DTV visa extension

[Phillip9]

7 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

isn't this like a tourist visa though? they'll issue tourist visas but if they think you're in the country "too long" they won't admit you and warn you etc... I don't see any reason why this isn't like a tourist  visa where they'll decide if you've been in the country too long on said visa.

 

When was the last time we had a report here of someone denied entry with a tourist visa???  I can't ever remember reading such a report.  

[Caldera]

9 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

isn't this like a tourist visa though? they'll issue tourist visas but if they think you're in the country "too long" they won't admit you and warn you etc... I don't see any reason why this isn't like a tourist  visa where they'll decide if you've been in the country too long on said visa.

 

Yes I agree with you, that could very well happen down the line. The DTV will likely become the most abused visa, and the officialdom will react in crackdown mode as per usual. 

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, Phillip9 said:

When was the last time we had a report here of someone denied entry with a tourist visa???  I can't ever remember reading such a report.

Go back to 2017 - 2020 pre-Covid. Reports were daily of TV holders being denied entry for "not having a proper visa". Don Meuang probably out front but other airports too. These crackdowns are cyclical. They will come round again and I expect DTV holders to be questioned and denied entry at some point in the future.

[Tod Daniels]

I was out at Chaengwattana main immigration office in Bangkok last week and the week before that too. I specifically asked in Section J <- the section that does real tourist visa extensions AND the section that will do extensions on DTV's for any update on extensions for DTV's. 

They said they still don't have any official hand out listing the documentation requirements for this 180 day extension to a 180 day entry stamp from a Destination Thailand Visa. 

Now factoring in this visa was only approved to be issued July 15th, AND the earliest I know of someone getting a DTV was close to the end of July, we definitely should be comin' up on people wanting to try an extension especially seeing as at Chaengwattana you can apply for any extension when you have 45 days or less left on your current stamp.

NO ONE <- as in not even the immigration officers who will handle the extensions know what other documentation will be required aside from passport copies, visa copy, entry stamp copy, TM30 copy, TM7 application form. 

Will they ask for proof you still have 500K in the bank? Will they ask for proof you're still enrolled in what ever you signed up for to get the visa approved soft power, that you're still under medical treatment for what ever treatment you needed 5 year visa for?

These and more questions remain to be answered...

Honestly I think people who are getting close to their stamps running out should just bounce out and back to activate a new 180 day entry (as at least that is trouble free and document free) and lets see HOW this extension process plays out 

 

[NorthernRyland]

6 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

When was the last time we had a report here of someone denied entry with a tourist visa???  I can't ever remember reading such a report.  

 

I was warned to stop using them but I never actually got stopped at the airport. If you get back to back tourist visas year after year something happens right? Pretty sure people get denied entry or they get pulled aside at the airport and intimidated. 

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

Honestly I think people who are getting close to their stamps running out should just bounce out and back to activate a new 180 day entry (as at least that is trouble free and document free) and lets see HOW this extension process plays out 

how does that change anything? The IO at the port of entry is now going to get to decide if they want to grant the reentry and has been noted there has been no official statement on how to handle this. It's possible all the local IO's have never been told anything either and they're justing waiting like the rest of us.

[JoseThailand]

55 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

how does that change anything? The IO at the port of entry is now going to get to decide if they want to grant the reentry and has been noted there has been no official statement on how to handle this. It's possible all the local IO's have never been told anything either and they're justing waiting like the rest of us.

 

So many people already exited and re-entered multiple times on a DTV visa, no problems reported 

[NorthernRyland]

11 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

So many people already exited and re-entered multiple times on a DTV visa, no problems reported 

that's promising but I'll be waiting closer to the 12 months mark to feel more confident.

[Phillip9]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

Pretty sure people get denied entry or they get pulled aside at the airport and intimidated. 

 

I doubt it.  No one here has been able to site a single case of anyone with a tourist visa who has ever been denied entry.

 

It seems like just a myth you guys made up because you are jealous of the hassle free DTV.

[JoseThailand]

1 hour ago, Phillip9 said:

 

I doubt it.  No one here has been able to site a single case of anyone with a tourist visa who has ever been denied entry.

 

It seems like just a myth you guys made up because you are jealous of the hassle free DTV.

 

People with tourist visas actually get denied entry sometimes for "staying in Thailand too much". But not with a DTV visa, as it is a proper visa to stay in Thailand long time.

[Briggsy]

2 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

 

I doubt it.  No one here has been able to site a single case of anyone with a tourist visa who has ever been denied entry.

 

It seems like just a myth you guys made up because you are jealous of the hassle free DTV.

Me!

 

2019. Brand new unused METV issued in the UK. I was immediately denied entry and sent back to the UK.

 

I was one of many.

[Scouse123]

55 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Me!

 

2019. Brand new unused METV issued in the UK. I was immediately denied entry and sent back to the UK.

 

I was one of many.

 

On what grounds?

[Briggsy]

32 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

On what grounds?

 

Verbally : "Get a proper visa" (Background : I was spending over half the year in Thailand on METV's)

 

Stamped in passport : Section 2 "No appropriate means of supporting oneself" and Section 3 "Suspected of working illegally in the Kingdom". (Background : Neither allegation was even mentioned, never mind investigated.)

 

The 2 untrue allegations were counter-intuitive as to successfully obtain the visa, I had to prove both employment and considerable savings in the UK.

 

So, going back to the point of the discussion. Immigration most certainly will deny holders of valid visas entry to Thailand if they feel they have "stayed too long". One poster refused to believe that had ever happened. I guarantee it happened not only to me but to many others.

 

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

 

I doubt it.  No one here has been able to site a single case of anyone with a tourist visa who has ever been denied entry.

 

It seems like just a myth you guys made up because you are jealous of the hassle free DTV.

This is really delusional thinking. Not sure how long you've been in Thailand and paying attention to these matters but they've been slowly cracking down on tourist visa abuse over the years. I lived in Thailand 10 months out of the year for 15 years on various tourist visas and even the old non-O they used to issue without proper justification (they closed that years ago) so I know this first hand.

 

I'm married now and not interested in the DTV but I'm just saying immigration hasn't had a change of heart. The DTV is for the same people who were living in Thailand on tourist visas just last year and the department that issued is doesn't have the power to change immigration policy so radically.

 

Good luck just my 2 cents.

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

People with tourist visas actually get denied entry sometimes for "staying in Thailand too much". But not with a DTV visa, as it is a proper visa to stay in Thailand long time.

You're just assuming because they issued a visa with a 5 year expiration date and multiple entires that they will let you re enter without scrutiny.

 

Correct me if I wrong but there has never been a non-O or tourist visa which didn't require an annual extension. They're basically rolling out the red carpet for remote workers while keeping the rest of the retirees, married, business owners etc... on a  short lease. It makes no sense in the context of how it works here.

 

Good luck just make sure you have some backup plan if the pre-2024 Thailand reasserts itself  next year.

[Scouse123]

49 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

You're just assuming because they issued a visa with a 5 year expiration date and multiple entires that they will let you re enter without scrutiny.

 

Correct me if I wrong but there has never been a non-O or tourist visa which didn't require an annual extension. They're basically rolling out the red carpet for remote workers while keeping the rest of the retirees, married, business owners etc... on a  short lease. It makes no sense in the context of how it works here.

 

Good luck just make sure you have some backup plan if the pre-2024 Thailand reasserts itself  next year.

 

You have opened my eyes a bit to ways immigration could view the DTV if they decide to become negative towards it.

 

I am still on Non-0 extensions.

 

Time will tell.

 

On a footnote, the reason I could see it happening is that it is already getting abused right now, with people getting them for dental appointments and 2 week cookery classes.

[Scouse123]

Am I correct that on first entering Thailand with the piece of A4 and the DTV visa received online, it is then substituted and changed to a full DTV stamp in the passport??

[Briggsy]

31 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Am I correct that on first entering Thailand with the piece of A4 and the DTV visa received online, it is then substituted and changed to a full DTV stamp in the passport??

No, the visa remains on the A4 and never gets entered into the passport. The only thing that goes into the passport is a small entry stamp along with a hand-written date 180 days in the future. (I don't think my IO had a 180-day stamp! 😀)

[Caldera]

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

On a footnote, the reason I could see it happening is that it is already getting abused right now, with people getting them for dental appointments and 2 week cookery classes.

 

I think with regards to abuse, the real trouble will start when the first DTV holders will get caught begging, stealing and working illegally (I mean locally, not remotely which can be allowed).

 

What you've mentioned isn't really abuse, it's just taking advantage of a lax interpretation of the rules by certain embassies. What that could trigger, however, is that immigration might feel encouraged to check if the reasons for which the visa was granted still persist when the holder wants to extend their stay etc. So it might be necessary to keep booking more cooking classes or dental appointments...

[Briggsy]

9 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I think with regards to abuse, the real trouble will start when the first DTV holders will get caught begging, stealing and working illegally (I mean locally, not remotely which can be allowed).

 

This theory comes up again and again. However I don't really buy into it. For example the recent story of the Brit stealing gold chains on Walking Street in Pattaya revealed he entered Thailand on a "60-day visa". I think we can assume that is visa exempt. I don't think that will have any effect on visa exempt entries.

 

I suspect financial gain is a far bigger driver. Typically senior police officers (Immigration are a branch of the police) have to make payment for promotion even when they have demonstrated they have the ability, may have to keep making monthly payments to their patrons and will definitely have lifestyles that cannot be funded from their salaries. A few will hail from wealthy families with their own businesses. The rest need extra income or the whole system breaks down. The decision to deny entry at certain points of entry is made at high but local ranks. This is while other entry points do not deny entry. What are the drivers behind this local decision-making?

 

I do not believe a few unrepresentative tales of DTV-holding foreigners working illegally drive such major policy change, it is a myth. You only have to read the news every day or talk to foreigners here to come across illegal working. These people are on a wide range of visas. What drives change is usually much more tangible. One thing for sure is that there has never been any public comment from Immigration on the difference in policy between the different points of entry. So we will probably never know what is truly driving it.

[Chalky0w]

42 minutes ago, Caldera said:

 

I think with regards to abuse, the real trouble will start when the first DTV holders will get caught begging, stealing and working illegally (I mean locally, not remotely which can be allowed).

 

What you've mentioned isn't really abuse, it's just taking advantage of a lax interpretation of the rules by certain embassies. What that could trigger, however, is that immigration might feel encouraged to check if the reasons for which the visa was granted still persist when the holder wants to extend their stay etc. So it might be necessary to keep booking more cooking classes or dental appointments...

 

Agree.
 

I’m on a DTV and it feels far too easy!

I would expect 500k in bank and then either:

- 5 year visa for remote working with proof of minimum income

Or

- 1 year visa for soft power with no proof of income

 

I’ve said on a few threads that 500k wouldn’t last very long if you don’t have an income (e.g. gap year student, made redundant, etc.).  If you come with no income and only 500k in bank but decide you want to stay longer than originally planned, this is where people will be tempted to try stealing, begging, selling drugs, scamming, working illegally, etc.

 

End result will be to give everyone on a DTV a bad reputation.

 

 

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, Chalky0w said:

I’m on a DTV and it feels far too easy!

Assume you have "soft power" DTV.

Can you outlined details 

[Chalky0w]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Assume you have "soft power" DTV.

Can you outlined details 

No, I’m a “remote worker” but don’t want to get caught in a crack down on soft power.

 

Shared my experience in previous thread but in brief:

- Own a UK business

- Applied in UK

- Provided statement from UK cash savings account 

- Provided utility bill from my UK property

- Provided letter that:

          - Showed companies house record demonstrating I’m sole director

          - Showed client list (UK, US, Chinese, Canadian, French… clients)

          - Showed profit / loss for last financial year

 

Had additional evidence available if required but wasn’t.

 

I don’t actually work much in Thailand except to answer a few emails but lucky enough that working for 3 months in UK can more than pay for a 9 month stay in Thailand plus side trips.

[Tod Daniels]

21 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

how does that change anything? The IO at the port of entry is now going to get to decide if they want to grant the reentry

I think you got your wires crossed 😮 

I know someone who got one of the first DTV's issued (just after they started handing them out) and he's been in and out of the country over a dozen times on it since his first entry.. Each entry got him a new 180 day entry stamp and he wasn't asked anything by the officer at passport control. 

Just bounce out/back to activate a new entry on the visa

[JoseThailand]

2 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

I think you got your wires crossed 😮 

I know someone who got one of the first DTV's issued (just after they started handing them out) and he's been in and out of the country over a dozen times on it since his first entry.. Each entry got him a new 180 day entry stamp and he wasn't asked anything by the officer at passport control. 

Just bounce out/back to activate a new entry on the visa

 

Exactly! The DTV visa is the kind of proper visa we all "permanent tourists" have been waiting for.

[Rob Browder]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:32 PM, NorthernRyland said:

The people that created the visa may have been interested in juicing tourist numbers during high season but never actually coordinated with immigration (the ultimate authority on who enters or not)  and agreed on letting all these people in for the entire 5 year term  of the visa.

Immigration's job is to honor valid visas - stamping-in the proper "permitted stay," absent a legal-reason to deny entry.  This visa is expressly-created for people to stay in Thailand long-term.  That said - yes - immigration sometimes do not do this, following their own agenda.

 

On 12/15/2024 at 8:35 PM, NorthernRyland said:

The reason I'm commenting on this is because I've seen many YouTube videos promoting this new visa and it could potentially seriously ruin peoples life if it goes the way I think it will.
... what's the catch?

As long as they are prepared to use non-corrupt entry points or pay whatever agent-bribe per-entry (possibly "the catch" to come), it won't ruin their lives.  If I were using it, I would set-aside 10K Baht/year for "agent re-entry fees" as a safeguard - approximately one-months' aircon-room-and-board here, for a single person.  If it isn't needed later - great!

 

It's a 5-year visa - not guaranteed to be available later, so it would be foolish to "count on it" beyond the initial 5 years.  That said, there have always been other options; they just cost more in agent-fees.  

 

Under-50s have nothing to lose by using the DTV.  It's easier than the ongoing ED-Agent method, which continues to facilitate the same "abuse" which the "crackdown" was purported to stop - only increasing the agent-fees immigration collects. 

 

Regardless of which visa/extension, the key is for expats to understand how immigration really works - not the fantasy-version of "just follow the rules, and you will be OK."  I had to learn this the hard way with experience with marriage-extensions (and the marriage-process, itself). 

[Rob Browder]

19 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

On a footnote, the reason I could see it happening is that it is already getting abused right now, with people getting them for dental appointments and 2 week cookery classes.

That's not "abuse."  The purpose is to bring in longer-staying people, who have at least 500K savings, which weeds-out poor people, who have close-to-zero savings.

 

17 hours ago, Caldera said:

the real trouble will start when the first DTV holders will get caught begging, stealing and working illegally

Anyone caught begging, stealing, working-illegally, etc should be deported and banned for-cause. The type of visa they used to enter is irrelevant.  

 

The 500K funds step reduces the likelihood of that sort of behavior, vs tourist-type entries. Some will undoubtedly financially-wreck themselves with the Thai version of "The stripper really likes me" delusion, and similar - the same as do some retirees, tourists, etc.

[Rob Browder]

On 12/15/2024 at 10:39 PM, ericthai said:

you're friends got screwed from crack downs?  What crack downs?

Yes - Thai's jobs lost / businesses closed when immigration blocked their repeat-customers from staying here with "crackdowns" against "coming too often" / "staying too long" - which isn't even a legal-reason to deny-entry..  

[Maestro]

On 12/15/2024 at 9:33 PM, Caldera said:

 

It was the Minister of the Interior himself who countersigned the cabinet resolution that created the DTV, so the provision for an extension was definitely made with involvement of his ministry.

 

A new Police Order for extensions of stay is needed, if it has not already been done.

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

This visa is expressly-created for people to stay in Thailand long-term.

I think this is debatable. It's like how you see them build roads here and then rip them up to install utilities. The departments don't communicate and then have conflicts later when they have to interact out of necessity.

 

Maybe this time it's slips through though and they have no choice but to honor it? I don't know how it will play out but unless everyone agreed it's time to end the annual extensions there's going to be some conflicts eventually.

 

This begs the question, why have the 5 year elite visa? Why make retirees, married people and business do annual extensions anymore?