Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[chiang mai]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why not tell them you inherited the money (millions) from your parents who died 20 years ago? And you've had no income of any kind since the day you inherited.

Two reasons, 1, he can't prove that. 2, it's tax evasion.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

No, not assessable -- at least initially. Whatever your account balance was on 31 Dec 2023 -- this is all non assessable, until this amount has been totally remitted. Then, yes, reinvested interest now becomes assessable.

 

Why? Because of the fungibility of money, i.e., no specificity of individual lots possible. Thus, you're allowed to use FIFO (first in, first out), which, of course, means everything before that post 2023 interest. See this article from a 2012 Bangkok Post:

 

 

"what about the 2024 accrued interest from that tax exempt account?"

 

You think his 2024 interest is not Thai assessable.....really?

[NoDisplayName]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You have to register it with the Revenue dept. and not totally tax exempt.

 

AFAIK this still falls under self-assessment, there is no 'registration' of the gift.

 

Can you provide a link detailing this?  I've been looking at annual gifts to my wife and there doesn't appear to be requirement for documentation, unless going over either the US or Thai taxation thresholds, at which point tax on the overage will be due.

 

[JimGant]

16 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

"what about the 2024 accrued interest from that tax exempt account?"

 

You think his 2024 interest is not Thai assessable.....really?

Read the BP on fungible accounts. Say your account in question had $100k on 12/31/2023; and in 2024 this account has a reinvested interest amount of $5k. Under FIFO -- your option to use -- that $5k is not assessable until the  entire amount of $100k has been remitted to Thailand, which maybe would be several years away. Then that 2024 reinvested interest -- and any since -- would be assessable if remitted to Thailand.

[Cuchulainn]

5 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Read the BP on fungible accounts. Say your account in question had $100k on 12/31/2023; and in 2024 this account has a reinvested interest amount of $5k. Under FIFO -- your option to use -- that $5k is not assessable until the  entire amount of $100k has been remitted to Thailand, which maybe would be several years away. Then that 2024 reinvested interest -- and any since -- would be assessable if remitted to Thailand.

Thanks Jim.

 

I read that article in the BKK Post. That seems to only pertain to shares and not principal in an account. Can FIFO be applied to funds in an account?

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Cuchulainn said:

Thanks Jim.

 

I read that article in the BKK Post. That seems to only pertain to shares and not principal in an account. Can FIFO be applied to funds in an account?

 

I believe it does, as long as you have a statement as of the 31 December 2023.

[Cuchulainn]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I believe it does, as long as you have a statement as of the 31 December 2023.

Yes, I have. Statements as far back as 2011

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Why not tell them you inherited the money (millions) from your parents who died 20 years ago? And you've had no income of any kind since the day you inherited.

Don't tell them anything. Just keep good notes about how much of that 12/31/2023 balance was subsequently remitted.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, Cuchulainn said:

Yes, I have. Statements as far back as 2011

 

Then I think ( I cannot be sure ) that you can remit the sum of your account as of 31 Dec to Thailand free of taxation.

 

Once that sum of money has been used up, you would then probably be liable for taxation.

[JimGant]

5 minutes ago, Cuchulainn said:

Can FIFO be applied to funds in an account?

Yes. And, again -- fungibilty -- requires you to go to an accounting system that can't rely on cost and sales price of specific lots -- 'cause you ain't got any specific lots or tranches.

[Cuchulainn]

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Then I think ( I cannot be sure ) that you can remit the sum of your account as of 31 Dec to Thailand free of taxation.

 

Once that sum of money has been used up, you would then probably be liable for taxation.

If I can live off the remitted interest alone ( and maybe dip into the principal now and again), then I could live tax free for years. Maybe till the end of my days!!

[The Cyclist]

Just now, Cuchulainn said:

If I can live off the interest alone ( and maybe dip into the principal now and again), then I could live tax free for years. Maybe till the end of my days!!

 

Sure

 

I got my private pension returned to my UK bank as of December 2023, and if I need to I will start to draw down my savings in my Thai FCA.

 

My Government pension will still wing its way to Thailand ona monthly basis.

[chiang mai]

21 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Read the BP on fungible accounts. Say your account in question had $100k on 12/31/2023; and in 2024 this account has a reinvested interest amount of $5k. Under FIFO -- your option to use -- that $5k is not assessable until the  entire amount of $100k has been remitted to Thailand, which maybe would be several years away. Then that 2024 reinvested interest -- and any since -- would be assessable if remitted to Thailand.

OK we agree, your wording threw me for a moment..

[JimTripper]

On 11/8/2024 at 8:17 AM, Aussie999 said:

that does not suit those who live here, with family.

 

On 11/7/2024 at 1:36 PM, Letseng said:

You get around the limit by leaving the country after 182 days. Come back another year.

Unless your family would benefit from moving and saving on taxes.

[Cuchulainn]

Ok, many thanks to all.

 

I will look further into FIFO.

 

Do I still have to file a tax return?

I know you will all probably shout NO, but when it comes to visa extension renewal, immigration may ask for proof of tax returns or even some proof of liaison with the TRD

[JimTripper]

1 minute ago, Cuchulainn said:

Ok, many thanks to all.

 

I will look further into FIFO.

 

Do I still have to file a tax return?

I know you will all probably shout NO, but when it comes to visa extension renewal, immigration may ask for proof of tax returns or even some proof of liaison with the TRD

You seem to be in a hurry to close the thread. Why don't you stick around awhile?

[samtam]

1 hour ago, Cuchulainn said:

Ok, many thanks to all.

 

I will look further into FIFO.

 

Do I still have to file a tax return?

I know you will all probably shout NO, but when it comes to visa extension renewal, immigration may ask for proof of tax returns or even some proof of liaison with the TRD

 

Do I still have to file a tax return?

 

I am responding purely on my experience of a response from my RD office:

It depends on whether you have assessable income earned in 2024 and brought into Thailand above THB60k. If you don't, "no". If you do, "yes". 

[Cuchulainn]

No assessable income (see above comments, as my savings are pre 2024), but will immigration accept no submission of tax documents when applying for a yearly extension?

 

Like the TM30,sometimes they ask, sometimes they don't!!

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Cuchulainn said:

No assessable income (see above comments, as my savings are pre 2024), but will immigration accept no submission of tax documents when applying for a yearly extension?

 

Like the TM30,sometimes they ask, sometimes they don't!!

I extended my retirement visa last week, no tax documents were requested.

[samtam]

1 hour ago, Cuchulainn said:

No assessable income (see above comments, as my savings are pre 2024), but will immigration accept no submission of tax documents when applying for a yearly extension?

 

Like the TM30,sometimes they ask, sometimes they don't!!

 

So far it does not seem to be a requirement, as noted above, albeit before 1 January 2025. It's hazardous to try and give a definitive answer about IMM's requirements, especially as these issues seem to vary from office to office. I expect we might hear differently after 1 January 2025. But a lot of issues will come into play wherein the interests and "opportunities" of 2 government departments do not align. I'm sure it wont take a very long time before RD handles "procedures" in a similar way to IMM.

 

As I've said, "a tangled web is being woven pretty quickly", which of course makes me understand the distaste and disbelief expressed by a number of people about this new "interpretation". But possibly, just possibly, because RD interacts with other countries, they might not want to trash their reputation internationally; immigration "procedures" are a home alone issue, managed in the Thai way.

 

Call me old fashioned, just as with IMM, I want to be above board with RD.

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, Cuchulainn said:

No assessable income (see above comments, as my savings are pre 2024), but will immigration accept no submission of tax documents when applying for a yearly extension?

 

Some as @chiang mai, I renewed last Thursday. Nothing mentioned about TIN's or tax.

 

In and out in 30 minutes.

[Lorry]

12 hours ago, 4myr said:

what's the criteria that Thai banks use to send these FATCA/CRS emails?

I got one from KBank, but not from Bangkok Bank [yet]. My wife did not get any email from any bank at all.
 

They wrote it in the emailed answer someone posted here. 

They are not obliged to ask everybody. Only if there is reason to suspect foreign tax residency. 

CRS is much more relaxed than the US FATCA, European banks often ask every single customer to fill out a FATCA form.

[EVENKEEL]

10 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

I hear you.....Any self styled tax advisors, I suggest stocking up on a soap on a rope...

Keep up the good fight RW1. Be prepared for swift retaliation.

[Lorry]

12 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

This is called fishing for a reaction......Thailand does this all the time....They haphazardly release a possible controversial new policy.....Just to see what the reaction is.....If the reaction is bad often times its followed up with, this was all a big misunderstanding.....And the new policy is never heard from again....

Your answer is complete BS.

This mail is just a logical consequence of CRS (and FATCA).

It's actually very nice of Kbank to send people this mail.

They ask questions first.

There is a Belgian guy who posted,  his bank told him after the fact what they had done with his financial information. 

In my home-country, they don't tell you at all, neither before or after the fact.  And,  of course, they don't ask you questions. They just send your financial information all over the world without you ever knowing.

[EVENKEEL]

7 hours ago, Lorry said:

Your answer is complete BS.

This mail is just a logical consequence of CRS (and FATCA).

It's actually very nice of Kbank to send people this mail.

They ask questions first.

There is a Belgian guy who posted,  his bank told him after the fact what they had done with his financial information. 

In my home-country, they don't tell you at all, neither before or after the fact.  And,  of course, they don't ask you questions. They just send your financial information all over the world without you ever knowing.

How would your home country bank know who to send info. I don't tell anybody anything.  Problem solved.