Progressive Leaders Join Elon Musk in Critiquing American Healthcare Costs

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Some industries are regulated. Electric utility companies, for example, are usually privately held businesses. Their rates are regulated so as to allow for a fair return on capital. Or at least that's the theory. It seems to work better in some states than it does in others. 

 

Regulate medical care in a similar fashion?  That would mean set prices for medical procedures and for drugs. Not quite a similar situation, though. And electron running through power lines is the same as every other electron, without distinction.  But medical care? How would you account for factors that are difficult to measure?  Take heart surgeons, for example.  Some are highly skilled and at the top of their profession.  Others may sometimes be on the verge of losing their license.  Should we pay both doctors the same for the same procedure? Should we pay for mediocrity, only?  You get what you pay for.  In other words, you'd end up with a medical system that's only mediocre. 

 

Given the current structure of the political system, making those kinds of changes would likely prove impossible.  The drug companies have too many lobbyists. The AMA has lots of lobbyists.  The hospitals and other care facilities have lobbyists.  And congress doesn't seem to care about  its constituents.  Only those making big campaign contributions. 

I think it safe to say the medical industry in the US is already heavily regulated, as is the insurance industry. 

 

The financials of all public companies are public knowledge. Should the margin of a healthcare provider be less than Starbucks?  

[jaywalker2]

5 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I'm a far-left liberal and a strong progressive. I wouldn't join Elon Musk on anything. 

I wouldn't call myself far left but I agree with you. This guy should be shut out of anything to do with government.

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think it safe to say the medical industry in the US is already heavily regulated, as is the insurance industry. 

 

The financials of all public companies are public knowledge. Should the margin of a healthcare provider be less than Starbucks?  

Starbucks, avoidable; healthcare, unavoidable.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Starbucks, avoidable; healthcare, unavoidable.

Not true. You can always go to the county or state hospitals, yes?

[jas007]

21 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think it safe to say the medical industry in the US is already heavily regulated, as is the insurance industry. 

 

The financials of all public companies are public knowledge. Should the margin of a healthcare provider be less than Starbucks?  

Heavily regulated?  Are you kidding?  Some aspects, are, to be sure.  Medicare, for example.  It's more or less a creature of regulation.  So much regulation that the system barely functions as intended.  And the rest of the system pays the price. 

 

As for the financials of public companies being public knowledge? So what?  That's the way it works.  Might affect the stock price, but that's a good thing, to a degree.  Perhaps such companies will learn to operate more efficiently if they know the results will show up on the bottom line and boost executive compensation.  But maybe not, if it only works to increase corporate greed and hurts the patients as a result. 

 

In any event, comparing Starbucks to medical care is a stretch.  One is. a necessity, the other, a luxury.  No one needs to go to Starbucks. 

 

[jas007]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Not true. You can always go to the county or state hospitals, yes?

Even those aren't free.  

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, jas007 said:

Even those aren't free.  

But they are not for profits, as are many of the best hospitals in the US. 

 

[stevenl]

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Not true. You can always go to the county or state hospitals, yes?

Also the country and state hospitals are part of the healthcare system.

 

You're moving the goal posts here. The issue is with the whole system, not just the for profit hospitals.

[jas007]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But they are not for profits, as are many of the best hospitals in the US. 

 

Even if they are "not for profit," their prices are still skewed by market costs across the system.  For example, if they don't pay RNs the going rate, they'll find themselves with a shortage of nurses.  If they don't fairly compensate their staff physicians, they'll find themselves with a doctor shortage.  And you can bet they don't get any charity from the drug companies.  So it all factors into their accounting. And even then, what other factors are in play?  In large part, it's a tax thing. Or rather, the tax set-up is all part of the larger game. Non profit hospitals  operate as 501(c)(3) entities under the tax code.. Donations to the hospital are tax-deductible.  In exchange, the hospitals must agree to provide certain free care services and so on.   In short, the government has attempted to regulate the system, in part, through the tax code. Unfortunately, the resulting medical care still costs plenty and more than it should.  Everybody still makes money. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Even if they are "not for profit," their prices are still skewed by market costs across the system.  For example, if they don't pay RNs the going rate, they'll find themselves with a shortage of nurses.  If they don't fairly compensate their staff physicians, they'll find themselves with a doctor shortage.  And you can bet they don't get any charity from the drug companies.  So it all factors into their accounting. And even then, what other factors are in play?  In large part, it's a tax thing. Or rather, the tax set-up is all part of the larger game. Non profit hospitals  operate as 501(c)(3) entities under the tax code.. Donations to the hospital are tax-deductible.  In exchange, the hospitals must agree to provide certain free care services and so on.   In short, the government has attempted to regulate the system, in part, through the tax code. Unfortunately, the resulting medical care still costs plenty and more than it should.  Everybody still makes money. 

 

 

What is wrong with people making money? I don't care that doctors make $250K and RNs $90K, good for them. I don't care that drug companies make money either, I'm glad they do. The saved my life three times, my wife's once and my boy's once. 

 

 

[impulse]

57 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

59 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Even those aren't free.  

But they are not for profits, as are many of the best hospitals in the US. 

 

One problem with "not for profits" is that's where the illegals and the off-the-grid-indigent go for their free care.  Which has to be recouped by overcharging the rest of us.  Another problem is the delta between the top line margins and the bottom line.  Too many straws and layers of parasites sucking their blood.  Like "charity" CEOs taking home $$10s of millions in salaries.

 

I got charged $1500 for 5 minutes with a physicians assistant when I had a toothache and just needed some pain pills to tide me over until the dentist opened the next morning.  At a non-profit ER.  The icing on that cake is that they wouldn't allow me to take the pain pill at home so I could drive safely.  She insisted that I take it right there and risk a car wreck driving home under the influence.  I declined.  They did give me a script for 3 of them.  So I had to wait for the pharmacies to open the next morning.  $1500 for nothing.  How's that for non-profit?

 

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

One problem with "not for profits" is that's where the illegals and the off-the-grid-indigent go for their free care.  Which has to be recouped by overcharging the rest of us.  Another problem is the delta between the top line margins and the bottom line.  Too many straws and layers of parasites sucking their blood.  Like "charity" CEOs taking home $$10s of millions in salaries.

 

I got charged $1500 for 5 minutes with a physicians assistant when I had a toothache and just needed some pain pills to tide me over until the dentist opened the next morning.  At a non-profit ER.  The icing on that cake is that they wouldn't allow me to take the pain pill at home so I could drive safely.  She insisted that I take it right there and risk a car wreck driving home under the influence.  I declined.  They did give me a script for 3 of them.  So I had to wait for the pharmacies to open the next morning.  $1500 for nothing.  How's that for non-profit?

 

I am not arguing that medical care in the US is inexpensive. My position is that the more the government takes it over, they lower the quality will be, and the more it will cost. 

 

 

[Luuk Chaai]

16 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

For once I agree with Musk, health care costs in the US are completely out of control, they are so overpriced and so are prescription drugs. If there's anything that Trump can do to wrestle these profits away from these Mafia organizations like the Healthcare and hospital industry in America and big Pharma that would be a huge boom for the American people. 

 

A good friend of mine got in a bad motorcycle accident some time ago. He almost lost his leg. He got his first of 11 operations at Bangkok Hospital Samui. It costs him over a million baht. They wanted to do a second procedure. They quoted him 1.4 million baht. He decided to transfer to Bangkok. He was quoted 460,000 baht for the same procedure, at a top private hospital there. The surgeon told him that he worked at a public hospital too, and could do the same operation there, for alot less money. He told him he would get him a quote.

 

In the interim, my friend called a buddy in San Diego, who is an orthopedic surgeon. Since my friend is a retired chiropractor, who knew all the terminology, and explained what he needed, and asked for the best price. His friend called him back, and quoted him $960,000, with cash discounts! The local surgeon here got back to him, and told him he could do it for 46,000 baht. He transferred, and they did all the rest of his procedures. So, 1.4 million at Bangkok Hospital, 460,000 at the other private hospital in Bangkok (I think it was Vejthani Hospital), and 46,000 at the public hospital, with an excellent surgeon. VS. 33,000,000 baht in the US. Again, no complaints from this peanut gallery.

 US family paln insurance policy was over $1300 a month ..   and you still had a deductable ....

 total freakin rip off

[EVENKEEL]

18 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I'm a far-left liberal and a strong progressive. I wouldn't join Elon Musk on anything. 

No one cares.

[illisdean]

12 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

This guy should be shut out of anything to do with government.

Maybe you prefer to have had this dip$hit, stolen valor walz, [calling Elon Musk a "dip$hit] as opposed to a genius extraordinaire named Elon who along with another genius named Vivek who are about to trim $2T from the budget saving America from potential bankruptcy. You must be harboring some intense post election butt-hurt and some hate syndrome and likely just hate America like a true biden luvin bidenite who can't bear to watch republicans while they fix bidens dumpster fires to save America. Business savy experts with off the charts IQ are EXACTLY whats America's fragile economy needs. Thats why 77M + Americans voted for Trump who ran on promoting his crack problem solving team which include Musk, Vivek, RFK Jr., and others giving him a mandate to implement a DOGE sweeping reform of gov't inefficiencies. If Team Musk - Vivek can't do it, IT CAN'T BE DONE. They have until July 2026 and are working for free. Whats the problem with Musk fixing problems, you hate problem solvers that much? There ain't much hope for people who support Harris and this pathological liar and total moron, stolen valor Walz, but as you may or may not know, all boys in MN school's can get access to free tampons now thanks to Walz. Thats government working at it's best for you. Now do Elon, Vivek and compare them to this doofus that the cackling moron chose to make a jack-a$$ of himself on their failed $1.5B campaign of joy. 

 

Tim Walz calling Elon a dip$hit. LOL

 

 

 

 

 

[illisdean]

46 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I wouldn't join Elon Musk on anything.

 

Why not....you hate/fear SUCCESS...?

Who you prefer, Biden, Harris, maybe stolen valor Tim?

 

“He dominates Wall Street: “The way finance works now is that things are valuable not based on their cash flows but on their proximity to Elon Musk,” Bloomberg columnist Matt Levine wrote in February, after Musk’s “Gamestonk!!” tweet vaulted the meme-stock craze into the stratosphere.”

 

Elon-Time Person of the Year

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

19 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I'm a far-left liberal and a strong progressive. I wouldn't join Elon Musk on anything. 

No one cares.

Oh, I care. What I mean is  Musk and Trump don't care about anyone else but themselves.

[mogandave]

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Oh, I care. What I mean is  Musk and Trump don't care about anyone else but themselves.

And you know that how? 

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

14 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Oh, I care. What I mean is  Musk and Trump don't care about anyone else but themselves.

Snd you know that how? 

I don't "know" that, but that is my opinion of them based on how they talk and act, at least from what I've seen online. I've never met and talked with either one of them, and frankly, I don't care to. 

[Nick Carter icp]

15 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I don't "know" that, but that is my opinion of them based on how they talk and act, at least from what I've seen online. I've never met and talked with either one of them, and frankly, I don't care to. 

 

   What have they said that brought you to your opinion ?

[jaywalker2]

1 hour ago, illisdean said:

Maybe you prefer to have had this dip$hit, stolen valor walz, [calling Elon Musk a "dip$hit] as opposed to a genius extraordinaire named Elon who along with another genius named Vivek who are about to trim $2T from the budget saving America from potential bankruptcy. You must be harboring some intense post election butt-hurt and some hate syndrome and likely just hate America like a true biden luvin bidenite who can't bear to watch republicans while they fix bidens dumpster fires to save America. Business savy experts with off the charts IQ are EXACTLY whats America's fragile economy needs. Thats why 77M + Americans voted for Trump who ran on promoting his crack problem solving team which include Musk, Vivek, RFK Jr., and others giving him a mandate to implement a DOGE sweeping reform of gov't inefficiencies. If Team Musk - Vivek can't do it, IT CAN'T BE DONE. They have until July 2026 and are working for free. Whats the problem with Musk fixing problems, you hate problem solvers that much? There ain't much hope for people who support Harris and this pathological liar and total moron, stolen valor Walz, but as you may or may not know, all boys in MN school's can get access to free tampons now thanks to Walz. Thats government working at it's best for you. Now do Elon, Vivek and compare them to this doofus that the cackling moron chose to make a jack-a$$ of himself on their failed $1.5B campaign of joy. 

 

Tim Walz calling Elon a dip$hit. LOL

 

 

 

 

 

I'd say it's time for you to take your meds.

[mdr224]

Elon Musk is the hero that the west needs, not necessarily the one it deserves

[henryford1958]

Healthcare is a human right, well so is housing and food. Do we give out free houses and free food? Healthcare is an expensive commodity and even wealthy countries have to ration it, otherwise you end up with a mess like the NHS in the UK where it is abused. People should be protected from life changing accidents but otherwise should contribute towards their healthcare as they do to buy a house or any other big item. They also should have to right to choose what level of healthcare they receive not have to accept what some socialist Government deems the lowest common denominator.

[ElwoodP]

Personal attack removed.

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

No one cares.

I agree. I am a Centrist Democrat, and the far left is the reason democrats have so little power now. I despise most of what they stand for. 

[spidermike007]

21 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

That is true. But people are avoiding the elephant in the room. And that is what we pay physicians, nurses, hospital admin and staff. It's too much, and it's crippling the entire social system. I'd include insurance admin and processing too. Reducing the pay of the paper shufflers is central to the reform. But so is a reduction in payments to doctors and nurses. Just because someone graduates medical school should not give them a direct pathway to living the lifestyle of a Renaissance Pope.

Pope Alexander VI comes to mind. The Borgia pope. 

[illisdean]

3 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

I'd say it's time for you to take your meds.

Most would say you need to grow a brain, maybe get a life, maybe get a clue too. 

You don't like what I say, and you have nothing intelligent to offer, then thats your problem, deal with it.

[mogandave]

56 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I agree. I am a Centrist Democrat, and the far left is the reason democrats have so little power now. I despise most of what they stand for. 

Yet you vote for them.

[mogandave]

3 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I don't "know" that, but that is my opinion of them based on how they talk and act, at least from what I've seen online. I've never met and talked with either one of them, and frankly, I don't care to. 

Yeah, I hear the left regurgitating the same unsupported nonsense constantly. Your opinion based on what someone else said. 

 

How have Trump and or Musk benefited from entering politics? 

 

Both were rich, well liked celebrities ten years ago, darlings to the left, now they’re they despised by everyone on the left. 

[BigStar]

On 12/7/2024 at 1:43 PM, WDSmart said:

I'm a far-left liberal and a strong progressive. I wouldn't join Elon Musk on anything. 

 

As you know, you're much too intelligent for that. Your IQ has now exceeded that of Jeff Bezos, too.

 

Bezos also expressed excitement about what Elon Musk is going to do at the Department of Government Efficiency.

     --Jeff Bezos: I’m ‘Super Optimistic’ About What Trump Is Going To Do For U.S.

 

We need a contest between our leftist intellectual titans here on ANF. Would seem difficult to administer, however. The likelihood of cheating would be too high.

 

I guess we'll have to content ourselves with simply counting the number of assertions of high intelligence each leftist member posts, so the winner will be whoever has most. This is how we adjudge our penis size, sexual conquests, and expertise in Thai women, bar scenes, and Thai xenophobia contests. Works beautifully. "bob smith" won most of them, however.