than 40,000 baht per month.

 

Further, my understanding is that if using the income method and your embassy is one of those that will certify an income from abroad, you have to provide evidence of 12 months remittances.  Therefore, for someone just arriving in the country and applying for a 12 month extension based on marriage, for their first year they would have no option but to put 400,000 in a Thai bank account then collect evidence of income over the next 12 months for the next application.

 

Could that not lead to an assessable amount in the first year of 880,000 Thai baht (obviously depending on timing)? If so, Is there any way of avoiding that - such as sending the 400,000 back to your home country once the required amount of time (I believe 2 months) had passed? Could that be remitted then deducted or would it always remain income?

Edited May 27 by MangoKorat

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

@Mike Lister

 

Mike, could you pass comment on this please?

 

I understand that when applying for a 12 month extension on stay, for example based on marriage to a Thai national, an applicant either has to provide evidence of having 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account or a having a monthly income of not less than 40,000 baht per month.

 

Further, my understanding is that if using the income method and your embassy is one of those that will certify an income from abroad, you have to provide evidence of 12 months remittances.  Therefore, for someone just arriving in the country and applying for a 12 month extension based on marriage, for their first year they would have no option but to put 400,000 in a Thai bank account then collect evidence of income over the next 12 months for the next application.

 

Could that not lead to an assessable amount in the first year of 880,000 Thai baht (obviously depending on timing)? If so, Is there any way of avoiding that - such as sending the 400,000 back to your home country once the required amount of time (I believe 2 months) had passed? Could that be remitted then deducted or would it always remain income?

If the 400k comes from savings earned before 31 December 2023, it would not be regarded as tax assessable income.

[Dogmatix]

5 minutes ago, Mason45 said:

I got knocked back for the Australian aged pension as I didn't return to Australia 2 years before it was due. So I sold my home in Australia and I invested the proceeds into a term deposit fund at 5% per annum. I only send money to Thailand when needed, living expenses etc. Will that money be taxable in Thailand. I don't need to send any large sums as I own a house in Bangkok, my condo in Pattaya and I own a 4 years old car. Thanks.

 

This income is assessable for Thai tax, if it was earned in 2024 or later and it puts you over the threshold for Thai income tax plus deductions. 

[MangoKorat]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

If the 400k comes from savings earned before 31 December 2023, it would not be regarded as tax assessable income.

In my case it wouldn't. I am selling my home in the UK which as it is my sole residence, does not attract taxation in the UK.

 

I only want to use that money when I need to - otherwise it stays in the UK.

Edited May 27 by MangoKorat

[Mike Lister]

9 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

K) The RD publishes an order setting applicable exchange rates for a multitude of currencies  from time to time.  I think it is quarterly.  You can find these orders on the RD website.  For the rest there are no regulations or guidelines AFAIK which implies, unfortunately that it is left up to the discretion of individual officers to interpret.  International accounts for Thais to invest abroad have existed at Thai brokerages for over 10 years.  So these cases must have come up quite a lot where Thai investors didn't want to wait till the next year to remit gains.  You or your wife could enquire about opening an international account with a Thai broker and ask them to clarify these matters which they must have had to advise their clients about over the years. 

 

P) A straight reading of the RC and orders P, 161/2566 and P. 162/2566 suggest that any foreign source income earned in 2024 or later and remitted by a tax resident is assessable. The RD's Q&A addressed a Thai working in China for some years and wishing to move back home and remit her savings to Thailand.  The RD's advice was to remit the money before she becomes a Thai tax resident again. I don't see any latitude to claim exemption once you are a tax resident.

 

Q)  The RD stated in the French embassy video that it considers expenditures on foreign credit cards in Thailand by tax residents as remittances and therefore assessable. I doubt they would provide wriggle room to say it was actually a loan from the credit card company or that the bill was later paid with pre-2024 income.  The question is how would they find out about, if you failed to declare it.

 

R) An offshore loan remitted to Thailand is not assessable income.  There are many instances of this. 

 

S) I don't see why a foreigner (or a Thai) remitting a gift to a Thai tax resident should have to report that as income. There is nothing in the RC to support this idea but the only RD case study on gifts implies this is not the case.  If it is a gift over the threshold, the recipient has to declare the amount in excess of the threshold and pay gift tax on it.  If it is not qualified as a gift at all the recipient has to declare it as regular income and pay tax on that..  

Several of these points have bounced backwards and forwards, onto and then off and then back onto the list again. I'd like to see a consensus on them or substantial proof from an independent source, before taking them off and closing them out. Which is why they have been posted here yet again. A part of the problem now is that debates are running in two separate threads, on the same subjects, Gift Tax for example has been heavily debated recently in the ways to reduce tax thread and still hasn't concluded decisively. Ditto cc transactions vis a ve remitted income. Whilst I support that they are assessable, there's hardly anyone else that agrees, despite the French video.

 

 

. 

[Mike Lister]

19 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

@Mike Lister

 

Mike, could you pass comment on this please?

 

I understand that when applying for a 12 month extension on stay, for example based on marriage to a Thai national, an applicant either has to provide evidence of having 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account or a having a monthly income of not less than 40,000 baht per month.

 

Further, my understanding is that if using the income method and your embassy is one of those that will certify an income from abroad, you have to provide evidence of 12 months remittances.  Therefore, for someone just arriving in the country and applying for a 12 month extension based on marriage, for their first year they would have no option but to put 400,000 in a Thai bank account then collect evidence of income over the next 12 months for the next application.

 

Could that not lead to an assessable amount in the first year of 880,000 Thai baht (obviously depending on timing)? If so, Is there any way of avoiding that - such as sending the 400,000 back to your home country once the required amount of time (I believe 2 months) had passed? Could that be remitted then deducted or would it always remain income?

Sorry, I missed this. No, once remitted it stays remitted and cannot become unremitted!

[UKresonant]

6 hours ago, hcvc said:

Are funds derived from savings and remitted to Thailand considered taxable income?

The in C are not taxable but if interest arising  1st 2024 is comingled a smal.bit may be taxable.

If the interest from those savings were mandated to be paid to a different account should be pure non taxable. ( Provided you don't add to them after 1st Jan 2024 or add  only in years when you are not Thai Tax resident.....

 

 

[UKresonant]

10 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

@Mike Lister

 

Mike, could you pass comment on this please?

 

I understand that when applying for a 12 month extension on stay, for example based on marriage to a Thai national, an applicant either has to provide evidence of having 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account or a having a monthly income of not less than 40,000 baht per month.

 

Further, my understanding is that if using the income method and your embassy is one of those that will certify an income from abroad, you have to provide evidence of 12 months remittances.  Therefore, for someone just arriving in the country and applying for a 12 month extension based on marriage, for their first year they would have no option but to put 400,000 in a Thai bank account then collect evidence of income over the next 12 months for the next application.

 

Could that not lead to an assessable amount in the first year of 880,000 Thai baht (obviously depending on timing)? If so, Is there any way of avoiding that - such as sending the 400,000 back to your home country once the required amount of time (I believe 2 months) had passed? Could that be remitted then deducted or would it always remain income?

May I comment...

 

If your not currently Thai Tax resident, timing is everything, keep under the 179 days, for the initial year calendar year. 

If you have your Thai bank account you could start the 40k / month before arrival?

You can have the 90 day extended by 60 days, giving you about time for 4 months transfers.

(Wife could pop some money in the account, used to be only retirement extn that need funds from abroad..not sure.)

 

12 x 40k need for nationals of embassies that DO NOT provide income letters, e.g.. Australia,  UK, USA..(maybe others)...they fell out and went in the huff back about 2017 ish, IO wanted those to legally certify income, they said 'cannot' thankfully they did  not continue to put many other nationalities under that ultimatum. The 40k/ month was introduced. 

 

[So being a UK person I need 50k /  month gross + transfer charges to prove 40k month. , but income method is the way I would want to do it, if ever in that situation ]

 

Edited May 27 by UKresonant

[UKresonant]

10 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

publishes

11 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

K) The RD publishes an order setting applicable exchange rates for a multitude of currencies  from time to time.  I think it is quarterly

 

K, there is also an RD page that refers to a Bank of Thailand page  to use for the FX rate....

[dinga]

14 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

S) I don't see why a foreigner (or a Thai) remitting a gift to a Thai tax resident should have to report that as income. There is nothing in the RC to support this idea but the only RD case study on gifts implies this is not the case.  If it is a gift over the threshold, the recipient has to declare the amount in excess of the threshold and pay gift tax on it.  If it is not qualified as a gift at all the recipient has to declare it as regular income and pay tax on that..  

I'm in your camp (The Voice of Reason Camp  -  'just read the words of the law')

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, dinga said:

I'm in your camp (The Voice of Reason Camp  -  'just read the words of the law')

 

There is an extensive discussion and review of Gift Tax in the following link, the answer is not as as straight forward and clear cut as you might imagine.

 

 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

K) The RD publishes an order setting applicable exchange rates for a multitude of currencies  from time to time.  I think it is quarterly.  You can find these orders on the RD website.  For the rest there are no regulations or guidelines AFAIK which implies, unfortunately that it is left up to the discretion of individual officers to interpret.  International accounts for Thais to invest abroad have existed at Thai brokerages for over 10 years.  So these cases must have come up quite a lot where Thai investors didn't want to wait till the next year to remit gains.  You or your wife could enquire about opening an international account with a Thai broker and ask them to clarify these matters which they must have had to advise their clients about over the years. 

 

P) A straight reading of the RC and orders P, 161/2566 and P. 162/2566 suggest that any foreign source income earned in 2024 or later and remitted by a tax resident is assessable. The RD's Q&A addressed a Thai working in China for some years and wishing to move back home and remit her savings to Thailand.  The RD's advice was to remit the money before she becomes a Thai tax resident again. I don't see any latitude to claim exemption once you are a tax resident.

 

Q)  The RD stated in the French embassy video that it considers expenditures on foreign credit cards in Thailand by tax residents as remittances and therefore assessable. I doubt they would provide wriggle room to say it was actually a loan from the credit card company or that the bill was later paid with pre-2024 income.  The question is how would they find out about, if you failed to declare it.

 

R) An offshore loan remitted to Thailand is not assessable income.  There are many instances of this. 

 

S) I don't see why a foreigner (or a Thai) remitting a gift to a Thai tax resident should have to report that as income. There is nothing in the RC to support this idea but the only RD case study on gifts implies this is not the case.  If it is a gift over the threshold, the recipient has to declare the amount in excess of the threshold and pay gift tax on it.  If it is not qualified as a gift at all the recipient has to declare it as regular income and pay tax on that..  

 

[RupertIII]

5 hours ago, UKresonant said:

K, there is also an RD page that refers to a Bank of Thailand page  to use for the FX rate....

Surely if, when remitting foreign currency from overseas into a THB a/c, either the remitting bank or receiving bank convert into THB then this is the amount that would be used for calculation rather than the RD's assumed rate.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, RupertIII said:

Surely if, when remitting foreign currency from overseas into a THB a/c, either the remitting bank or receiving bank convert into THB then this is the amount that would be used for calculation rather than the RD's assumed rate.

Yes agreed, the actual rate takes precedent, that's true for individual transactions but the BOT/TRD prefered rate is perhaps useful where valuations are required.

[RupertIII]

17 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

For the rest there are no regulations or guidelines AFAIK which implies, unfortunately that it is left up to the discretion of individual officers to interpret. 

That, unfortunately, is precisely where the main problem lies. Who wants to remit large amounts of money without being able to calculate how much tax will need to be paid, if I decide to purchase a new car this year I cannot calculate how much I need to bring in to cover the tax liability and therefore how much the car will end up costing me! Better I continue to drive my old car and leave the funds outside of Thailand!

 

On a similar note my wife together with the accounts lady from our previous company went to the local tax office to enquire about a new TIN for me. Been using my old TIN,(for transfers from overseas to pay my UK based medical insurance) from when we had the company but my wife suggested I could get into trouble with this. Whilst she was at the tax office she asked the lady tax officer, who she described as very helpful and polite, would I be taxed on funds remitted for hospital treatment, the answer was probably no if I could provide a receipt from the hospital.

 

Whilst this was very considerate of her there is, to my knowledge, no exemption or allowance for this in the RD code and really just goes to prove Dogmatix's point that individual officers, to a lesser or greater degree, are able to use their discretion as they see fit. Unfortunately such latitude can lead to abuse which is a further concern.

 

Edited May 28 by RupertIII

[Mike Lister]

R) An offshore loan remitted to Thailand is not assessable income.  There are many instances of this. 

 

If a foreigner takes out a loan in their home country and remits those funds to Thailand and says they represent non assessable income, because the funds are borrowed, that might be the end of the matter as far as taxpayer and TRD are concerned, ot it might not.

 

If the foreigner subsequently pays off that loan, in their home country, using income that would have been assessable to tax in Thailand, had it been remitted, there is no requirement for the loan repayment to be reported in Thailand. Yet the status of those funds has now changed, they are no longer borrowed funds and the foreigner has just committed tax evasion......or has he? According to the above, no, my sniff test says yes.

@Dogmatix 

 

Before anyone has a go at me for discussing tax evasion, according to an entirely credible post above, remitting a loan in this manner is not assessable, the purpose of this post is therefore to determine is that is true or not.......I say it is not.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, JimGant said:

It's still a loan, that eventually has to be paid back. Being manipulated thru a BoI process doesn't change anything about that, nor about your suggestion a loan magically becomes remitted income, when paid back.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse and trying purposely to muddle the questions and avoid the scenario I'm questioning. If you continue to play games I will delete this exchange because it adds no value to the thread, it only subtracts from it.

[JimGant]

3 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Reading is not one of your strengths, is it! I never said there was a taxable event,

 

Ok, reading isn't maybe a strength. Just so I understand -- are you saying, then, there is NO taxable event when it becomes payback time? Please help me understand. Thanx. That really is key, especially in the FDI scenario.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Ok, reading isn't maybe a strength. Just so I understand -- are you saying, then, there is NO taxable event when it becomes payback time? Please help me understand. Thanx. That really is key, especially in the FDI scenario.

Here's that same post again, this time, read it and ask any questions before passing judgement or answering.

 

R) An offshore loan remitted to Thailand is not assessable income.  There are many instances of this. 

 

If a foreigner takes out a loan in their home country and remits those funds to Thailand and says they represent non assessable income, because the funds are borrowed, that might be the end of the matter as far as taxpayer and TRD are concerned, ot it might not.

 

If the foreigner subsequently pays off that loan, in their home country, using income that would have been assessable to tax in Thailand, had it been remitted, there is no requirement for the loan repayment to be reported in Thailand. Yet the status of those funds has now changed, they are no longer borrowed funds and the foreigner has just committed tax evasion......or has he? According to the above, no, my sniff test says yes.

@Dogmatix 

 

Before anyone has a go at me for discussing tax evasion, according to an entirely credible post above, remitting a loan in this manner is not assessable, the purpose of this post is therefore to determine is that is true or not.......I say it is not.

[JimGant]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

they are no longer borrowed funds and the foreigner has just committed tax evasion......or has he? According to the above, no, my sniff test says yes.

Ok, my read on this is, you're saying your sniff test says the foreigner has just committed tax evasion -- 'cause the loan, when paid back, has now become assessable income -- even tho' it (the payback part) has not been remitted.

 

12 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

remitting a loan in this manner is not assessable, the purpose of this post is therefore to determine is that is true or not.......I say it is not.

 You're saying, at least as I interpret, that when Dog says, 'remitting a loan in this manner is not assessable' -- you say: IT IS NOT. What am I missing about you and loans?

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Ok, my read on this is, you're saying your sniff test says the foreigner has just committed tax evasion -- 'cause the loan, when paid back, has now become assessable income -- even tho' it (the payback part) has not been remitted.

 

 You're saying, at least as I interpret, that when Dog says, 'remitting a loan in this manner is not assessable' -- you say: IT IS NOT. What am I missing about you and loans?

What you seem to be missing is that by remitting loan proceeds from overseas, instead of assessable income, and then paying off the loan in the home country, the very next day/week/month with that assessable income, means the nature and the status of the loan that was remitted has now changed. Once the loan money has been remitted and is understood to be a loan, there is no further Thai reporting requirement on those funds, even though the status of them may have changed, the following day/week/month. In other words, this scenario has all the hallmarks of a contrived tax evasion process, ergo, the loan money that is remitted would need to be considered assessable, to avoid that scenario. Agreed?

[JimGant]

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

What you seem to be missing is that by remitting loan proceeds from overseas, instead of assessable income, and then paying off the loan in the home country, the very next day/week/month with that assessable income, means the nature and the status of the loan that was remitted has now changed.

Nope. It's still a loan. And it's not assessable income paying back the loan overseas -- because assessable income, for Thai tax purposes, has to be remitted -- and the paybacks are not.

 

Now, if Thailand were on the worldwide tax system, yes, if the payback money for the loan was subject to Thai taxation, via the DTA, then, yes, what was originally a tax free loan into Thailand -- would now be converted to a taxable event consisting of the payback monies for the loan. But the situation we're discussing here involves the quirky Thai remittance system, that says, no taxable event has occurred without remittance. And the payback of the loan is with NON REMITTED monies. End of story, end of any potential tax event. End of any tax evasion, by treating the loan as a taxable event (am I able to say that without any pushback?)

[Mike Lister]

Just now, JimGant said:

Nope. It's still a loan. And it's not assessable income paying back the loan overseas -- because assessable income, for Thai tax purposes, has to be remitted -- and the paybacks are not.

 

Now, if Thailand were on the worldwide tax system, yes, if the payback money for the loan was subject to Thai taxation, via the DTA, then, yes, what was originally a tax free loan into Thailand -- would now be converted to a taxable event consisting of the payback monies for the loan. But the situation we're discussing here involves the quirky Thai remittance system, that says, no taxable event has occurred without remittance. And the payback of the loan is with NON REMITTED monies. End of story, end of any potential tax event. End of any tax evasion, by treating the loan as a taxable event (am I able to say that without any pushback?)

You have failed to understand what is being said, again.

 

The issue is not whether the money involved is assessable or not.

 

The issue is, whether the scenario I set out represents contrived tax evasion.