Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, stat said:

It is not that simple and this was pointed out to you several times. Accounting method is one of the open questions. For whatever reason you want to see everything simple and clear but it is not and you are not willing or able to answer a simple question of accounting method that is paramount to the calculation of the due income tax and the decission to stay in TH at all (for some).

 

If you really believe you stand a fair chance in a thai tax tribunal then I do not know what to say.

 

 

 

I

If you want to debate this issue with me, you must try harder to remain focussed on the things being discussed and not not wander off aimlessly at a tangent, making broad sweeping statements about mildly related issues and blame everything on my failure to understand!!  Nobody ever suggested that there aren't unknowns and unclear issues, that is not even remotely relevant to the definition of the high level credit card related tax process, which is very simple and very clear and is the issue being discussed.  The poster attempts to make excuses why credit card transactions can't be considered assessable, all of which are manufactured and grasping at straws, presumably because he feels exposed on that front.

[chiang mai]

This thread has once again become dreary, disappointing and short on substance. Something half factual gets posted and the next few pages get devoted to those who don't think the TRD stands a cat in hecks chance of ever successfully taxing foreigners and reasons why it won't ever happen. 

 

It's one thing to challenge perceived fact and understanding but it's unproductive and pointless to pooh pooh everything, without any substantial basis other than the somewhat racist connotation that it's too difficult, too complicated and this is Thailand.

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

This thread has once again become dreary, disappointing and short on substance. Something half factual gets posted and the next few pages get devoted to those who don't think the TRD stands a cat in hecks chance of ever successfully taxing foreigners and reasons why it won't ever happen. 

 

It's one thing to challenge perceived fact and understanding but it's unproductive and pointless to pooh pooh everything, without any substantial basis other than the somewhat racist connotation that it's too difficult, too complicated and this is Thailand.

The main reason why Thailand is not able to successfully enforce their Law and why most of the rules are not strictly followed by the population is the everywhere corruption. As long as corruption level remains high rules enforcement will not improve.

[JimGant]

16 hours ago, Phulublub said:

The remittance (for that is what it is) may or may not be assessable in EXACTLY the same way as a cash transfer from bank ccount to bank account.

Actually, in my case, it would be EXACTLY the same. My checking account only contains non assessable income (direct deposits from my Air Force pension and from Social Security). Thus, when my bank does a monthly direct debit from my checking account to pay off the Visa charge for purchases I made in Thailand -- I maintain that characterizes the "loan" I received from Visa for the Thai purchases the same as the payback, i.e., non assessable.

 

No different than a Wise transfer of non assessable income from this same checking account.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

This thread has once again become dreary, disappointing and short on substance

Right on! Where's Mike Lister when we need him.....?

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

The main reason why Thailand is not able to successfully enforce their Law and why most of the rules are not strictly followed by the population is the everywhere corruption. As long as corruption level remains high rules enforcement will not improve.

Yet another post telling us why something can't be done! Yet despite that claim, somehow the TRD collected 396 billion baht in income tax revenue last year!

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1126300/thailand-government-revenue-from-taxes-by-type/

[Ricohoc]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Actually, in my case, it would be EXACTLY the same. My checking account only contains non assessable income (direct deposits from my Air Force pension and from Social Security). Thus, when my bank does a monthly direct debit from my checking account to pay off the Visa charge for purchases I made in Thailand -- I maintain that characterizes the "loan" I received from Visa for the Thai purchases the same as the payback, i.e., non assessable.

 

No different than a Wise transfer of non assessable income from this same checking account.

Interesting.

 

Yes, Visa and Mastercard and other similar bankcards are indeed loans. In my case, they are short term loans because I pay my balances monthly.

[Ricohoc]

I'm curious to know what exchange rate the TRD will assess to the amount of "income" brought into the country.

 

Will it be the rate on the last day of the tax year, or an average, or what?

 

In my case, there's at least a 100,000 baht difference between a USD rate at 35 vs a USD rate at 30.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

I'm curious to know what exchange rate the TRD will assess to the amount of "income" brought into the country.

 

Will it be the rate on the last day of the tax year, or an average, or what?

 

In my case, there's at least a 100,000 baht difference between a USD rate at 35 vs a USD rate at 30.

The rate used when the funds were received or exchanged by the bank.

[stat]

8 hours ago, chiang mai said:

The rate used when the funds were received or exchanged by the bank.

Another wild guess presented as fact.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, stat said:

Another wild guess presented as fact.

Proof that it is not please

[anrcaccount]

14 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

18 minutes ago, stat said:

Another wild guess presented as fact.

Proof that it is not please

 

How about some proof, that it is a fact? 

[Captain Flack]

Some off topic posts discussing claims about another poster have been removed.
 

I have said this before, please discuss the topic and challenge opinions here, not discuss claims about other posters, as all it will achieve is having the posts removed.

[stat]

17 hours ago, chiang mai said:

If you want to debate this issue with me, you must try harder to remain focussed on the things being discussed and not not wander off aimlessly at a tangent, making broad sweeping statements about mildly related issues and blame everything on my failure to understand!!  Nobody ever suggested that there aren't unknowns and unclear issues, that is not even remotely relevant to the definition of the high level credit card related tax process, which is very simple and very clear and is the issue being discussed.  The poster attempts to make excuses why credit card transactions can't be considered assessable, all of which are manufactured and grasping at straws, presumably because he feels exposed on that front.

Your own words

 

"

I don't understand why people try to overcomplicate things, the basic process is this:

 

1 - The Taxpayer spends time in Thailand, becomes tax resident and spends money here, derived from a potential variety of sources.

 

2 - The Taxpayer self determines whether the money that was spent is assessable and either files a tax return and reports the income or decides it isn't necessary.

 

3 - The TRD examines data from a variety of in country and potentially overseas sources and initiates investigations based on what it sees.

 

Nowhere in the above is a step that eliminates income because it's too difficult to determine if funds are assessable or not. Nowhere in the above is a step that eliminates funds or people just because TRD can't immediately see all the detailed information they might want or need."

 

You claim that the whole process of PIT is not complicated in your own post just a day ago. 24 hrs later your post: "Nobody ever suggested that there aren't unknowns and unclear issues," Lost for words here as the whole income determination depends on several unknowns such as the accouting method.

 

[chiang mai]

Just now, stat said:

Your own words

 

"

I don't understand why people try to overcomplicate things, the basic process is this:

 

1 - The Taxpayer spends time in Thailand, becomes tax resident and spends money here, derived from a potential variety of sources.

 

2 - The Taxpayer self determines whether the money that was spent is assessable and either files a tax return and reports the income or decides it isn't necessary.

 

3 - The TRD examines data from a variety of in country and potentially overseas sources and initiates investigations based on what it sees.

 

Nowhere in the above is a step that eliminates income because it's too difficult to determine if funds are assessable or not. Nowhere in the above is a step that eliminates funds or people just because TRD can't immediately see all the detailed information they might want or need."

 

You claim that the whole process of PIT is not complicated in your own post just a day ago. 24 hrs later your post: "Nobody ever suggested that there aren't unknowns and unclear issues," Lost for words here...

 

 

 

Well, everyone else gets the difference between high level process and low level detail, too bad you don't. 

 

 

[stat]

26 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

 

How about some proof, that it is a fact? 

There will be no answer only insults from ChinagMai.

[stat]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

 

Well, everyone else gets the difference between high level process and low level detail, too bad you don't. 

 

 

So it is a low level detail that FIFO leads to zero PIT and LIFO to having to pay PIT on every penny transfered to TH in the majority of cases with one bank account with monies from before 2024 on actual income?

[stat]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Well, everyone else gets the difference between high level process and low level detail, too bad you don't. 

 

 

You think you speak for everyone in this forum now, interesting.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, stat said:

There will be no answer only insults from ChinagMai.

There is no AN member called ChinagMai, just like there's no sensible discussion on tax in this thread, only continual baiting..

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, stat said:

So it is a low level detail that FIFO leads to zero PIT and LIFO to having to pay PIT on every penny transfered to TH in the majority of cases with one bank account with monies from before 2024 on actual income?

Go bait somebody who is interested, I am not.

[stat]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

There is no AN member called ChinagMai, just like there's no sensible discussion on tax in this thread, only continual baiting..

So Mr Chiang Mai then please provide the law you presented as fact.

[stat]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

Go bait somebody who is interested, I am not.

Simple question but no answer... But hey that is the answer.

[stat]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

There is no AN member called ChinagMai, just like there's no sensible discussion on tax in this thread, only continual baiting..

Why do you post in this thread then?

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, stat said:

So Mr Chiang Mai then please provide the fact you presented as facts.

So the expat remitted 50,000 Pounds to Thailand in July that year. In the following January he filed a tax return that reflected 50k Pounds of assessable income, converted to THB by the bank as it was received, at a rate of 43 baht per Pound. Oh no says the TRD, you can't use the actual exchange rate, you have to use the year end rate which is an average blah blah blah.

 

Really? I mean really?

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/eng/NOOF_Exchange_Rate.pdf

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, stat said:

Why do you post in this thread then?

Because occasionally there's an opportunity to help some members by answering their questions, something you and your gang don't seem to do much of at all, I wonder why that is!

[Felt 35]

33 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

So the expat remitted 50,000 Pounds to Thailand in July that year. In the following January he filed a tax return that reflected 50k Pounds of assessable income, converted to THB by the bank as it was received, at a rate of 43 baht per Pound. Oh no says the TRD, you can't use the actual exchange rate, you have to use the year end rate which is an average blah blah blah.

 

Really? I mean really?

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/eng/NOOF_Exchange_Rate.pdf

In my experience Thai revenue tax, the amount shown proved by a transfer to the expat`s Thai bank account irrespective of what the exchange rate was when the transfer was done.

Felt

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

In my experience Thai revenue tax, the amount shown proved by a transfer to the expat`s Thai bank account irrespective of what the exchange rate was when the transfer was done.

Felt

Exactly, the actual rate that was used.

[chiang mai]

56 minutes ago, stat said:

Your own words

 

"

I don't understand why people try to overcomplicate things, the basic process is this:

 

1 - The Taxpayer spends time in Thailand, becomes tax resident and spends money here, derived from a potential variety of sources.

 

2 - The Taxpayer self determines whether the money that was spent is assessable and either files a tax return and reports the income or decides it isn't necessary.

 

3 - The TRD examines data from a variety of in country and potentially overseas sources and initiates investigations based on what it sees.

 

Nowhere in the above is a step that eliminates income because it's too difficult to determine if funds are assessable or not. Nowhere in the above is a step that eliminates funds or people just because TRD can't immediately see all the detailed information they might want or need."

 

You claim that the whole process of PIT is not complicated in your own post just a day ago. 24 hrs later your post: "Nobody ever suggested that there aren't unknowns and unclear issues," Lost for words here as the whole income determination depends on several unknowns such as the accouting method.

 

As much as you might want to talk about other aspects of tax, the one being discussed in which you posted a reply, was about the assessability of credit card transactions, no more, no less.  If you don't have any constructive comments, pertinent to the current topic, you should refrain from commenting.

[Lorry]

16 hours ago, Yumthai said:

The main reason why Thailand is not able to successfully enforce their Law and why most of the rules are not strictly followed by the population is the everywhere corruption. As long as corruption level remains high rules enforcement will not improve.

So, easy solution:

Just feel free to bribe the tax official if they ever want your taxes.

Where is the problem? 

 

 

[K2938]

Any views on the likelihood of Thailand actually going ahead with the announced plan to not only tax remitted, but global income regardless of remittance?  Thanks.