Frozen in time: British expats losing out on pensions in Thailand

[bkk_mike]

2 minutes ago, Tiger1980 said:

What I cannot understand is why the BRITISH government is penalising BRITISH pensioners who retire to certain countries, what they should be doing is encouraging them to do so,thus saving many millions of £’s.

I base this on my own circumstances when I returned to live in the UK. with my wife and two children. Cost of state school per child approximately £6,000 x 2  = £12,000.

child allowance £2,160, my increase in state pension £4,512. thus a charge to the exchequer of £18,672 and this is without including medical and dental charges.

OK I am just one individual, but just imagine if tens of UK pensioners returned to the Uk what would be the overall cost, probably in excess of the 10 BILLION pounds we are now spending on the Illegal Economic Migrants.

 

What is it with the continual complaining about the spending on asylum seekers.

The asylum seeker spending is taken straight out of the foreign aid budget. (The people that actually pay for the cost of asylum seekers are the people in the countries where we would have spent the foreign aid money.)

 

Anyway, the amount spent on asylum seekers is due to the slow processing of claims for asylum (because granted and given the right to work, or disallowed and no longer entitled to stay in the country - either way, you stop paying to house them as asylum seekers).

[Patong2021]

Not mentioned is that the pensioners portrayed in the article are not in large number. It's the pensioners enjoying life in  India, Pakistan, Africa and the Middle East who make up the bulk of foreign retirees. Retirees with the adjustments today are receiving far more than they ever contributed.

[bkk_mike]

11 hours ago, proton said:

 

Or as some do keep a UK address and not having to make do 

The "let's commit pension fraud" option.

Unless you do as I intend to do - which is use the UK address for just over 6 months of the year (in the summer), and the Thai address for the rest of the year (skipping the UK winter).

Avoids the new Thai tax changes (admittedly a lot of my work pension is in Hong Kong, so is exempt from all that anyway), and means you still get the annual increase in the state pension, and access to the NHS when there.

[bkk_mike]

1 minute ago, Patong2021 said:

Not mentioned is that the pensioners portrayed in the article are not in large number. It's the pensioners enjoying life in  India, Pakistan, Africa and the Middle East who make up the bulk of foreign retirees. Retirees with the adjustments today are receiving far more than they ever contributed.

Depends how much you earned...

I left the UK because I was fed up paying £4K a month in tax and NI contributions.

[bkk_mike]

13 hours ago, Chivas said:

Astonishing

I havent read every page bar OP but these people knew there was no annual uplift

 

Its been like that since the 1950's in certain countries. Whether we think its right or wrong is immaterial

 

These people are utter weapons

It's not exactly advertised that if you retire to certain countries your state pension will be frozen.

 

But the problem is only likely to get worse as the people who used to retire to Spain for more sunshine and a lower cost of living, especially those with too little income to get a Spanish retirement visa, start to look further afield for a place where they can live with more sunshine, and a lower cost of living than the UK.

 

I know it's going to happen to me (when I get too old to do the 183 days a year in the UK and decide to stop flying back and forth). But I'm not even retired yet, and a state pension is not going to be my only source of income.

[bkk_mike]

13 hours ago, denishuahin said:

efficientI left the UK at 58yo, in 2002 I was with Equitable Life, for a guaranteed payout when 60 yo. As members know they were going bust so we had a choice except a cut on our pension, or they go bust we lose everything. I lost £18,000. The government stepped in to sort it all out after 4 years of claiming, i got compensation of £345 the dragged their feet so we would all die before settled it's still going on and some of us are still alive.
Then at 65 in 2007 I applied for my State Pension for Thailand, all very efficient , no problems at all. At this time, I didn't know about frozen pension. I was living ok, I had money to carry on. Then I started reading about the immigration into UK and how much the Government were giving them £49 per day. I wrote to the pension service about my pension, they directed me to the rules on being abroad and frozen pensions, which really make no sense at all if I had chosen to live in the Philippines, I would get the full pension. I have estimated I have lost out on about an average of 1500baht per month ( little for the first few years ) total would be about £ my pension is £107 pw, the state pension now is £169.50 per week if born before 1951, why?  I have a short fall over the last 4 years of around £20,000. This is how our government treat its people like me, I never claimed benefits, worked all my life paying into the system. But if go into UK on a rubber boat or in a lorry and get £17,885 per annum, never having paid in a penny.  Is something wrong here?
I'm going back in April 2005 to claim my full pension stay 6 months 1 day, and come back to Thailand on a higher frozen pension.

Your pension reverts back to your old frozen pension when you leave the UK again.

It doesn't reset to the new level.

You have to keep spending 183 days in the UK each year (or some other country where the pension isn't frozen) to stop it falling back to the original frozen amount.

[jori123]

26 minutes ago, bkk_mike said:

The "let's commit pension fraud" option.

Unless you do as I intend to do - which is use the UK address for just over 6 months of the year (in the summer), and the Thai address for the rest of the year (skipping the UK winter).

Avoids the new Thai tax changes (admittedly a lot of my work pension is in Hong Kong, so is exempt from all that anyway), and means you still get the annual increase in the state pension, and access to the NHS when there.

  There is no State Pension fraud, can come and go at will., no penalties

[it is what it is]

19 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Ex-nurses, firefighters & Police Officers all get “Final Salary” government pensions which are very generous & exempt from Tax in Thailand. 
 

It’s the average Joe with little/no additional pension that feels this the most. 

Should have moved to Philippines (where State Pension is not frozen). 

 

It’s the average Joe with little/no additional pension that feels this the most. 

 

or, who failed to plan ahead and make appropriate financial decisions in preparation for their old age

[it is what it is]

12 hours ago, proton said:

 

Or as some do keep a UK address and not having to make do 

 

i know, it's so simple, keep a presence in the uk

[bkk_mike]

10 hours ago, BritScot said:

Your obviously deranged and lacking in knowledge.  First illegal immigrants in the uk are not allowed to work so do not pay tax or contribute second, they get tax paid handouts like: free accommodation,  free medical/dental (prioritised before tax paying Brits), free money to spend as they wish, free phone, free, free, free more than British people. Infact the hotel barge they turned their noses up at could  have homed, greatful  homeless veterans.  

So you wanted to have veterans get Legionnaires disease, rather than the asylum seekers.

 

Bibby Stockholm was converted into accommodation to house the homeless in 1992. Do you think, given it's intended usage, that no expense was spared in the method of construction? I think it far more likely that every expense was spared.

 

And the barge wasn't new when it was converted into accommodation.

Edited October 2 by bkk_mike

[Chivas]

31 minutes ago, bkk_mike said:

It's not exactly advertised that if you retire to certain countries your state pension will be frozen.

 

 

 

Perhaps the DWP should take our adverts in the nreaks on Emmerdale and Coronation St for the terminally dimwitted

[bkk_mike]

4 minutes ago, Chivas said:

 

Perhaps the DWP should take our adverts in the nreaks on Emmerdale and Coronation St for the terminally dimwitted

Maybe a banner ad on the page where you check how much pension you're going to receive stating that if you retire abroad (depending on the country), your pension won't go up in line with inflation each year.

 

People who watch Emmerdale or Coronation Street aren't exactly the demographic that intend to leave the country.

[bkk_mike]

9 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

UK laws regulating pensions paid overseas have nothing to do with any banana republic, unless by banana republic you mean the UK itself.

 

Almost amusing................................but it wasn't.

 

UK can't be a banana republic - because you can't grow bananas in the UK (without a heated greenhouse).

[bkk_mike]

9 hours ago, theblether said:

 

I've continuously pointed out to the NHS that there is a large well of nurses and doctors available in Thailand. It's not one of their preferred hiring locations and that's a mistake. 

 

A lot of the nurses and doctors in Thailand can't leave.

Being a doctor is one of the things where the government will actually subsidise students to study abroad (you never wondered why the doctors all have good English), but as part of that agreement, they have to practice in Thailand (usually in a government hospital - at least part of the time).

 

They do have the option of paying the government back, with interest, if they leave before their time is up. But most don't. By the time the clock is run down, they'll have families and status in the local hospitals, etc.

It's also the case that, around the time that they're no longer required to stay, they may get quite a large pay rise.

[bkk_mike]

9 hours ago, sambum said:

 

Couldn't agree more, and not let's forget the £16,000 worth of free clothes that Starmer got, or that his Finance Minister finds it a struggle to get by on £86,000 p.a. (plus expenses) or that his Assistant gets paid more than he does (£170,000 p.a. plus expenses - £3000 more than the PM) And then he tells us, after taking £300 Winter Fuel Allowance off most pensioners, that "every pensioner, EVERY pensioner will be better off under Labour"!!!

I can't say what I really think, or I'd be banned, but suffice it to say that the man "talks a bad talk," and he and his party have  only been in power 3 months, and already they all seem to be feathering their nests a trifle early in their governance.

I'd struggle to get by on £86,000 p.a. in London. I left because I was getting annoyed because of the sheer amount of tax I was paying there (because I earned my income - it was all taxable...)

Admittedly, I couldn't use expenses to pay rent for a place in central London.

[bkk_mike]

7 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

To think Great Britain once virtually ruled the world with its empire, and now it is reduced to skimming money off the elderly, Whilst its socialist leaders shamelessly trouser hundreds of thousands of pounds in freebies

Where did it all go wrong?

Brexit

It's costing the country £2 billion a week.

The money to replace that has to come from somewhere.

[Autonuaq]

You are not alone. In other countries in the EU you seen the same happening. I can not recall but you are facing with the pre-brexit situation.

 

 

[shy coconut]

23 hours ago, theblether said:

 

My dad is just out of hospital today. Picked up by ambulance within twenty minutes and a seven day stay. 

 

The NHS is not the basketcase people are making out. 

I think the poster meant a 3 year wait for routine, non critical treatment, not an emergency requiring an ambulance.

I'm happy your father is back home.

[bigt3116]

23 hours ago, MCos said:

I sympathize with these people, but at least they get something 

For Kiwis one must be resident in NZ to get anything 

 

Not strictly true

 

https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/eligibility/seniors/superannuation/who-can-get-it/index.html

 

[DonniePeverley]

If you don't live in the UK, you shouldn't be getting any pension or an ability to come back and use the NHS. 

[bradiston]

7 hours ago, jori123 said:

Of course you could ask the organiser(here) of the letter from DWP,why he did it? what purpose was it for? were you (with your partner) so jealous that a hoax had to be played out......all these could be answered ,and have been...its on record anybody been prosected

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Posted 4 hours ago

  4 hours ago, proton said:

I have already posted it, just for you again

Expand  

..and I've answered, it was a hoax,  if you go to past threads on the subject the recipient (he did quote earlier) admitted he volunteered information to DWP for them to take action(wanted that letter).  You will see comments like "bingo" and "wow" from him, but you will have trawl through past quotes

•  

Posted 4 hours ago

  4 hours ago, bradiston said:

I'd like to see the original letter. This appears to be a mock-up.

I have already posted it, just for you again         It was hoax,ask him,his details are above

I don't follow. What exactly are you saying? You're saying it was a hoax, but your explanation is unfathomable. Jealousy? you don't provide any evidence it was a hoax.

[itsari]

On 10/2/2024 at 7:57 AM, MarkBR said:

Benefit fraud does not begin to equal the amount avoided & evaded by the rich

Prince Philip made the same remark.

Of course he was heckled by the offended offenders

[Rolo89]

Boomers have had it so easy with jobs, housing and pensions.

 

My dad is always talking about how he worked so hard for 40 years. In reality he had a easy office job, half days on fridays, often had long lunches on the golf course, was never in later than 5pm. Those kind of jobs don't exist anymore.

 

Someone in the same circumstances these days would just about be able to afford to rent a small 2 bed on 2 adults working.

 

House is now worth over a million (5 bed detached SE england), mum never had to work and they are bitterly complaining about the winter fuel payment taken away despite having an income in retirement of about 70k and no housing costs. They're taking out way more than they ever paid in to the system and are under some impression they're hard done by.

[itsari]

6 hours ago, bkk_mike said:

Brexit

It's costing the country £2 billion a week.

The money to replace that has to come from somewhere.

The UK Goverment began saving money on pension payments by discriminating what country a pensionist chose to live in the 1950s.

So not much help in covering the 2 billion a week shortfall from the Brexit blunder.

[Bday Prang]

12 hours ago, theblether said:

 

Aye, very good. 27% of British pensioners are millionaires. At least the same again are worth £500K plus.  And this forum is full of people moaning they didn't get an extra tenner a week increase this year.  Ya'll had fifty years to invest in property and private pensions and managed to contrive a situation you entered your later years skint. 

 

Just be quiet, 

 

Just give it a rest. 

If you can't add anything constructive , then it is you who should remain quiet, as nobody gives a to$$ what you think.  Why not do your trolling elsewhere

[Bobydog]

23 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I have been living in Thailand for over ten years. One of my Australian friends has lived here for the same time.

 

Neither of us has been taxed on our OAP in that time.

Good luck to him. Is he receiving Age pension and does he own a home in Australia

[Speedhump]

This is a very old matter, he should have known this before he emigrated, I did years ago. There is a cross-party committee in the UK parliament dedicated to changing this policy. It was only established in 2023 so it's early days, cross fingers.

[baansgr]

11 hours ago, bkk_mike said:

The pound is still well below where it was on the day before the vote.

Brexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year (estimate from Bloomberg - they have no skin in the game on either side - that's just their estimate for the actual costs).

 

Just one example of the way Brexit is pissing away money. The US investment banks had to transfer £2 trillion in financial assets out of the UK to capitalise their new EU-based legal entities. That, all by itself - taking into account nothing else caused by Brexit - is about £500m a week not reaching the Treasury.

And you wonder why there's a black hole in the government finances.

No it's not

[Chivas]

9 hours ago, bkk_mike said:

Maybe a banner ad on the page where you check how much pension you're going to receive stating that if you retire abroad (depending on the country), your pension won't go up in line with inflation each year.

 

People who watch Emmerdale or Coronation Street aren't exactly the demographic that intend to leave the country.

 

Yes that went straight above your head.....

[Patong2021]

18 hours ago, theblether said:

 

I've continuously pointed out to the NHS that there is a large well of nurses and doctors available in Thailand. It's not one of their preferred hiring locations and that's a mistake. 

 

There is NOT a large supply of doctors in Thailand. Thailand has serious shortages in some specialties such as mental health, geriatrics, pain management, nuclear medicine, novel surgery techniques and oncology.

The patient doctor ratio in Thailand is 0.67:1000. In the UK it is 3.0:1000   

Both Thailand and the UK have a shortage of GPs. Thailand GPs are the most likely to have the most limited of medical training and are least likely to speak a language other than Thai.  How do you expect a Thai GP to practice in the UK if he or she does not speak the language? And why would you even assume, Thai physicians would want to relocate to the UK?   Life is much better for a wealthy Thai in Thailand than in the UK.

 

The subject of nurses is even more obvious. The shortage of surgical and specialized care nurses in the UK will not be solved by recruiting from Thailand, because  the training is not the same. The education is different for the specialties and you just can't import people with a wave of the hand.

 

There are also licensing requirements to be satisfied.