Thailand Eyes Tax Revamp to Support Ageing Population’s Needs

[snoop1130]

 

Thailand finds itself at a crucial juncture as it confronts the financial implications of an ageing population. Deputy Finance Minister Julapun Amornvivat underscores the urgency for a revamped tax structure to tackle future expenses. Central to this endeavour is the exploration of a negative income tax (NIT) system aimed at supporting low-income citizens below a government-defined threshold.

 

The country, which first crossed into an ageing society status in 2005, now sees its 60-and-older demographic swelling to 20% of its populace—a significant 13 million people. As Thailand edges towards the aged society category, the government acknowledges that existing welfare systems must be reconsidered to prevent budgetary strain.

 

Julapun revealed that the NIT proposal is in its infancy, but its eventual implementation could reshape financial assistance. The scheme promises aid to those who fall below current taxation thresholds, including reforming how income is measured and modifying existing revenue laws to accommodate the system.

Despite the potential benefits, the journey to NIT realisation remains extensive. Initial steps involve an inclusive tax system where everyone, irrespective of current taxable income, participates. Discussions with the Fiscal Policy Office and Revenue Department are ongoing to determine how NIT might replace some welfare measures, possibly phasing out the state welfare card programme to streamline support.

 

With an eye on international frameworks, Julapun assures that thorough studies will guide the cabinet’s decision-making. As Thailand navigates this demographic tide, such tax reforms offer a strategic pathway to bolstering its welfare mechanisms, ensuring sustainable support for its ageing citizens.

 

File photo for reference only

 

-- 2024-10-15

 

 

[Rolo89]

They're very quickly running out of money with their emptying of the coffers. Changes incoming. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Dare I say it - they will be coming after all to pay more taxes - including us - but the wealthy elite will duck and weave their way under, over and around it. 

[Rolo89]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

the wealthy elite will duck and weave their way under

Wealthy foreigners will as the LTR visa guarantees tax exemptions by royal decree

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 minutes ago, Rolo89 said:

Wealthy foreigners will as the LTR visa guarantees tax exemptions by royal decree

If 50+ and retired and you have over $80K USD income the year before apply, or $40K USD and spend $250K on bonds or property in Thailand. Not many fall under that bar - and that exemption is likely to be challenged/checked in Court by TRD once global taxation commences in a few years. 

[Rolo89]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

If 50+ and retired and you have over $80K USD income the year before apply, or $40K USD and spend $250K on bonds or property in Thailand. Not many fall under that bar - and that exemption is likely to be challenged/checked in Court by TRD once global taxation commences in a few years. 

A tiny % worldwide fall under the wealthy citizen, or wealthy 50+ but globally there is a significant amount that have made Thailand their residence because of the tax breaks promised.

 

Tax free abroad income won't last forever, but probably still has quite a few years left and there's a lot of expensive condos to sell that no one will buy without thailand offering these tax breaks to the rich.

[Jenkins9039]

Problem with forced declaration is tax evasion charges are frequently applied.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Just now, Rolo89 said:

A tiny % worldwide fall under the wealthy citizen, or wealthy 50+ but globally there is a significant amount that have made Thailand their residence because of the tax breaks promised.

 

Tax free abroad income won't last forever, but probably still has quite a few years left and there's a lot of expensive condos to sell that no one will buy without thailand offering these tax breaks to the rich.

True - but there are a lot of high end condos not being bought (demand is down). Plus they are not talking about how many wealthy expats have taken up the LTR (or highly paid Executives etc).  Speculation is that they have been a failure, or they would definitely be doing what TAT always does and be claiming the wins. The Thai Elite Visa has also gone cold - ever since they upped the prices - IMO because they have no exemptions from any taxes that will/may be implemented. And of course the absolute disaster after the election, the MFP being disbanded, the PM being sacked, etc etc etc. Thailand is throwing away a lot of things - and this time the Chinese aint coming to save them because they have enough problems of their own.  

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Just now, Jenkins9039 said:

Problem with forced declaration is tax evasion charges are frequently applied.

Pardon? Dont understand.

[Rolo89]

11 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

True - but there are a lot of high end condos not being bought (demand is down). Plus they are not talking about how many wealthy expats have taken up the LTR (or highly paid Executives etc).  Speculation is that they have been a failure, or they would definitely be doing what TAT always does and be claiming the wins. The Thai Elite Visa has also gone cold - ever since they upped the prices - IMO because they have no exemptions from any taxes that will/may be implemented. And of course the absolute disaster after the election, the MFP being disbanded, the PM being sacked, etc etc etc. Thailand is throwing away a lot of things - and this time the Chinese aint coming to save them because they have enough problems of their own.  

Agree on that all.

 

I don't think they're anywhere near their target to get 1 million LTR visas by 2032, doubt they even have 1% of that target yet.

 

If anything I could see them making LTR less strict.

[ikke1959]

Money will solve all problems in Thailand that is easier than making the roads safer, so that less young people die, or that people will earn a decent income so they have more kids,  or give decent education so that people can get better jobs and earn more... No taxes and taxes and higher fees will solve all the problems.

 

And because there was never any investment because struggle already to make ends meet there is no nest egg as houses or savings for the elderly and the tourism will  go down further and further with less income for Thailand as there is no investment for new attractions, or ideas and with the change of the global  travel behavior in the years to come and the extreme old laws tourists will find better destinations..

Edited October 15 by ikke1959

[hotchilli]

If only the majority of Thailands breeding age could afford to raise more than one child the problem of an ageing society would sort itself out in time.

[Presnock]

13 hours ago, Rolo89 said:

Wealthy foreigners will as the LTR visa guarantees tax exemptions by royal decree

Why disparage ALL LTR holders?  just because the category says "wealthy pensioner", doesn't by any means that everyone holding that LTR is wealthjy by any international standards.  Also, by having 40K pension, one could satisfy the spending on bonds/property locally could be just the purchase of a condo satisfies that requirement.  For some of us retirees on a pension only, the LTR seems to me to be perfect! overall cost is lower (since they dropped the price 50%) no 90-day reports, in and out of country easier, and no tax on foreign income whether remitted (now) or totally (later maybe).  At least some retirees can get a break  with this visa - had a retirement O for 20 years - this LTR is much easier for me to do the necessary paperwork if nothing else!

[mfd101]

Enforcement of the current tax laws would probably solve most of the government's problems.

[Celsius]

Good to know Thailand will take care of me once I get older.

[mikebell]

'Thailand Eyes Tax Revamp to Support Ageing Population’s Needs' starting with aging farang pensioners.

[jcmj]

Back to the topic. The old aged here get sh*t for their living expenses. My MIL gets 800 baht a month Minus 7% VAT. Ridiculous. They need to give more support to the elderly people. 

[john donson]

if you never contributed to a pension fund, why expect anything in return???

 

this is how coffers in europe will be emptied in a generation

 

because of illegal immigration of people who only take and never worked or contributed 

 

did they ever pay tax? even the minimum ?

 

thais live like there is no tomorrow, why save, you could be dead tomorrow... spend spend spend

[TroubleandGrumpy]

15 hours ago, Rolo89 said:

Agree on that all.

I don't think they're anywhere near their target to get 1 million LTR visas by 2032, doubt they even have 1% of that target yet.

If anything I could see them making LTR less strict.

No they will not get to anywhere near a million as they claimed.  And that right there is the huge difference between western people and Thais - we remember those claims when it was launched (well many of us) - but Thais cant remember what they had for breakfast yesterday.  The result is that they see/feel all these 'good news' stories, but they never remember them and challenge that the claims are all false. They think everything is great because they only remember the 'feel' from all the BS stories they are fed.

 

They halved the LTR application fee and the result was SFA. They would definitely have to drop the bar a lot lower for the vast majority of interested people to apply.  I mean a wealthy pensioner with $80K USD annual income - when the average Pension income in USA is under $30K USD and in both Australia and UK it is under $20K USD.

 

Why would a retiree with an annual income over $80K USD come to Thailand - other than a holiday to one of the islands??  WTF would they live here full-time, when for that sort of money they can live full-time far closer to home and travel to wherever they want.  Why not Singapore or Japan if they want to live in Asia - even Malaysia and Indonesia have better options than Thailand for that sort of money.  The Thais are truly delusional - I agree with being Patriotic, but there is that and then there is simply delusional.

 

The vast majority of retirees who come here do so because it costs a lot less to live here than back home - and the weather and people are much more friendly. We put up with all the BS and the corruption and crime etc etc etc., because we weigh up the pros and cons. Why would a wealthy pensioner come here full-time - other than someone that is a wealthy family member who wishes to remain citizen (Chinese?) - or someone with plenty of money to come and go as desired (criminal and/or tax evader). 

[dinsdale]

They'll probably give them an extra Bt25.50 a month and say look how good we are at looking after our oldies.

[black tabby12345]

Thailand's planning for increased tax revenue for the aging population?

Who is in the their Scope?
Everyone Minus 0.1% of the Super Rich?

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, john donson said:

if you never contributed to a pension fund, why expect anything in return???

 

this is how coffers in europe will be emptied in a generation

 

because of illegal immigration of people who only take and never worked or contributed 

 

did they ever pay tax? even the minimum ?

 

thais live like there is no tomorrow, why save, you could be dead tomorrow... spend spend spend

US has a  similar problem, it has had billions of workers contributing to the social security fund which would have continued to give folks some of their money back except the Congress members while campaiging talk about what needs to be done to insure there will be SS for all in the future, once elected into the Congress none of them do anything to adjust what needs to be adjusted in the age for SS nor the amount needed to be increased for the current workers.  People are living longer so spend more years drawing SS and there has been no move to change any of the spending nor the need to increase the ss taxes on the current workers if they are to receive any ss.  2034/.2035 seems to be the key year for cuts in benefits,  etc.  COngres has for many years taken money out of the ss fund to pay for other programs, not just wasted the money.  Going to be some upset people in the future and even poorer than they thought!

 

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

No they will not get to anywhere near a million as they claimed.  And that right there is the huge difference between western people and Thais - we remember those claims when it was launched (well many of us) - but Thais cant remember what they had for breakfast yesterday.  The result is that they see/feel all these 'good news' stories, but they never remember them and challenge that the claims are all false. They think everything is great because they only remember the 'feel' from all the BS stories they are fed.

 

They halved the LTR application fee and the result was SFA. They would definitely have to drop the bar a lot lower for the vast majority of interested people to apply.  I mean a wealthy pensioner with $80K USD annual income - when the average Pension income in USA is under $30K USD and in both Australia and UK it is under $20K USD.

 

Why would a retiree with an annual income over $80K USD come to Thailand - other than a holiday to one of the islands??  WTF would they live here full-time, when for that sort of money they can live full-time far closer to home and travel to wherever they want.  Why not Singapore or Japan if they want to live in Asia - even Malaysia and Indonesia have better options than Thailand for that sort of money.  The Thais are truly delusional - I agree with being Patriotic, but there is that and then there is simply delusional.

 

The vast majority of retirees who come here do so because it costs a lot less to live here than back home - and the weather and people are much more friendly. We put up with all the BS and the corruption and crime etc etc etc., because we weigh up the pros and cons. Why would a wealthy pensioner come here full-time - other than someone that is a wealthy family member who wishes to remain citizen (Chinese?) - or someone with plenty of money to come and go as desired (criminal and/or tax evader). 

Again disparaging the LTR holders.  We have the same rights most likely that you have, that is we find Thailand to be more desireable than in our home country.  During my work career I lived in countries in Europe (Spain, Italy, Malta, Switzerland) Asia (Thailand, Japan, VN (wartime), Burma, Jakarta, PHilippines) Africa (Zambia, Angola (wartime) Central America (Guatemala).  In addition I travelled to many other countries too.  I kept a log of the  good and bad of every place I spent any time in, including food, weather, relationship with locals, et.al. and when it came time for retirement I picked #1  on the list - Thailand.  Some places had similar weather over all but big storms or earthquakes, or volcanoes erupting were negatives.  I absolutely hate cold weather so anyplace with a real winter was out,, war were out, more expensive were out, but Thailand just seemed the best bet.  I retired with an O , for 20 years did the yearly extensoin with the collections of paperwork and time - thus when I read about the LTR and cut in cost by 50%, it looked  like the best, especially as  the tax schemes came about  due to the OECD 2023

agreement  to nab those not paying taxes (but since I am an American I have always had to pay my taxes).  Anyway, yeah I could have lived in the US with my pension but life here in Thailand is to me still much better than living in the US.  I plan to die here in the future and have no idea how long that may be but for the next 9+ years I feel that I will still be using the best visa for my situation and desires.  I too also wonder why some of you are still here and for what reasons did you even pick Thailand?  I  personally am  not Chinese nor have any Chinese relatives, and I am not nor have ever been a criminal or tax evader.  I still love it here and I can only see people that have probably been avoiding paying taxes on earned income so you are the ones that brought about the tax situation changes here whether you are a Thai or an expat.