UK Pensioners in Thailand Face New Scrutiny Over Pension Fraud

[James9999]

5 hours ago, transam said:

I, for one, don't care if anyone is on the pension fraud thingy, I looking out for others with info is my aim.

YOU, haven't watched any of the vids, but good lucky opening your new, must have, stand alone, DWP bank account in the UK to RECEIVE your pension...........😱

Right, where does pension fraud come against the black economy and people paid in cash, unemployment benefit paid to people working, child benefit fraud, banking scams, free handouts and the cost of housing illegal immigrants, the aid budget funding space programmes and corruption. oh and tech companies not paying their fare share. That is what bothers me.

[bradiston]

7 minutes ago, James9999 said:

Not bothered about people claiming unemployment benefit and working, builders who demand to be paid in cash, benefit claimants who aren't even in the country, child benefit payments for children not even in the country, Then the biggest scum bag cheats of the lot, the tech companies with their off shore tax havens. No you go after pensioner living overseas and getting the annual increment. Must be all of 0.01% and all the scum bag cheats screwing over the UK. The biggest of sharing the same name as a South American river or Thai retail coffee chain. Websightes, for God's sake learn some English.

 

£6 billion in overpaid UC.

 

"The Universal Credit overpayment rate was 12.4% (£6,460m) in FYE 2024, compared with 12.7% (£5,500m) in FYE 2023."

 

The DWP underpaid state pensions as follows:

 

"The State Pension underpayment rate was 0.4% (£470m) in FYE 2024, compared with 0.5% (£580m) in FYE 2023."

 

£470 million!

 

See also

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fraud-and-error-in-the-benefit-system-financial-year-2023-to-2024-estimates#:~:text=The main stories from the,due to fraud and error

 

And

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud#:~:text=Your benefits can be reduced,are called 'sanctionable benefits'.

 

State pension is NOT sanctionable, neither can it be reduced or stopped. I wish people would be bothered to do a little reading before posting codswallop on this forum.

 

It goes on.

[transam]

1 minute ago, James9999 said:

Right, where does pension fraud come against the black economy and people paid in cash, unemployment benefit paid to people working, child benefit fraud, banking scams, free handouts and the cost of housing illegal immigrants, the aid budget funding space programmes and corruption. oh and tech companies not paying their fare share. That is what bothers me.

Nothing to do with YOUR benefit payment................😋

[James9999]

4 hours ago, baansgr said:

It's nothing new, they have always been able to look at any ones bank account if they have suspicion of money laundering/ benefit fraud etc. That will always be the case, what is different is the ease of obtaining such information from banks. Pretty much ado about nothing, a mountain and mole hill. Lots of jealous scaremongering going on but funny to read the replies from ex SAS and police inspetors

From the UK Government

"The Home Office estimates that Serious and organised crime costs the UK at least £24 billion annually. The NCA estimates that the amount of money laundered in the UK could be between £36 billion and £90 billion.

Factsheet – The Criminal Finances Bill - GOV.UK"

The money launderers must be rubbing their hands now that the focus of attention is going to be pension fraudsters.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, James9999 said:

From the UK Government

"The Home Office estimates that Serious and organised crime costs the UK at least £24 billion annually. The NCA estimates that the amount of money laundered in the UK could be between £36 billion and £90 billion.

Factsheet – The Criminal Finances Bill - GOV.UK"

The money launderers must be rubbing their hands now that the focus of attention is going to be pension fraudsters.

I don't think there is one bloke sitting at a desk sorting both..........🤭

[Baht Simpson]

25 minutes ago, bradiston said:

 

State pension is NOT sanctionable, neither can it be reduced or stopped.

That is true. But it also should be noted that they can reduce or stop other benefits that are sanctionable to recover monies lost through State Pension fraud, although this is obviously less relevant for non-residents.

 

They also have the option to recover money via the courts or by penalty. Again this is less likely because the maximum penalty is GBP 5,000 and there would be substantial costs going through the courts.

Edited Tuesday at 10:37 AM by Baht Simpson

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, transam said:

Yeh, riiiight....................🤣

 

But, you maybe right, but the vast majority of numpties would have listened to numpties, the no facts numpty brigade, and get stuffed, big time.........🤕

Though I am sure you will tell us how to get around the latest DWP thingies, eh, and past fraudulent thieving.........🤭

 

 

 

Your paranoia is affecting the quality of your posts...

[James9999]

36 minutes ago, delgarcon said:

Yeah, all the Brits who moves to Thailand or lives here, knows the rules. Fair or unfair, has nothing to do with it. If they make a choice to move to Thailand, they will also make a choice to go by the rules.

Rules can be wrong and should be changed, The rules allowed 72 people to be burned to death in Grenfell Tower. Should the rules about cladding also not be changed. "The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government's best estimate is that the programme to remove dangerous cladding from towers over 11 metres tall will cost an estimated £16.6bn – £5.1bn of that from the taxpayer – and so far only a third of the blocks that have been identified have been completed" So there is another £5.1 billion of taxpayers money p155ed up against the wall. HS2 another black hole that taxpayers money is being p1ssed into. Off topic but just balancing up where the Government is squandering money.

[delgarcon]

3 minutes ago, James9999 said:

Rules can be wrong and should be changed, The rules allowed 72 people to be burned to death in Grenfell Tower. Should the rules about cladding also not be changed. "The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government's best estimate is that the programme to remove dangerous cladding from towers over 11 metres tall will cost an estimated £16.6bn – £5.1bn of that from the taxpayer – and so far only a third of the blocks that have been identified have been completed" So there is another £5.1 billion of taxpayers money p155ed up against the wall. HS2 another black hole that taxpayers money is being p1ssed into. Off topic but just balancing up where the Government is squandering money.

I didnt write this James, it was Gottfrid.

[bradiston]

58 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

That is true. But it also should be noted that they can reduce or stop other benefits that are sanctionable to recover monies lost through State Pension fraud, although this is obviously less relevant for non-residents.

 

They also have the option to recover money via the courts or by penalty. Again this is less likely because the maximum penalty is GBP 5,000 and there would be substantial costs going through the courts.

Well, I'm not sure how they could do what you say in your first paragraph, and I'm not sure I believe it. You mean for instance reduce your housing benefit because they say you were overpaid state pension due to fraud?

 

And I thought not sanctionable meant you couldn't be fined or penalised in any way?

 

Way out of my ken.

[3NUMBAS]

some claimants maybe dead and kept on ice and still claiming 

[James9999]

52 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

some claimants maybe dead and kept on ice and still claiming 

 

Well I don't think it is the claimant who is still doing the "claiming" is it.

[James9999]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

Well, I'm not sure how they could do what you say in your first paragraph, and I'm not sure I believe it. You mean for instance reduce your housing benefit because they say you were overpaid state pension due to fraud?

 

And I thought not sanctionable meant you couldn't be fined or penalised in any way?

 

Way out of my ken.

How can you be paid state pension due to fraud. Pension credit may be but how can you fraudulently be paid the pension. And clearly not somebody in Thailand, how would they be getting housing benefit.

 

[jori123]

6 hours ago, transam said:

It seems you are struggling............🤔

Only one here sunshine,you.   Trolley  and off it come to mind    no investigation for oap,says so,never mind.  Keep calm and carry on

 

[bradiston]

11 minutes ago, James9999 said:

How can you be paid state pension due to fraud. Pension credit may be but how can you fraudulently be paid the pension. And clearly not somebody in Thailand, how would they be getting housing benefit.

 

If you misstate your whereabouts in relation to unfreezing a pension, then that could be considered fraud. Not much they can or will do about it except freeze it where appropriate. People are creative with their fraudulent claims. They can claim housing benefit while living in Thailand. I'm not here to defend any of this. I was just responding to another poster who suggested they could deduct amounts from another benefit to cover overpayments made as a result of fraud on your state pension. I just wondered how, that's all.

 

This topic has, as usual, been done to death.

Edited Tuesday at 01:00 PM by bradiston

[jori123]

2 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

That is true. But it also should be noted that they can reduce or stop other benefits that are sanctionable to recover monies lost through State Pension fraud, although this is obviously less relevant for non-residents.

 

They also have the option to recover money via the courts or by penalty. Again this is less likely because the maximum penalty is GBP 5,000 and there would be substantial costs going through the courts.

Oap is non sanctionable,it s a disqualified benefit meaning other benefits maybe adjusted, maybe catch word.  There is no penalty for r unfrozen pension in th

[proton]

2 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

That is true. But it also should be noted that they can reduce or stop other benefits that are sanctionable to recover monies lost through State Pension fraud, although this is obviously less relevant for non-residents.

 

They also have the option to recover money via the courts or by penalty. Again this is less likely because the maximum penalty is GBP 5,000 and there would be substantial costs going through the courts.

 

If they won a case sure the fraudster would have to pay their legal costs?

[James9999]

8 minutes ago, bradiston said:

If you misstate your whereabouts in relation to unfreezing a pension, then that could be considered fraud. Not much they can or will do about it except freeze it where appropriate. People are creative with their fraudulent claims. They can claim housing benefit while living in Thailand. I'm not here to defend any of this. I was just responding to another poster who suggested they could deduct amounts from another benefit to cover overpayments made as a result of fraud on your state pension. I just wondered how, that's all.

 

 

It beggars belief that the authorities in the UK authorise a housing benefit claim for a person not in the UK. I can't get my head around how it is possible. Shouldn't there be some sort of rent book.

[bradiston]

6 minutes ago, jori123 said:

Oap is non sanctionable,it s a disqualified benefit meaning other benefits maybe adjusted, maybe catch word.  There is no penalty for r unfrozen pension in th

Do please write in comprehensible English @jori123. "maybe catch word"? "There is no penalty for r unfrozen pension in th"?

[bradiston]

1 minute ago, James9999 said:

It beggars belief that the authorities in the UK authorise a housing benefit claim for a person not in the UK. I can't get my head around how it is possible. Shouldn't there be some sort of rent book.

A rent book? What does that prove? You can buy them in any stationers. I guess you don't understand the benefits system in the UK.

 

I haven't claimed any benefits in 20 years. I'm just batting these responses back.

[jori123]

12 hours ago, transam said:

That is a complete fabrication and will be reported.....

 

You're saying you reported a post, your own post that was duplicated here. You deny authoring that post; I'm truly flabbergasted.  I could put a link up to remind you if you so wish, please indicate  lol

Edited Tuesday at 01:31 PM by jori123

[jori123]

7 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Do please write in comprehensible English @jori123. "maybe catch word"? "There is no penalty for r unfrozen pension in th"?

• "OAP (Old Age Pension) is non-sanctionable, meaning other benefits may be adjusted. 'Maybe catch word'

• "There is no penalty for an unfrozen pension in Thailand."

On phone at times ,bit difficult

 

  The DWP categorizes the OAP pension into one of four disqualified classes, where no direct sanctions can be applied. However, adjustments to other benefits may be possible, though it is challenging to determine how this could be done. The maximum period the DWP can investigate any wrongful claims is six years.

Edited Tuesday at 01:21 PM by jori123

[The Cyclist]

21 minutes ago, James9999 said:

It beggars belief that the authorities in the UK authorise a housing benefit claim for a person not in the UK. I can't get my head around how it is possible. Shouldn't there be some sort of rent book.

 

Neither can the DWP

 

Quote

The perpetrators of the largest case of benefit fraud in England and Wales have been jailed for between three and eight years.

The gang admitted to stealing more than £50m between them.

The three women and two men - all Bulgarian - made thousands of false claims for Universal Credit between 2016 and 2021.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c844g4kpjxdo

 

The claimants had never set foot in the UK, and it was a Bulgarian Policeman, who started asking questions as to where all the money was coming from, that the fraud came to light.

 

Quote

The court heard that messages and images were exchanged on a WhatsApp group at the height of the fraud showing the gang mocking the “naivety of the DWP”.

 

It might be fair to say that the DWP have had a massive rocket fired up their **** and told to get a grip of fraud.

[James9999]

22 minutes ago, jori123 said:

• "OAP (Old Age Pension) is non-sanctionable, meaning other benefits may be adjusted. 'Maybe catch word'

• "There is no penalty for an unfrozen pension in Thailand."

On phone at times ,bit difficult

 

  The DWP categorizes the OAP pension into one of four disqualified classes, where no direct sanctions can be applied. However, adjustments to other benefits may be possible, though it is challenging to determine how this could be done. The maximum period the DWP can investigate any wrongful claims is six years.

There were cases a few years back where the DWP were threatening relatives of a deceased person who had been paid the wrong benefits. It was stated at the time that the DWP had no right to recover money from anybody other than the claimant but they could recover from the deceased person's estate, if there was one. That is one way they could get their money assuming the person doesn't die after 6 years.

[James9999]

12 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c844g4kpjxdo

 

The claimants had never set foot in the UK, and it was a Bulgarian Policeman, who started asking questions as to where all the money was coming from, that the fraud came to light.

 

It might be fair to say that the DWP have had a massive rocket fired up their **** and told to get a grip of fraud.

The mind boggles that the DWP can pay out a mere £50 million to a group that had never set foot in the country. And yet they think they can catch out the odd pensioner for falsely claiming the annual pension increase. The phrase not fit to run a whelk stall comes to mind. Well if they say then can catch out these pensioners then good luck. Given their previous ineptitude I don't think pensions in Thailand have much to worry about.

[jori123]

4 minutes ago, James9999 said:

The mind boggles that the DWP can pay out a mere £50 million to a group that had never set foot in the country. And yet they think they can catch out the odd pensioner for falsely claiming the annual pension increase. The phrase not fit to run a whelk stall comes to mind. Well if they say then can catch out these pensioners then good luck. Given their previous ineptitude I don't think pensions in Thailand have much to worry about.

Agree,dwp regulations state so. Got to be off your rocker to dispute it....but then there is someone 

 

[Baht Simpson]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

Well, I'm not sure how they could do what you say in your first paragraph, and I'm not sure I believe it. You mean for instance reduce your housing benefit because they say you were overpaid state pension due to fraud?

 

And I thought not sanctionable meant you couldn't be fined or penalised in any way?

 

Way out of my ken.

Well, that's how I read it on the Gov. website. How they achieve this I don't know.

 

"If you’ve committed or attempted fraud, one or more of the following may also happen:

 

you’ll be told to pay back the overpaid money

 

you may be taken to court or asked to pay a penalty (between £350 and £5,000)

 

your benefits may be reduced or stopped

 

Your benefits can be reduced or stopped for up to 3 years if you’re convicted of benefit fraud. The amount of time they’re stopped for depends on how many times you’ve committed fraud.

 

Only certain benefits can be reduced or stopped. These are called ‘sanctionable benefits’. But if you commit fraud on a benefit that cannot be reduced or stopped, your other benefits can be reduced instead."

 

Seems clear. If the fraud is obvious they will take action, but they can't take the money you may need to live on. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 02:17 PM by Baht Simpson

[jori123]

58 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

Well, that's how I read it on the Gov. website. How they achieve this I don't know.

 

"If you’ve committed or attempted fraud, one or more of the following may also happen:

 

you’ll be told to pay back the overpaid money

 

you may be taken to court or asked to pay a penalty (between £350 and £5,000)

 

your benefits may be reduced or stopped

 

Your benefits can be reduced or stopped for up to 3 years if you’re convicted of benefit fraud. The amount of time they’re stopped for depends on how many times you’ve committed fraud.

 

Only certain benefits can be reduced or stopped. These are called ‘sanctionable benefits’. But if you commit fraud on a benefit that cannot be reduced or stopped, your other benefits can be reduced instead."

 

Seems clear. If the fraud is obvious they will take action, but they can't take the money you may need to live on. 

 

 

have dwp ever punished unfrozen pensioner caught?
Copilot
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has not explicitly “punished” unfrozen pensioners caught living in frozen countries. However, the policy of frozen state pensions has been a contentious issue for many British pensioners living abroad.....and   

 

 

a OAP lives permanently in frozen country and receives unfrozen pension   is that fraud?
Copilot
If an OAP (Old Age Pensioner) resides permanently in a frozen country and receives an unfrozen pension, it is not fraudulent. No action taken Let me explain:
 

Edited Tuesday at 03:14 PM by jori123

[James9999]

2 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

but they can't take the money you may need to live on. 

 

 

What pensioners don't need the state pension to live on?

[jori123]

13 hours ago, transam said:

I, for one, don't care if anyone is on the pension fraud thingy, I looking out for others with info is my aim.

YOU, haven't watched any of the vids, but good lucky opening your new, must have, stand alone, DWP bank account in the UK to RECEIVE your pension...........😱

 

 

12 hours ago, transam said:

So you haven't watched the very informative videos to point out what is going to happen for folk to receive their UK state pension............🙄

Let me try and explain it as simply as I can...

 

As I understand it........

ALL UK state pensions will only be paid into a DWP website account to recipients, no other way. 

So, you will have to set up an account with them, if you don't, no payment.

 

The videos explain what is going to happen to stop those on the fiddle (living in a country with no reciprocal agreement) is included, hence the Designated DWP account, which they can monitor.

 

Let's be honest, it is a common sense move to catch pension benefit fraudsters..

 

 Good luck, I think. However, there appears to be no connection between what you state and the reality of catching pension benefit fraudsters.   ps where are you?