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Posted
37 minutes ago, Guavaman said:

For example, the 190,000 income exemption is subtracted from pension income before the calculation of the amount of expenses deducted @50% up to 100,000.

So, just to clarify?

If you don't remit any pension income, then you don't get the age 65 = 190,000 income exemption and you don't get the 50% = up to 100,000 expenses deduction either? Just asking...

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Posted
56 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:
1 hour ago, Guavaman said:

For example, the 190,000 income exemption is subtracted from pension income before the calculation of the amount of expenses deducted @50% up to 100,000.

So, just to clarify?

If you don't remit any pension income, then you don't get the age 65 = 190,000 income exemption and you don't get the 50% = up to 100,000 expenses deduction either? Just asking...

Neither of the statements above are correct.

 

You have an OAP allowance of 190,000 it is not an exemption.

IT IS NOT AGAINST PENSIONS per sei it is against all assessable income.

 

it like other allowances reduces the amount of tax you need to pay, or increases the amount of income before you pay tax

There are some allowances that are specific to a particular type of income, the OAP allowance is not one of those.

there are some allowances that are dependent on your family, the OAP allowance is not one of those.

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Guavaman said:

The TRD terms define how and where to enter the numbers into the tax form. For example, the 190,000 income exemption is subtracted from pension income before the calculation of the amount of expenses deducted @50% up to 100,000.

 

If we use our own terms, it becomes a cause of confusion in communications, as we have seen in these threads. 

You are doing exactly what you say should not be done.

 

Quote

The TRD terms define how and where to enter the numbers into the tax form. For example, the 190,000 income exemption is subtracted from pension income before the calculation of the amount of expenses deducted @50% up to 100,000.

 

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Posted

Regarding applying the income exemption of 190,000 baht for taxpayers 65 years of age or older to categories of income in preparing a personal income tax return, it depends upon whether one is using Personal Income Tax Return Form PND 90 or PND 91.

 

Personal Income Tax Return Form PND 91 is used by taxpayers who received income from employment only. What does that include?

 

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

 

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.

 

In this case, the full 190,000 is applied to income category 1, since that is the only category on this form. An example of the PND 91 is attached.

In the other case, Personal Income Tax Return Form PND 90 is used by taxpayers who received income not only from employment. This includes all categories of income from 40 (1) – (8).

 

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2023 (...90) For taxpayers who received incomes not only from employment

Page 2-4 of ...90 – Assessable Income

Notes:

          A taxpayer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht of income exemption from his/her total income.

          If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the “Income Exemption Entitlement Form” and deduct an income exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ...90.

          The taxpayer can elect to apply the exemption to any categories of income from 40 (1) – (8), but the aggregated exempted amount cannot exceed 190,000 baht. If the exemption applies, fill in the information in ...90.

 

 

tax computation.jpg

Posted

OK so if Income is from dividends or sale of investments offshore, I am entitled to the expenses deduction of not exceeding 100000?

Posted
11 hours ago, Guavaman said:

The TRD terms define how and where to enter the numbers into the tax form. For example, the 190,000 income exemption is subtracted from pension income before the calculation of the amount of expenses deducted @50% up to 100,000.

 

If we use our own terms, it becomes a cause of confusion in communications, as we have seen in these threads. 

Yes on the old 91 income tax form my figures of a maximum of 560K I was also including of course the first exemption  tax of  150k and yes Guavaman the figures you kindly sent  and the total income is less than the tax due so no tax.
Yes reading this right and can see it but surely would be also taken as an allowance and 560k is my total amount allowed and that is only if O can claim my wife's 60k allowance and she does not work.
Yes, we await I think and Mike Lister suggests we will..
Thanks all 
ps What exchange  rate they going to give and think this will cause untold confusion and frankly are they going to chase for approx  2 or 3k tax or just adjust my figures and yes calculate the tax at the first 5%?

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Posted
9 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Neither of the statements above are correct.

 

You have an OAP allowance of 190,000 it is not an exemption.

IT IS NOT AGAINST PENSIONS per sei it is against all assessable income.

 

it like other allowances reduces the amount of tax you need to pay, or increases the amount of income before you pay tax

There are some allowances that are specific to a particular type of income, the OAP allowance is not one of those.

there are some allowances that are dependent on your family, the OAP allowance is not one of those.

 

Thank you for clarifying this and confirming my thoughts on the 190k deductible.

Posted
12 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Many talking about leaving before 180 and listing off several countries they will go to when they leave.  I hope those are figuring the cost of airfare, hotels/rooms, transportation, etc.  I did this and came to the conclusion it would be less expensive to stay here and just pay the tax. And, places like Cambodia and Phillipines are a big downgrade in lifestyle in my opinion. Hopefully not, but I am happy here paying some menial tax in my situation is no big deal.

Exactly, I did the maths on somebody remitting 1Million THB of UK (already taxed) pension income & the max they would need to pay in Tax is <1,000B.

 

However, spending less than 180 days in Thailand makes sense when you want to remit a large chunk of money, E.g. In 2026 my private pensions start to pay out so I plan on bringing my PCLS (Pensions Commencement Lump Sum) of approx. 12Million Baht over so I can invest the $250,000 I need to invest to get an LTR visa & the tax on this would be >3Million THB so its a no-brainer for me to spend < 180 days in Thailand that year.

 

Hopefully it's just for the 1 year as if I can get an LTR I can bring money over freely without worrying about Tax.

 

I do hope that Thailand realises it will lose Expat money under this new tax regime, me spending 6 months outside of Thailand will mean they're losing approx. 720,000B that I would be spending in Thailand if I wasn't being forced to stay away.

   

    

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Posted
7 hours ago, Guavaman said:

Regarding applying the income exemption of 190,000 baht for taxpayers 65 years of age or older to categories of income in preparing a personal income tax return, it depends upon whether one is using Personal Income Tax Return Form PND 90 or PND 91.

 

Personal Income Tax Return Form PND 91 is used by taxpayers who received income from employment only. What does that include?

 

Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer.

 

(1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.

 

In this case, the full 190,000 is applied to income category 1, since that is the only category on this form. An example of the PND 91 is attached.

 

In the other case, Personal Income Tax Return Form PND 90 is used by taxpayers who received income not only from employment. This includes all categories of income from 40 (1) – (8).

 

Guide to Personal Income Tax Return 2023 (...90) For taxpayers who received incomes not only from employment

Page 2-4 of ...90 – Assessable Income

Notes:

          A taxpayer who is 65 years of age or older is entitled up to 190,000 baht of income exemption from his/her total income.

          If you are qualified for the exemption mentioned above, please fill out the “Income Exemption Entitlement Form” and deduct an income exemption amount from income calculated in that form as your assessable income on ...90.

          The taxpayer can elect to apply the exemption to any categories of income from 40 (1) – (8), but the aggregated exempted amount cannot exceed 190,000 baht. If the exemption applies, fill in the information in ...90.

 

 

tax computation.jpg

FYI: this small excell to compute taxes from 'pauku1' maybe helpful, ymmv.
<https://aseannow.com/topic/1318120-revenue-department-contact-reports/#comment-18647010>

Posted
3 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

FYI: this small excell to compute taxes from 'pauku1' maybe helpful, ymmv.
<https://aseannow.com/topic/1318120-revenue-department-contact-reports/#comment-18647010>

Yes. so many confusing things in Thailand and this Form 91 is titled Income from Employment Only but ironically the 190K deductible and the 100k and the personal allowance are there and thanks to Guavaman(the only ones could find were 2006 and these allowances were not there then) 
Most will have one type of income for that box and I just have small pensions

Yes, the other Form 90  Income from various types of income,  but no boxes if the above and weird but nothing is simple here and not having  a dig.
My dear Thai wife again asked me what are you doing?
Mentioned about may be to file a form and maybe some income tax but I  do not understand it, let alone explain it LOL.




Finally, we have been advised to wait and see when the new forms will be out and maybe an official statement??? 
You can see my various  posts but it is still confusing and probably the Revenue also


 

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Posted

Yes, precisely and even before going out the front door ex-pats contribute so much to the Thai economy by raising our wonderful Thai families but no of course the Authorities could not care less and we have provided homes for them.
I have stated this a few times before.
BTW metisdead the capitals were on accidentally and think I made a joke out of it.
Seriously, it is hard enough on fixed and frozen state pensions we have to suffer but a little bit of old-fashioned humour should not go amiss in these troubled times.
Indeed realise the rules and thanks and please give us any official  statements on the tax issue when you get them, please?

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Posted
43 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Yes, precisely and even before going out the front door ex-pats contribute so much to the Thai economy by raising our wonderful Thai families ...


... should not go amiss in these troubled times ...

 

so many foreigners think we are so important to the thai economy, but we are not at all.

i do agree, our thai families do benefit from us because we are the breadwinners.

 

"these troubled times" ... i'm not sure what you mean. are you talking about the tax thing

or did i miss something?

 

 

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Posted
4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

This is one of the exact reasons to be non resident for 1 tax year, however having a capital gain in your home country is another reason to be non resident when the gain is realised. Regrettably HMRC will have their pound of flesh.
 

personally I will be likely to have a significant capital gain since one property has a 2,700% increase since it was purchased in 1974 so I will be non resident in the year I sell it. This will mean that if or when I remit these funds, however much I send I can have zero assessable income in Thailand for many years to come 

I'm having an internal debate with myself about whether I should also sell my UK house in 2026 when I'm going to be non-tax resident anyway.

 

Am sure you're already aware but the Capital Gains on your property will be calculated using the property's value in April 2015 so you may find your CGT bill is not as bad as you were maybe thinking. 

Posted
53 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

sorry, off topic: i would guess the median spending for a non-working retired foreigner in thailand is about

1 million baht per year. how many two-week holiday tourists are needed to generate 1 million baht in revenue?

 

i believe tourists are one of the real economy boosters in thailand, while retired foreigners are just small fish in the pond!

that's why we are treated like small, unimportant fish ...

 

Posted

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR You say we contribute 1 million Baht and that is a fair bit then you say we are a small fish and the argument some of the Thai families would be in poverty and contradict yourself with that comment "we are a small fish " Really
Off topic moderators and agree to disagree ok and have a nice day

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Posted
1 hour ago, stat said:

In the overall picture we are not contributing as much as the car industry agreed, but the thai state does not spend a penny on each expats and gets lots of revenue that otherwise would not boost the thai economy, so it is as pretty good deal for both sides.

Original poster stated off-topic but it is true we contribute a lot or was it a troll and so many and not just this site???? I replied and said the post was a contradiction but now ignored this poster.

 Meanwhile, we have to wait for the never-official statement and the so-called new forms due out later and I am beginning to think no one has any idea how this will pan out even the Revenue and so many differing experts who are lawyers!!

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Posted
1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

I'm having an internal debate with myself about whether I should also sell my UK house in 2026 when I'm going to be non-tax resident anyway.

 

Am sure you're already aware but the Capital Gains on your property will be calculated using the property's value in April 2015 so you may find your CGT bill is not as bad as you were maybe thinking. 

I am reasonably aware of that and had valuations done at the time so I have a hard line on the base valuation, however I’m still well into a largeish CGT tax bill.

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Posted
7 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Yes. so many confusing things in Thailand and this Form 91 is titled Income from Employment Only but ironically the 190K deductible and the 100k and the personal allowance are there and thanks to Guavaman(the only ones could find were 2006 and these allowances were not there then) 
Most will have one type of income for that box and I just have small pensions

Yes, the other Form 90  Income from various types of income,  but no boxes if the above and weird but nothing is simple here and not having  a dig.
My dear Thai wife again asked me what are you doing?
Mentioned about may be to file a form and maybe some income tax but I  do not understand it, let alone explain it LOL.




Finally, we have been advised to wait and see when the new forms will be out and maybe an official statement??? 
You can see my various  posts but it is still confusing and probably the Revenue also


 

 

This might help - Item #6 on the list of English forms.

 

Income Exemption Entitlement Form to be used with ภ.ง.ด.90 for the year ....

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/22036765year.pdf

 

Page 1, under the title are two boxes, check the one on the right:

Taxpayer (Including Disabled Person and Disabled Person who is a foreigner) 65 Years of Age or Older

 

Now scroll down to the bottom of page 1 and also page 2.

 

* Accumulated income exemption for disabled person or disabled person who is a foreigner under 65 years old or taxpayer over 65 years old (including disabled person
and disabled person who is a foreigner) from all types of income must not exceed 190,000 baht

 

The asterisk shows up in a couple places on the form.

 

No. 1 Assessable Income Under Section 40 (1) (2)

1. Section 40 (1) Salary, wage, pension, etc
2. Less exempted income*

 

There are three columns

 

No. 2 Assessable Income Under Section 40 (3)

Assessable Income

Exempted Income*

Income after deduction** of exemption to be filled in ภ.ง.ด.90

 

And then later on page 2

For No. 9 taxpayer has two options to pay taxes:
1. Where opt to include with other income, fill in the amount after exemption* in ภ.ง.ด.90 No. 7 7.
2. Where opt to pay taxes at a rate of 5 percent of the income, fill in the amount after exemption* in ภ.ง.ด.90 No. 9

 

And in this case would be deducted from  PD90 ????

 

No. 7 Assessable Income Under Section 40 (8)

           Balance 7

or

No. 9 Income from Gift (where opt to pay taxes at a rate of 5 percent on the amount which was not exempted under Section 42 (26) (27) (28))

 

...........maybe?

 

 

 

Posted

For PD90 in Thai, first page

 

กรณีผู้มีอายุตั้งแต่ 65 ปีขึ้นไปให้กรอกใบแสดงสิทธิฯด้วย

In case of persons aged 65 years and above, fill in the certificate as well.

Posted
1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

No. 9 Income from Gift (where opt to pay taxes at a rate of 5 percent on the amount which was not exempted under Section 42 (26) (27) (28))

This only comes into play when a taxpayer receives gifts exceeding 10m or 20m during the tax year.

 

Revenue Code Chapter 3 Income Tax

(26) Income derived from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property, …  but only for the portion not exceeding twenty million baht per a legitimate child throughout the tax year

 

 (27) Income derived from maintenance and support or gifts from ascendants, descendants or spouse, but only for the portion not exceeding twenty million Baht throughout the tax year.

 

(28) Income derived from maintenances and support under moral purposes or gifts received … but only for the portion not exceeding ten million baht throughout the tax year.

 

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

And in this case would be deducted from  PD90 ????

 

The tax on this is reported further down on Form PND 90:

 

17. Plus additional tax payable (from No. 9 (if any))

 

 

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