Specific EV Questions

[Yodarapper]

So, for EV owners out there - some last minute specific questions:

1. Do they need to install a second line for the wall charger at home? I rent my house and landlord has asked this?

2. What happens if you move out? Does the wall charger stay or can you take it with you? 
3. Any thing I need to know if I am about to pull the trigger on an EV? 
4. Can one live with the slow charger until the wall charger is installed?

 

questions about wall charger are from my landlord - friend of my got his to agree no problem so not sure but wanted to check.

thinking of getting the atto3 - been told I can book for a fee and then in January I can pay the down payment and do financing etc. anything I need to be aware of?

 

reason for this is I am going to Europe for Xmas and won’t be back until January.

[JBChiangRai]

My advice is to have a 32 amp socket fitted where you want the wall charger and have the wall charger fitted with a 32 amp plug, you can then unplug it and take it with you when you move house. We have done this in our 2 houses.

 

You need to check your meter, if it says 30/90 or 30/100 you won’t necessarily need a second line, if it’s 15/45 you will unless you have your own electrician install the 32 amp plug and socket I referred to above. If your meter says 5/15 you will definitely need a second line.

 

You can operate with the supplied (granny) charger until you have a wall charger installed.

[Yodarapper]

Thanks for this. I’m going to get the guy form the dealership or their electrician to come and look. They said the wall charger starts from 25k - think I’ll get that one if landlord approves.

 

good to know can do with the granny charger for a while.

[mikebike]

Personally have never used my home fast charger. Granny charging overnight works for us.

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Personally have never used my home fast charger. Granny charging overnight works for us.

 

My neighbour has the middle Seal, he only uses his granny charger too.

[UWEB]

33 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

Thanks for this. I’m going to get the guy form the dealership or their electrician to come and look. They said the wall charger starts from 25k - think I’ll get that one if landlord approves.

 

good to know can do with the granny charger for a while.

It's depends on how much you are driving, I couldn't make it with the granny charger as I was 600-700 km a week on the Road so from time to time I had to use a public DC Charger. That came to an end when I finally have got my Wall Charger installed.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

So, for EV owners out there - some last minute specific questions:

1. Do they need to install a second line for the wall charger at home? I rent my house and landlord has asked this?

 

No / Maybe - It depends on the existing supply.

Thus: For 'most' supplies - the EV Car Charger taps into the mains Junction Box which is usually inside your house somewhere - then a line will need to be run from that to the outside area of your house where the car is parked (depending on the design of the house, this can be an external or internal / hidden routing).

A further 'circuit breaker' will be installed outside the house (for the charger only) and from that the EV Car Charger will be installed. 

 

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

2. What happens if you move out? Does the wall charger stay or can you take it with you? 

 

I'm sure thats up to and depends upon how the charger is installed. 

If  internally routed, it could cause some damage if removed that you'd need to repair.

If externally routed, you could theoretically remove it and take it with you (so long as no damage is left and all mounting fixings etc are repaired / filled / painted).

 

 

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

3. Any thing I need to know if I am about to pull the trigger on an EV? 

 

The Car manufacturer will send out a 'Charger installation team' to survey your house, check the electricity supply meets the requirement (usually 15 - 45 Amps) 

 

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

4. Can one live with the slow charger until the wall charger is installed?

 

Yes, there is only a need for a Type 2 standard (slow) charger and you can part your car over-night and charge it. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

questions about wall charger are from my landlord - friend of my got his to agree no problem so not sure but wanted to check.

 

As more people 'adopt' to EV's its in a landlords interest to allow installation of an EV Charger. 

As a landlord I would only agree if the installation is professional, comes with a sold fire insurance (from the manufacturer) and is permanent (not to be removed at the end of a lease potentially leaving a mess)

 

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

thinking of getting the atto3 - been told I can book for a fee and then in January I can pay the down payment and do financing etc. anything I need to be aware of?

 

Ensure the deposit is fully refundable if finance is rejected. 

We financed our last car, no issues, paid it all off.

Then went to get finance on a new car (due to low interest it made sense) and the finance was rejected. 

We approached the previous bank who'd financed the previous car who gave us a higher rate, so we rejected that and I just pulled some money out of investments and bought the car outright (which actually cost me more money as in that time investments increased !!!)

 

 

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

reason for this is I am going to Europe for Xmas and won’t be back until January.

 

Makes sense - get everything out the way so you are ready to 'pick up the car after Christmas'... But before you pull the trigger finally - ensure the EV Charger installation company do a installation inspection and that is agreed with your landlord. 

 

[richard_smith237]

36 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

My neighbour has the middle Seal, he only uses his granny charger too.

 

We have an 88kwH EV (long Range - 620km - which in the real world is closer to 500km) for our regularly daily use, we only need to charge the car every 3 days or so... 

 

Travelling out of town was convenient enough with the EV - the EV thread has a lot of good info on it and there are lots of CCS2 fast chargers (than can charge your care from 30-80% in about 20-30mins - which is fine while having a bite to eat at a service station).

 

While in Bangkok, we've only ever had to use the home charger.

 

Our Diesel usage before was about 4000-5000 baht per month.

Our EV usage is about 1500-2000 baht extra on the electricity bill (rough guess).

 

 

[richard_smith237]

46 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Personally have never used my home fast charger. Granny charging overnight works for us.

 

I had to look up these terms: 

 

EV Granny charger - this is the regular household plug with an adapter to charge the EV.

I was told only to use this in an emergency as the current is fairly high.

Househole Plug to Type 2: Single Phase: 2-3.4 kW

 

 

Home Fast Charger (is) the installed Juice Box / Dedicated EV Car Charger installed.

Type 2 : Single phase: 7 KW output / Three Phase 22 kW output)

 

 

Fast Charger (at Petrol Stations / Shopping Malls) 

CCS2: DC usually 22kW and up  - though not most cars can't take more than 150 kW input.

 

[mikebike]

39 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I was told only to use this in an emergency

Never heard this. In fact, the opposite. Slow charging is generally considered better for an EV battery compared to fast charging, as it puts less stress on the battery and can help extend its lifespan by minimizing heat generation during the charging process.

[JBChiangRai]

This is the wall mounted 32 amp socket and cable mounted 32 amp plug enabling you to take your wall charger with you.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

40 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Never heard this. In fact, the opposite. Slow charging is generally considered better for an EV battery compared to fast charging, as it puts less stress on the battery and can help extend its lifespan by minimizing heat generation during the charging process.

 

This is just what we were told - it made sense at the time.

 

The dedicated 'juicebox' EV Car Charger was free installation and thats what we use at home.

 

The 'Granny Charger which plugs into a standard 220v socket was also provided - we were advised only to use it when necessary as they do not have 'load balancing'  - hence the advice that we 'should' only use them as a 'back-up' use or in an emergency etc...  (we've never needed to use ours anyway).

 

 

Regarding the speed of charging etc - Battery tech has already evolved from that.

 

 

Regarding your comment on 'slow charging' you may have your wires crossed (no pun intended) between 'granny-charger' and the home Mounted dedicated Type  EV Charger.

 

The Home Mounted Type 2 Dedicated EV Charger is whats considered the 'slow charger' and will take approximately 6 hours to take our car from 20-80% charge....(for most cars)

 

The 'Granny charger'  is something different - to be used when no other alternatives are available. 

 

[richard_smith237]

@mikebike I can't explain it so clearly - but here is the AI answer...

 

The best charging option for an electric vehicle (EV) with an LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery depends on your needs, the convenience of installation, and charging speed. Here's a breakdown of the three options:

1. CCS2 (Combined Charging System Type 2)

• Best for: Rapid charging on the go.
• Charging Speed: Supports DC fast charging, often capable of charging an LFP battery from 10% to 80% in around 30 minutes to an hour, depending on the charger and battery capacity.
• Advantages: Ideal for long-distance travel or quick top-ups. Many public charging networks use CCS2 connectors.
• Considerations: Requires access to fast-charging stations. Can be more expensive per kWh than home charging.

2. Type 2 Home Charger

• Best for: Daily use and regular overnight charging.
• Charging Speed: Typically provides AC charging at 7.4 kW (single-phase) or 22 kW (three-phase), depending on the setup.
  • A 7.4 kW home charger can add around 30-40 miles of range per hour.
  • Ideal for fully charging an LFP battery overnight (6-8 hours for a typical EV).
• Advantages: Convenient for routine charging, cost-effective compared to public charging, and supports optimal battery health for LFP chemistry, which prefers slower, steady charging.
• Considerations: Requires installation of a home wallbox charger, which incurs upfront costs.

3. Granny Charger (Standard 3-Pin Plug)

• Best for: Occasional use or emergencies.
• Charging Speed: Very slow (2-3 kW), typically taking 24+ hours to fully charge an EV battery.
• Advantages: Requires no special installation and can be used almost anywhere with a standard electrical socket.
• Considerations: Not ideal for regular use due to prolonged charging times and potential wear on household sockets. Less efficient than dedicated EV chargers.

---

Recommendation

For an LFP battery:

• Primary Choice: Type 2 Home Charger is the most practical, cost-effective, and battery-friendly option for regular use, especially for overnight charging.
• Secondary Choice: Use CCS2 for fast charging during road trips or when quick top-ups are necessary.
• Emergency Backup: A Granny Charger is useful as a last resort but not recommended for routine charging.

LFP batteries perform well with slower, consistent charging, making the Type 2 charger the best balance of convenience and battery health.

[mikebike]

So... depends on the era of your battery 😳 dunno, but 1 yr in my battery still has 98% efficiency.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

So... depends on the era of your battery 😳 dunno, but 1 yr in my battery still has 98% efficiency.

A recent report from someone with a Tesla & 200k Km… battery was still functional to 80 % which is inpressy…

(although it’s difficult to believe anything on social media) 

 

Also - reports suggest keeping LFP fully charged as often as possible prolongs life rather than the former understanding of batteries to to run them through a full charge cycle. 

[mikebike]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A recent report from someone with a Tesla & 200k Km… battery was still functional to 80 % which is inpressy…

(although it’s difficult to believe anything on social media) 

 

Also - reports suggest keeping LFP fully charged as often as possible prolongs life rather than the former understanding of batteries to to run them through a full charge cycle. 

I don't own a Tesla for god's sake 😅

[mikebike]

Each battery/manufacturer has its own peccadilloes. It's not a contiguous playing field  

[Yodarapper]

So, for a newbie….what is what they call a portable charger?

 

is that not recommended? Might have to use it until the wall charger is installed or if I can’t install it.

 

booking fee has been confirmed to be returned in full if finance not accepted.

 

they didn’t want to send someone to check house for installation instead asked for my landlords phone but insisted and they are going to see options. 
 

thanks

[motdaeng]

7 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

So, for a newbie….what is what they call a portable charger?

 

is that not recommended? Might have to use it until the wall charger is installed ....

 

why not use a nearby public charging station (ac or dc) until you get your own wall charger?  

 

by the way, i think there are quite a few bev owners who don't have their own wall chargers, and it seems to work for them just fine ... 

[Yodarapper]

The cheapest wall charger is zhida model, 25k.

cant seem to answer questions about if a second line would be needed…landlord has specifically asked if a new line will need to be installed and what needs to be prepared

[UWEB]

50 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

So, for a newbie….what is what they call a portable charger?

 

is that not recommended? Might have to use it until the wall charger is installed or if I can’t install it.

 

booking fee has been confirmed to be returned in full if finance not accepted.

 

they didn’t want to send someone to check house for installation instead asked for my landlords phone but insisted and they are going to see options. 
 

thanks

The portable Charger is the Granny Charger and I don't see a problem to use it for the time till your Wall Charger is installed. But it takes awful long to get the Battery fully charged, my BYD Granny has an output of 1.7 kWh but due to charging losses you will get max 1.2 kWh into your Battery.

[Yodarapper]

Thanks, any ideas if a new line will be needed and if anything needs to be prepared?

 

also, you have the byd atto3? Is that zhida charger ok?

 

thanks

[Yodarapper]

Sent them a picture of my power meter in my house and it apparently says 60A which apparently is not enough and a new line would need to be installed.

 

they have now quoted 32,000 + 9900=41,900

 

does all this sound above board?

Cost seems to be going up from the motor show price which is good to now add an extra 42k….

 

please let me know if this sounds above board as I have no clue….

[Yodarapper]

What negative implications for my landlord would a second line being if any?

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

Thanks, any ideas if a new line will be needed and if anything needs to be prepared?

 

also, you have the byd atto3? Is that zhida charger ok?

 

thanks

The Zhida 7KW wall charger works just fine...it's what came with my 2023 Atto which I bought in the later part of 2023.  It uses an RFID card to turn it off and on.  Using at 7KW charger will add about 10% charger per hour with my Atto 60.5KW battery.   For installation you'll need single phase 100A service, 3 phase service, OR a separate single phase 45A service as the charger installers will need to put the 7KW wall charger on a 40A line with a 40A circuit breaker in the main box...they will also install a separate 40A/30ma ground fault circuit breaker close to the charger.   The charger installers that BYD has contracted may want to visit you home a week or so "after" you buy/take possession of EV as site survey to determine if they can install the charger with your current home electrical setup....and you BYD dealership will ask for some basic info just before you buy regarding the electrical capability of your residence.  That is, do you have 100A service, etc...etc...etc.

 

You'll get a portable charger (a.k.a., lovingly nicknamed a granny charger) which can be plugged into a regular 16A house socket outlet.  This granny charger will draw around 10 amps on the 220V sockets and have a charging capacity of approx 2.2KW.  It will add about 3% charger per hour.   So, if you say let it charge for 10 hours over night you can add 30% charge while you sleep...can keep the EV topped up.

 

Edit: and the charger installers are just complying with PEA/MEA electric company electrical service regulations.

 

[Pib]

13 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

Sent them a picture of my power meter in my house and it apparently says 60A which apparently is not enough and a new line would need to be installed.

 

they have now quoted 32,000 + 9900=41,900

 

does all this sound above board?

Cost seems to be going up from the motor show price which is good to now add an extra 42k….

 

please let me know if this sounds above board as I have no clue….

Yeap....sounds about right since you'll need a separate electrical meter/service run from the soi electrical lines which will be dedicated to the EV wall charger.   When you don't have at least a 100A service feeding your residence this what happens in that a separate electrical service, meter, and wire will be needed.

[Yodarapper]

Is this something that the landlord might not want or any reason?

 

Apparently the zhida not available, now it’s the autel at a more expensive price.

[Pib]

Just now, Yodarapper said:

Is this something that the landlord might not want or any reason?

 

Apparently the zhida not available, now it’s the autel at a more expensive price.

 

Well, the landlord may be concerned about what impact the high amperage circuit will have on his property such as:

- just how will the electrical lines be run, electrical conduits to be run on the inside/outside of walls/ceilings, appearance, residence modifications, etc.

- is the current electrical service in "your" name or the landlord's name?  If in the landlord's name this probably means the second meter dedicated to the EV will probably be in his name also which means he has another monthly electrical bill to consider.

- when the tenant leaves who owns the the EV dedicated circuit installed (I expect the landlord is going to insist it becomes his property with the exception of the wall charger).

 

Now if I was a landlord and knew how more and more people are switching to EVs and wall chargers are becoming an important consideration to potential renters if my current tenant wanted to pay for professional installation of a separate EV charger circuit "that would remain installed and be the landlord property (except the wall charger itself) I would welcome the installation.  

 

[UWEB]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

The Zhida 7KW wall charger works just fine...it's what came with my 2023 Atto which I bought in the later part of 2023.  It uses an RFID card to turn it off and on.  Using at 7KW charger will add about 10% charger per hour with my Atto 60.5KW battery.   For installation you'll need single phase 100A service, 3 phase service, OR a separate single phase 45A service as the charger installers will need to put the 7KW wall charger on a 40A line with a 40A circuit breaker in the main box...they will also install a separate 40A/30ma ground fault circuit breaker close to the charger.   The charger installers that BYD has contracted may want to visit you home a week or so "after" you buy/take possession of EV as site survey to determine if they can install the charger with your current home electrical setup....and you BYD dealership will ask for some basic info just before you buy regarding the electrical capability of your residence.  That is, do you have 100A service, etc...etc...etc.

 

You'll get a portable charger (a.k.a., lovingly nicknamed a granny charger) which can be plugged into a regular 16A house socket outlet.  This granny charger will draw around 10 amps on the 220V sockets and have a charging capacity of approx 2.2KW.  It will add about 3% charger per hour.   So, if you say let it charge for 10 hours over night you can add 30% charge while you sleep...can keep the EV topped up.

 

Edit: and the charger installers are just complying with PEA/MEA electric company electrical service regulations.

 

Thought you can't get a second Meter from PEA anymore, or is it just a TOU Meter as second Meter PEA will not install?

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2836771/ev-owners-upset-as-second-meter-system-scrapped

[motdaeng]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

... Using at 7KW charger will add about 10% charger per hour with my Atto 60.5KW battery.  ...

 

... This granny charger will draw around 10 amps on the 220V sockets and have a charging capacity of approx 2.2KW.  It will add about 3% charger per hour ...   So, if you say let it charge for 10 hours over night you can add 30% charge while you sleep ...

 

@Pib sorry, slightly off topic.

 

have you done a rough comparison for your own setup (atto 3 / battery type / wall charger, etc.) to see how the charging losses

in percentages compare between your granny charger and your wall box? 

 

if you don't have solar, the charging losses (which are always present when charging an ev) could really add up ...

 

thanks, motdaeng.