The EU's Struggle with Identity: A Shift Towards Xenophobia and Ethnic Nationalism?

[bradiston]

24 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

True, Russia is an absolute paragon of ethnic diversity and the cultural benefits this brings.

 

Good point.

Oh yeah?

[Cameroni]

34 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Oh yeah?

 

Of course.

 

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

Which could be to do with retaliation for having your family blown to pieces in front of your eyes, your neighbour's legs ripped off, being tortured by invading forces for days, weeks, months on end, your country totally destroyed, your way of life, your livelihood.

Do you have any evidence that the 'people' committing terror attacks on Europe's streets have experienced any of those things you mentioned? Let's start with the killers of Lee Rigby. Or the 7/7 bombers in London. Did any of them have their family blown to pieces? 

 

The attacks are by fanatical Islamists bent on the destruction of non believers. Plenty of Christians and people of other faiths have lost their lives in the conflicts you refer to, but you don't see radicalised Christians carrying out these attacks on members of the public (or you rarely do). 

[bradiston]

9 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Of course.

 

I was being ironic, but I guess you knew that.

[Cameroni]

11 minutes ago, bradiston said:

I was being ironic, but I guess you knew that.

 

Of course.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Do you have any evidence that the 'people' committing terror attacks on Europe's streets have experienced any of those things you mentioned? Let's start with the killers of Lee Rigby. Or the 7/7 bombers in London. Did any of them have their family blown to pieces? 

 

The attacks are by fanatical Islamists bent on the destruction of non believers. Plenty of Christians and people of other faiths have lost their lives in the conflicts you refer to, but you don't see radicalised Christians carrying out these attacks on members of the public (or you rarely do). 

Well, I guess many of the Catholic IRA or Protestant UDF did see such atrocities first hand, and they carried a lot out in retaliation.

 

But no, I don't have any evidence of Islamic terrorists' experiences, direct or indirect, of the many wars waged by the West in their home countries or in the Middle East or in Afghanistan. Many, if not all, had been wilfully radicalised by cynical agents who manipulated them for their own ends. Which of course were, to attack "the West", or quite possibly another Islamic sect, and cause as much pain and hurt and suffering as possible. Suicide bombers operated all over the middle east. In fact, globally. But I repeat, they were radicalised youth, male and female, who believed what they were doing was part of a holy war, or for whatever other loopy reason. So it's the orchestrators of the bombings, shootings and knifings who are really to blame. And what really are their motives? A desire for what?

[GinBoy2]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Do you have any evidence that the 'people' committing terror attacks on Europe's streets have experienced any of those things you mentioned? Let's start with the killers of Lee Rigby. Or the 7/7 bombers in London. Did any of them have their family blown to pieces? 

 

The attacks are by fanatical Islamists bent on the destruction of non believers. Plenty of Christians and people of other faiths have lost their lives in the conflicts you refer to, but you don't see radicalised Christians carrying out these attacks on members of the public (or you rarely do). 

My Dad fought in WW2, hated the nazi ideology, and was pretty OK with killing nazi fighters.

 

But he came home and wasn't radicalized against all Germans

 

That's what's different now. Kids living a suburban life in a Western country get their heads turned around and thinking killing innocent people for some mythical cause is OK in some way.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

That's what's different now. Kids living a suburban life in a Western country get their heads turned around and thinking killing innocent people for some mythical cause is OK in some way.

Perhaps growing up killing "the enemy" on PC games leads them to think war is just like a PC game and "the enemy" isn't real people.

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps growing up killing "the enemy" on PC games leads them to think war is just like a PC game and "the enemy" isn't real people.

Yeah I've kinda thought about this.

 

I'm sure most of their parents are just devastated by it. Brought them up right, but violent video games and the toxic internet world in their bedroom, can warp a young man's mind

Edited 23 hours ago by GinBoy2

[bradiston]

14 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Of course.

Some diverse sources on diverse aspects of Russian and soviet population control and ethnicity and possible future demographics.

 

As for art and culture, what can be said of Putin's destruction of criticism of not only the war in Ukraine but of any aspect of the ruling ideology, ie the ideology of the ruling class? Or ruling despot.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/29/russia-culture-artists-putin-nationalism/

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union

 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/russia-tomorrow/a-russia-without-russians-putins-disastrous-demographics/

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Russia

 

[Cameroni]

13 hours ago, bradiston said:

Some diverse sources on diverse aspects of Russian and soviet population control and ethnicity and possible future demographics.

 

As for art and culture, what can be said of Putin's destruction of criticism of not only the war in Ukraine but of any aspect of the ruling ideology, ie the ideology of the ruling class? Or ruling despot.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/29/russia-culture-artists-putin-nationalism/

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union

 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/content-series/russia-tomorrow/a-russia-without-russians-putins-disastrous-demographics/

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Russia

 

Yes, a paywall article, shame, it looked interesting.

 

The wiki article just tells of Stalin's population transfers, very common in those days, don't forget the Americans and Churchill sanctioned the ethnic cleansing of 14 million Germans after the war.

 

The Atlantic Council is of course a vile propaganda vehicle of NATO and the US, and has no place in a discussion on culture. In Russia it is banned by law. Quite rightly too.

 

But then your last link  is not bad, it gives the full picture of Russia's diverse ethnic make up, 190 ethnicities. Quite something.

 

As for "destruction of criticism" I don't really buy into that narrative, after all in the US the mainstream media has all but banned critical voices that attack Kamala Harris, in Germany thought crimes are used to silence critics of the government. Russia's policies are just what all states engage in. And i don't believe high culture necessarily has to be critical of the government anyway, if you remember Richard Strauss, quite good music, and not government critical at all.

Edited 6 hours ago by Cameroni

[bradiston]

3 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Yes, a paywall article, shame, it looked interesting.

 

The wiki article just tells of Stalin's population transfers, very common in those days, don't forget the Americans and Churchill sanctioned the ethnic cleansing of 14 million Germans after the war.

 

The Atlantic Council is of course a vile propaganda vehicle of NATO and the US, and has no place in a discussion on culture. In Russia it is banned by law. Quite rightly too.

 

But then your last link  is not bad, it gives the full picture of Russia's diverse ethnic make up, 190 ethnicities. Quite something.

 

As for "destruction of criticism" I don't really buy into that narrative, after all in the US the mainstream media has all but banned critical voices that attack Kamala Harris, in Germany thought crimes are used to silence critics of the government. Russia's policies are just what all states engage in. And i don't believe high culture necessarily has to be critical of the government anyway, if you remember Richard Strauss, quite good music, and not government critical at all.

Ok, so where would you rather live?

[bradiston]

4 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Yes, a paywall article, shame, it looked interesting.

 

The wiki article just tells of Stalin's population transfers, very common in those days, don't forget the Americans and Churchill sanctioned the ethnic cleansing of 14 million Germans after the war.

 

The Atlantic Council is of course a vile propaganda vehicle of NATO and the US, and has no place in a discussion on culture. In Russia it is banned by law. Quite rightly too.

 

But then your last link  is not bad, it gives the full picture of Russia's diverse ethnic make up, 190 ethnicities. Quite something.

 

As for "destruction of criticism" I don't really buy into that narrative, after all in the US the mainstream media has all but banned critical voices that attack Kamala Harris, in Germany thought crimes are used to silence critics of the government. Russia's policies are just what all states engage in. And i don't believe high culture necessarily has to be critical of the government anyway, if you remember Richard Strauss, quite good music, and not government critical at all.

  

4 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Yes, a paywall article, shame, it looked interesting.

 

The wiki article just tells of Stalin's population transfers, very common in those days, don't forget the Americans and Churchill sanctioned the ethnic cleansing of 14 million Germans after the war.

 

The Atlantic Council is of course a vile propaganda vehicle of NATO and the US, and has no place in a discussion on culture. In Russia it is banned by law. Quite rightly too.

 

But then your last link  is not bad, it gives the full picture of Russia's diverse ethnic make up, 190 ethnicities. Quite something.

 

As for "destruction of criticism" I don't really buy into that narrative, after all in the US the mainstream media has all but banned critical voices that attack Kamala Harris, in Germany thought crimes are used to silence critics of the government. Russia's policies are just what all states engage in. And i don't believe high culture necessarily has to be critical of the government anyway, if you remember Richard Strauss, quite good music, and not government critical at all.

 

Ok, so where would you rather live?

 

I had some very good friends, both passed on, but who were staunch communists. You know, defend Stalin, lovely eastern Europe full of happy people etc etc. Famine, what famine? But would they go anywhere near the Soviet Union, or latterly, Russia? Absolutely not! Because they were old school, they saw the world through a purely ideological perspective. It didn't matter what the Soviets did, it could only be for the common good. I find this completely duplicitous and delusional. I don't think you can compare Putin's extremely repressive policies against journalists, indeed, against all Russian citizens, with anything in the West. He started a war (yes, he did)  which every Russian I've met in Pattaya, and there are a lot, absolutely hates. Many are in Pattaya for that very reason. And it's a war against his own ethnic group, while claiming a sort of holy war against Kiev's Nazis who would prevent Russians from speaking Russian. Hitlerian, to be sure, casting Ukrainians as the untermensch from which oh so racially pure Slavic Russia needs to cleanse itself.

 

Only one link this time, as I concede most reports on the war are heavily biased one way or another. It's impossible to tell fact from fiction. It's also impossible to tell the exact state of the Russian economy, support for the war, or support for Putin, as nobody dares to say a damn' word in public for fear of arrest. This is his MO. Just like his Stalinist predecessors. The gulags are still operating.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/9/30/putin-says-ukraine-goals-will-be-achieved-as-he-repeats-neo-nazi-claims