Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[connda]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

We've been over the numbers that show why the majority of Thai people don't earn enough to pay taxes, numerous times. The average wage is 15k per month or 180k per year, well below the level at which taxes are due.

But still, it's a requirement to file tax returns - but they don't.  Then those of you who are giving us excuses as to why average Thais don't file, then jump up and down in a hissy-fit telling those of us who have foreign income that is exempt by DTAs or that falls below the same tax exemption structure as the majority of Thais - that we need to file or else Uncle Somchai is going to get you!!! 
I'm not filing for the exact same reason as those "majority of Thai people don't earn enough to pay taxes."  Those Thais income are exempt under Thai tax guidelines, and so is what I remit to Thailand.  US Social Security is exempt via the DTA.
I've crunched the numbers and posted the guidelines months ago.  I own the Thai government nothing other than the 7% VAT they deduct from my purchases.  And like every other Thai person who doesn't pay income tax - I do pay Thailand's regressive VAT taxes as well as tariffs and duties on imported goods. 

"You don't pay taxes!!!"
Yeah - I do.  So does every person buying goods in Thailand.

You can't have it both ways.  I have absolutely no tax commitment to the Thai government, just like all of those "majority of Thai people who don't earn enough to pay taxes."  My earning are exempt like a whole lot of other farang expats here, and just like that majority of Thais you mention.

"But you need to file tax forms every year!"
So does every Thai citizen in Thailand.

Again - you people worry wayyyyyy to much.  Ask you local doctor for some diazepam.  You'll relax and feel better. Honest!
Stop beating a dead horse.  And if you are one of those "rich, wealthy, Hi-So farangs" - then hire a tax consultant or get on your private jet and leave the country for 180 days a year.  For the rest of us it's DNA - "Does Not Apply!"

[chiang mai]

14 minutes ago, connda said:

But still, it's a requirement to file tax returns - but they don't.  Then those of you who are giving us excuses as to why average Thais don't file, then jump up and down in a hissy-fit telling those of us who have foreign income that is exempt by DTAs or that falls below the same tax exemption structure as the majority of Thais - that we need to file or else Uncle Somchai is going to get you!!! 
I'm not filing for the exact same reason as those "majority of Thai people don't earn enough to pay taxes."  Those Thais income are exempt under Thai tax guidelines, and so is what I remit to Thailand.  US Social Security is exempt via the DTA.
I've crunched the numbers and posted the guidelines months ago.  I own the Thai government nothing other than the 7% VAT they deduct from my purchases.  And like every other Thai person who doesn't pay income tax - I do pay Thailand's regressive VAT taxes as well as tariffs and duties on imported goods. 

"You don't pay taxes!!!"
Yeah - I do.  So does every person buying goods in Thailand.

You can't have it both ways.  I have absolutely no tax commitment to the Thai government, just like all of those "majority of Thai people who don't earn enough to pay taxes."  My earning are exempt like a whole lot of other farang expats here, and just like that majority of Thais you mention.

"But you need to file tax forms every year!"
So does every Thai citizen in Thailand.

Again - you people worry wayyyyyy to much.  Ask you local doctor for some diazepam.  You'll relax and feel better. Honest!
Stop beating a dead horse.  And if you are one of those "rich, wealthy, Hi-So farangs" - then hire a tax consultant or get on your private jet and leave the country for 180 days a year.  For the rest of us it's DNA - "Does Not Apply!"

"But still, it's a requirement to file tax returns - but they don't" - which is why we have not seen evidence of a fine being levied for not filing, because a majority of Thai's don't earn enough to file. BUT, resident expat foreigners are not Thai's and they earn substantially more than Thai people, even if only counting pension income and the TRD knows this very well. The same excuse for not filing doesn't carry across to foreigners.

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

"But still, it's a requirement to file tax returns - but they don't" - which is why we have not seen evidence of a fine being levied for not filing, because a majority of Thai's don't earn enough to file. BUT, resident expat foreigners are not Thai's and they earn substantially more than Thai people, even if only counting pension income and the TRD knows this very well. The same excuse for not filing doesn't carry across to foreigners.

 

Apropros to the thread, which some might do well to watch

 

For @Yumthai, especially the part about CRS.

 

 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

In the case of the online system, the system is the assessment officer

Never done an online tax filing, so I could be wrong on this. But, isn't it the same as plunking numbers down into an Excel spreadsheet? You have to determine what those numbers are -- there's no TurboTax-like software system to keep you on the straight and narrow. If so, certainly a long cry from a human assessment officer looking over your shoulder, as the cyclist maintains.

 

No, TRD says self-assessment is the way things are done. Thus, you have to do all your income assessment considerations, and what TEDA numbers are applicable, and what your tax bill ends up to be. Nobody there to double check. Now, assessment officers are mentioned as getting involved, when somewhere down the road your return is flagged for irregularities. Makes sense -- but not up front, in the self-assessment phase.

[Yumthai]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Then you should comply with the rules.

 

And perhaps we should wait until summer 2025 before making any declaration on whether the rules are enforced or not.

What I do is none of your business. I will appreciate that you keep your advice to whoever is asking for it.  

The rules are currently not enforced, whether or not it will be enforced in the future is to anyone's guess.

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Apropros to the thread, which some might do well to watch

 

For @Yumthai, especially the part about CRS.

Regarding CRS I know everything I need to know. Speculations from pseudo-advisors are entertaining but not relevant.   

[The Cyclist]

11 hours ago, Yumthai said:

What I do is none of your business.

 

Then don't post it in a public forum, and no-one will be able to conment on it.

 

11 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Regarding CRS I know everything I need to know.

 

Clearly you do not

 

As this highlights

 

11 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Speculations from pseudo-advisors are entertaining but not relevant.   

 

Or you would, at the very least, understand that it was set up to deter and prevent tax avoidance / evasion.

 

You crack doing what you want to do. Just don't howl too loudly when it bites you on the ****.

 

 

[Yumthai]

52 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

12 hours ago, Yumthai said:

What I do is none of your business.

 

Then don't post it in a public forum, and no-one will be able to conment on it.

 

12 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Regarding CRS I know everything I need to know.

 

Clearly you do not

 

As this highlights

 

12 hours ago, Yumthai said:

Speculations from pseudo-advisors are entertaining but not relevant.   

 

Or you would, at the very least, understand that it was set up to deter and prevent tax avoidance / evasion.

 

You crack doing what you want to do. Just don't howl too loudly when it bites you on the ****.

You're clowning yourself. Have a ride.

[anchadian]

Certain members here need to grow up.

[The Cyclist]

17 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

You're clowning yourself. Have a ride.

 

Am I

 

You haven't read this thread yet.

 

Quote

Dear Valued Customer,

 

       We, KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED, would like to express our sincere gratitude for entrusting us in providing you our products and/or services. As part of Thailand’s participation in the Multilateral Competent Authority Agreement on the Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information (MCAA CRS), financial institutions are obligated to submit certain information to the Revenue Department, Ministry of Finance, in accordance with the Emergency Decree on Exchange of Information for Compliance with International Agreements on Taxation, B.E. 2566 (2023) and related regulations (hereinafter collectively referred to as the “CRS”).

 

I have highlighted the relevant parts

 

 

You make of it, what you will.

[redwood1]

19 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Am I

 

You haven't read this thread yet.

 

 

I have highlighted the relevant parts

 

 

You make of it, what you will.

 

Looks like a scam to me..Perfect for cleaning out bank accounts..

[Yumthai]

27 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Quote

Dear Valued Customer,

 

       We, KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED, would like to express our sincere gratitude for entrusting us in providing you our products and/or services. As part of Thailand’s participation in the Multilateral Competent Authority Agreement on the Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information (MCAA CRS), financial institutions are obligated to submit certain information to the Revenue Department, Ministry of Finance, in accordance with the Emergency Decree on Exchange of Information for Compliance with International Agreements on Taxation, B.E. 2566 (2023) and related regulations (hereinafter collectively referred to as the “CRS”).

 

I have highlighted the relevant parts

 

 

You make of it, what you will.

So what? It's a self-certification form that all OECD countries financial institutions will ask their customers to fill at some point.

Thai bank accounts for most of us are local bank accounts. For non US persons with no other tax residences it's NO everywhere.

Thai TIN is mandatory only if you have taxable income in Thailand. No issue here.

[shdmn]

My only question is what is it going to cost to pay someone to do this for me?  I will be getting a number and filing a return because I know I will have income that applies, but I don't want to have to do this myself.  Especially in the first couple years when everyone, including the TRD, is still figuring stuff out.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

So what? It's a self-certification form that all OECD countries financial institutions will ask their customers to fill at some point.

 

To comply with CRS.

 

Which is to deter and prevent tax avoidance / evasion.

 

4 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Thai TIN is mandatory only if you have taxable income in Thailand. No issue here.

 

I didn't  mention TIN's. But you are wrong again, a TIN is required if you have ' Assessable Income ' in Thailand.

 

Which is not the same as ' Taxable Income '

 

I posted the thread in response to your previous ' No enforcement ' comment. As I said in response, best wait until summer at  the earliest before making any comment on ' No enforcement '

 

Having had access to the CRS exchange information since 2023. Lets just say that I would not be surprised if the RD have already gone through it. Eliminated people who are exempt tax in Thailand due to DTA's and have a list of people that they expect to file a tax return between Jan - March 2025.

 

Those that have not filed by 31 March, might just get a knock on the door.

 

Last paragraph, is of course, speculation on my part. Although far from the realms of possibility.

 

The sending out of documentation in November concerning FATCA / CRS by banks, is not something that happened bt accident or a coincidence.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, shdmn said:

My only question is what is it going to cost to pay someone to do this for me?  I will be getting a number and filing a return because I know I will have income that applies, but I don't want to have to do this myself.  Especially in the first couple years when everyone, including the TRD, is still figuring stuff out.

 

I cannot recommend any names, but I have seen prices rangeing from about 8k up to 25k.

 

The complexity of your financial arrangements will determine the cost.

 

Best to phone around or have a hunt on the internet.

[quake]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Having had access to the CRS exchange information since 2023. Lets just say that I would not be surprised if the RD have already gone through it. Eliminated people who are exempt tax in Thailand due to DTA's and have a list of people that they expect to file a tax return between Jan - March 2025.

Those that have not filed by 31 March, might just get a knock on the door.

 

No way are they that organized at present, with regards to expats. 

 

[4myr]

8 minutes ago, shdmn said:

My only question is what is it going to cost to pay someone to do this for me?  I will be getting a number and filing a return because I know I will have income that applies, but I don't want to have to do this myself.  Especially in the first couple years when everyone, including the TRD, is still figuring stuff out.

 

I've shopped around. The advisers themselves have also navigate with the RD tax officers to find answers. Not all details are crystal clear.

 
So it depends on your personal income situation. The problem is you need to dive into the matter a bit and have a few free consultations around. You also need to do your due diligence that they are registered as a tax agent at the RD and have a good compliance history.
 

[The Cyclist]

20 minutes ago, quake said:

 

No way are they that organized at present, with regards to expats. 

 

 

That's why I said 

 

28 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Lets just say that I would not be surprised if the RD have already gone through it.

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, wouldn't be too difficult, and very simple regarding people who direct deposit things like Government Pensions, US SS etc.

 

The banks would do this for their Individual customes, the transfer code that comes with the remittance readily identifies where the remittance comes from and what it is for.

 

As I have said before, the people who will probably be getting looked at are the people that transfer through a home bank account, wise, or other types of transfer into Thailand..

[quake]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

That's why I said 

 

 

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, wouldn't be too difficult, and very simple regarding people who direct deposit things like Government Pensions, US SS etc.

 

The banks would do this for their Individual customes, the transfer code that comes with the remittance readily identifies where the remittance comes from and what it is for.

 

As I have said before, the people who will probably be getting looked at are the people that transfer through a home bank account, wise, or others of that ilk.

 

OK mate.

Who did you say you work for.

 

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, quake said:

 

OK mate.

Who did you say you work for.

 

 

I don't work for anyone, I'm fully retired

 

 

[redwood1]

37 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

To comply with CRS.

 

Which is to deter and prevent tax avoidance / evasion.

 

 

I didn't  mention TIN's. But you are wrong again, a TIN is required if you have ' Assessable Income ' in Thailand.

 

Which is not the same as ' Taxable Income '

 

I posted the thread in response to your previous ' No enforcement ' comment. As I said in response, best wait until summer at  the earliest before making any comment on ' No enforcement '

 

Having had access to the CRS exchange information since 2023. Lets just say that I would not be surprised if the RD have already gone through it. Eliminated people who are exempt tax in Thailand due to DTA's and have a list of people that they expect to file a tax return between Jan - March 2025.

 

Those that have not filed by 31 March, might just get a knock on the door.

 

Last paragraph, is of course, speculation on my part. Although far from the realms of possibility.

 

The sending out of documentation in November concerning FATCA / CRS by banks, is not something that happened bt accident or a coincidence.

 

Knock on the door....lol

 

Sir lay off the meth, its making you very paranoid....

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Apropros to the thread, which some might do well to watch

 

For @Yumthai, especially the part about CRS.

 

 

 

What work permit does he have to work in this Thai only restricted profession? 

When I see videos like this, I always wonder, why does the interviewer never ask about the interviewees work permit?

 

If I have to 'abide by the rules', why does he not have to?

[The Cyclist]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What work permit does he have to work in this Thai only restricted profession? 

 

No idea, but here is  his website.

 

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/

 

Registered Office is in Bangkok, so I would think ( But dont know ) that he is legal and above board.

 

It might be fair to assume that if he is not legit, he would have been nabbed by now.

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

No idea, but here is  his website.

 

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/

 

Registered Office is in Bangkok, so I would think ( But dont know ) that he is legal and above board.

 

It might be fair to assume that if he is not legit, he would have been nabbed by now.

Nah,

All the foreign crooks and scammers working in prohibited professions have 'office manager' work permits. They are only legally allowed to interact with their office staff, if they interact with customers they are illegals. That's why they NEVER show their work permits.

 

Doesn't look like this interview is being held in a registered Bangkok office either.

So again, breaking the conditions of his work permit.

 

 

[The Cyclist]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Nah,

All the foreign crooks an scammers working in prohibited professions have 'office manager' work permits.

They are only legally allowed to interact with their office staff, if they interact with customers they are illegals.

That's why they NEVER show their work permits.

 

 

 

Well, you could always phone or email him and ask direct.

 

Contact details are in the link provided. Which would satisfy your curiosity, rather than wondering aloud on here.

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Well, you could always phone or email him and ask direct.

 

Contact details are in the link provided. Which would satisfy your curiosity, rather than wondering aloud on here.

You're the one shilling for him, so you ask him!

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're the one posting the video as legit advice, you ask him!

 

Sorry ?
 

You are the one questioning his credentials.

 

If you are so vexed about the guy, take his website and videos to the authorities and tell them he is operating without the correct credentials.

 

He might even be in the same boat as the shouty American guy.... A Thai Citizen

 

But you crack, if it makes you feel better.

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

To comply with CRS.

One last time:

Financial Institutions have to comply with CRS.

CRS policy requires FIs to collect some information from individuals. CRS does not require FIs to require their customers to comply/file with their tax jurisdictions. FIs have no mandate to do the tax authority job.

Individuals comply with their banks policy (or not and they may face account restrictions/closure).

Individuals do not have to comply directly with CRS.

 

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

I didn't  mention TIN's. But you are wrong again, a TIN is required if you have ' Assessable Income ' in Thailand.

I've just quoted the KBANK FATCA/CRS Individual Self-Certification form you linked and obviously didn't read, mentioning next to Thai-TIN field in red letters: "Mandatory if you have taxable income in Thailand." 

Ridicule.

[essexman]

I too have received an email from kasikorn Bank.

 

Subject: Request of FATCA/CRS information

 

 

Inbox

Search for all messages with label Inbox

 

Remove label Inbox from this conversation

 

 

K-Customer FATCA-CRS Update <[email protected]>	Sat, Nov 23, 9:03 PM (15 hours ago)
to me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Valued Customer,

       We, KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED, would like to express our sincere gratitude for entrusting us in providing you our products and/or services. As part of Thailand’s participation in the Multilateral Competent Authority Agreement on the Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information (MCAA CRS), financial institutions are obligated to submit certain information to the Revenue Department, Ministry of Finance, in accordance with the Emergency Decree on Exchange of Information for Compliance with International Agreements on Taxation, B.E. 2566 (2023) and related regulations (hereinafter collectively referred to as the “CRS”).
       The CRS aims to combat tax evasion by individuals residing outside Thailand and to ensure compliance with international taxation standards. In light of these requirements, we kindly request your cooperation in completing the following steps:
       1. complete and sign the attached forms, which include:
           1.1 FATCA/CRS Individual Self-Certification,
           1.2 IRS Form W-9 (if applicable), and
           1.3 IRS Form W-8BEN (if applicable);
       2. provide a certified true copy of your passport; and
       3. return the completed forms and document(s) abovementioned to us by email at [email protected] no later than December 20, 2024.
       We sincerely appreciate your prompt attention to this matter and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. If you have already completed these actions or your information has already been up-to-date, please kindly disregard this request.
       Should you have any questions or require clarification regarding the CRS or how it applies to your specific situation, please consult with your legal or tax advisor. You may also refer to the Revenue Department, Ministry of Finance, for further guidance. Please note that KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED does not provide you any tax or legal advice, and we shall not be held liable for any damages, whether direct or indirect, arising from your use of or reliance on any information provided by us related to CRS or taxation.
       If you have any questions or require any assistance, please do not hesitate to contact K-Contact Center at Tel: 02-888-8888, ext. 876.
       Please be informed that, in accordance with our policy, none of your personal information shall be requested via telephone or SMS.


Best regards,
KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED

 

 

 

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[The Cyclist]

17 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I've just quoted the KBANK FATCA/CRS Individual Self-Certification form you linked and obviously didn't read, mentioning next to Thai-TIN field in red letters: "Mandatory if you have taxable income in Thailand." 

 

You require a TIN in Thailand, if you are a Tax Resident and have ' Assessable Income ' Agreed ?

 

I posted the link to other thread, to highlight that moves are afoot regarding Expats in Thailand, which are to related to FATCA / CRS.

 

I never posted it, due to  specific wording that might be on the attached forms, or on the generic send out from K Bank . Which may contain errors due to translation.

 

You apparently have nothing to worry about, so I am not sure why you are getting so sentimental.