Update to my Rant earlier today

[orchidfan]

Earlier today I detailed our experience yesterday at P Thani IMM office trying ti do a Marriage extension for about the 15th time.

 

So, update: , late his afternoon (FRIDAY) we get ANOTHER can from PT IMM Office saying that they received the email and attached Docs regarding my wife's 25 year ago divorce to a Thai man ,

BUT now require the Ampur Document showing her change to  family name back from the recorded married name (to Thai man 25+years ago) ..

 

This has been recorded (Her revision back to her birth family name) in the form of her Thai Passport, Our Marriage certificate, her Thai ID card, Chanote title when the land was purchased on which our house of 16 years has stood, etc, etc......................no to forget the past 15 odd marriage extensions that have been successfully done at this same office !!!

 

How could we have got married and her, a new passport and Thai ID card for all these years without her divorce and change of family name having been recorded in Official documents ???

 

My wife again asked WHY is this now required after so many years of marriage and renewals?

Answer - "It's a new Law".....really ?? what Law?n

 

Perhaps @DrJack or others might like to comment?

 

Of course in this case she CAN'T find the requested piece of paper and so she will have o go to a local Ampur office (Monday??) and get a new printout to email to them.

 

What a total and unnecessary pain in the butt this all is!!

 

At 74 I don't need this crap, and no, I cannot change over to Retirement visa

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: the Head Lady IO, who we had gotten to know over the years, sadly died of cancer a year or so ago.

So a NEW Order takes over !!

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, orchidfan said:

At 74 I don't need this crap, and no, I cannot change over to Retirement visa

You have had a bad time with extension based on marriage

 

At 74 I'm surprised you rule out extensions retirement using agent.

I'm bit behind you age wise however will certainly use agent in latter years.

Currently I'm using extensions based on retirement funds in bank method. 

Have you considered extensions done by yourself based on retirement using income method.

Don't understand you state cannot change to extension based on retirement.

That must be a financial constraint.

Use an agent. 

[DrJack54]

Negative post removed 

[Lite Beer]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

 

Use an agent. 

Maybe he wants to do it the legal way.

[Moonlover]

15 hours ago, orchidfan said:

Earlier today I detailed our experience yesterday at P Thani IMM office trying ti do a Marriage extension for about the 15th time.

 

So, update: , late his afternoon (FRIDAY) we get ANOTHER can from PT IMM Office saying that they received the email and attached Docs regarding my wife's 25 year ago divorce to a Thai man ,

BUT now require the Ampur Document showing her change to  family name back from the recorded married name (to Thai man 25+years ago) ..

 

This has been recorded (Her revision back to her birth family name) in the form of her Thai Passport, Our Marriage certificate, her Thai ID card, Chanote title when the land was purchased on which our house of 16 years has stood, etc, etc......................no to forget the past 15 odd marriage extensions that have been successfully done at this same office !!!

 

How could we have got married and her, a new passport and Thai ID card for all these years without her divorce and change of family name having been recorded in Official documents ???

 

My wife again asked WHY is this now required after so many years of marriage and renewals?

Answer - "It's a new Law".....really ?? what Law?n

 

Perhaps @DrJack or others might like to comment?

 

Of course in this case she CAN'T find the requested piece of paper and so she will have o go to a local Ampur office (Monday??) and get a new printout to email to them.

 

What a total and unnecessary pain in the butt this all is!!

 

At 74 I don't need this crap, and no, I cannot change over to Retirement visa

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: the Head Lady IO, who we had gotten to know over the years, sadly died of cancer a year or so ago.

So a NEW Order takes over !!

My wife was asked to provide a copy of her divorce certificate in Aug last year, following 8 renewals of my extensions. She had kept it (fortunately) and I e-mailed a copy to the office the same day and that was the end of the matter.

 

I do know that she had her surname switched back to her family name prior to our marriage 10 years ago. Her lawyer/cousin assured her that it was necessary.

 

The matter was not mentioned again this year when I did my renewal.

 

[richard_smith237]

13 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

Maybe he wants to do it the legal way.

 

I don't think there is anything illegal about using an agent. 

They just cut the queueing and through relationships with the Immigration officers some of the unnecessary imaginary rules are not worried about. 

 

By that I mean...  its very often in Thai bureaucratic circles for officials to 'learn from their peers' this leads to both legacy and imaginary requirements' as info is passed on from colleague to colleague...    This is the primary reason why from region to region, amphur to amphur, office to office and even individual officer to officer the requirement appear so variable - everyone has their own interpretation of requirements or are following what they have been taught by a peer. 

Agents can circumnavigate this as they are known to know the requirements and can communicate this to the immigration officer (i.e. Document x is not required for this process, its only require for x processing etc).

 

I've never used an agent, but understand how they can be useful to some. Some might not a agree with the comment above, but I know senior immigration officers who misunderstand their own regulations.

[TaoNow]

@richard_smith

 

Lite Beer was referring to the type of agent who arranges a retirement extension for ex-pats who don't have the 800K baht in a Thai bank or want to avoid that requirement.

 

There is no ambiuity about this requirement, and every Immo office has to follow the terms of the extension -- unless they are bent, and accept a bribe from the agent to sign off on the extension, despite lack of proof of financials.

[orchidfan]

I appreciate the various comments...thanks.

 

Yes, I suppose I could change over to a Retirement Visa and extensions using an agent....but, to begin with I don't know any!

And yes DrJack54, there are financial constraints for the other alternatives.

 

It is the only time that i/we have been messed around like this, but at the end of the day,it is just an annoying (and unnecessary ) inconvenience this time.

 

Perhaps they ARE trying to get more people to take the Retirement / Agent route as the Marriage route yields them nothing, except the receipteds 1900 baht.

 

At least they dropped the stupid home visit this year....although I still had to include the hand drawn map of how to find our house (same photocopied map every year).

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

And yes DrJack54, there are financial constraints for the other alternatives.

Even using "income method" 

That requirement is 12 monthly transfers of min 65k

[G_Money]

39 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Even using "income method" 

That requirement is 12 monthly transfers of min 65k

Actually 15 months now.  As of last month I was required to provide 15 months.  No problem in my case.

 

Whether or not this new requirement is necessary at all Immigration offices is unclear.

 

Jomtien requested it this year.

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Actually 15 months now.  As of last month I was required to provide 15 months.  No problem in my case.

No idea why that would be required however I tend to ignore Jomitien requirements. 

[MangoKorat]

On 12/14/2024 at 4:52 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I don't think there is anything illegal about using an agent. 

Surely there is if the agent 'provides' the money in the bank?

 

You are supposed to have the money in the bank and an agent arranging that when you don't in fact actually have it must be fraudulent. If the proverbial ever hit the fan, I think you would have a hard time proving you weren't complicit in that fraud.

 

For the Thai's involved, the punishment would probably be, in the case of Immigration Officers, being moved to a different office.  The agent might get a little jail time but could probably 'find' a way out of that.  For the applicant, deportation and a ban must be a significant risk.

 

I know many do it but I've got far to much tied up in Thailand to risk being deported.

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Even using "income method" 

That requirement is 12 monthly transfers of min 65k

Can I just ask - how does one use the income method for their first application when there clearly won't be 12 months worth of transfers?

 

I don't think its any different but I'm thinking about an extension based on marriage with the 40k per month income requirement. Is there some form of bypass of the 12 months requirement for the first application?

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I don't think its any different but I'm thinking about an extension based on marriage with the 40k per month income requirement. Is there some form of bypass of the 12 months requirement for the first application?

I'm doing this currently except my extensions are based on retirement.

I discussed this with io at CW on Nov 5. 

It requires forward planning so in your example you would season the 400k for two months prior to extension application.

At the same time you would commence monthly transfers.

For you following extension you would show 12 monthly transfers.

 

For others in my situation (retirement) the io stressed that yes start the monthly transfers AND maintain the 800k in bank for 3 months after the Nov 5 granted. 

Actually I plan to apart from the monthly transfers, maintain the money in bank. 

In other words have both methods covered 

[G_Money]

52 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

No idea why that would be required however I tend to ignore Jomitien requirements. 

That was my go to office.  Hard to ignore.

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, G_Money said:

That was my go to office.  Hard to ignore.

True. We all need to be aware of requirements at the office you deal with. 

[MangoKorat]

17 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm doing this currently except my extensions are based on retirement.

I discussed this with io at CW on Nov 5. 

It requires forward planning so in your example you would season the 400k for two months prior to extension application.

At the same time you would commence monthly transfers.

For you following extension you would show 12 monthly transfers.

I thought that would be the case.

 

So in effect, there is no way to use the income method for your first application.

 

I've lost touch with the situation regarding what were, proposals for new taxation requirements for foreigners in Thailand.  There was so much fighting on threads relating to that subject, it got tiring reading them.

 

So, on the basis that the proposed new tax rules have been intorduced, I wonder what the implications of the visa requirements will be on taxation?  Obviously everyone's tax situation is specific to them but clearly if you bring in 400k (or 800k for retirement) and then a further 400k (800k) over the year in preparation for the next application - your total income for that year will be double.

[Lacessit]

40 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Surely there is if the agent 'provides' the money in the bank?

 

You are supposed to have the money in the bank and an agent arranging that when you don't in fact actually have it must be fraudulent. If the proverbial ever hit the fan, I think you would have a hard time proving you weren't complicit in that fraud.

 

For the Thai's involved, the punishment would probably be, in the case of Immigration Officers, being moved to a different office.  The agent might get a little jail time but could probably 'find' a way out of that.  For the applicant, deportation and a ban must be a significant risk.

 

I know many do it but I've got far to much tied up in Thailand to risk being deported.

I have the same concern.

 

It would be nice to be able to invest the 800K in something that returns more than 1% on my money.

 

However, there is always the risk a new broom will come in, and sweep cosy agent - IO arrangements off the board.

 

I saw this happen at Chiang Mai some years ago. I don't know how many foreigners became collateral damage, although I did know one retiree who had to move to Cambodia. He had been in CM for years, but there was no way he could meet either income or deposit requirements.

[MangoKorat]

I'm just wondering........

 

Say someone was not actually living ful time in Thailand but planned to in a year or so.  If they have a Thai bank account and start transferring 40k per month into that account (65k for retirement) a year before they actually applied for a Non O, would that be acceptable?

 

I can't see any reason why not but TIT.

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

So in effect, there is no way to use the income method for your first application.

Only those that can provide "income letter" from their embassies 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

If they have a Thai bank account and start transferring 40k per month into that account (65k for retirement) a year before they actually applied for a Non O, would that be acceptable?

That question has come up previously. 

Unfortunately the common answer is the usual: "up to your immigration office" 

I'm in the camp that believes it should be possible to forward plan and when have 12 + monthly transfers apply for non O and subsequent 12 month extension using income method. 

[MangoKorat]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Only those that can provide "income letter" from their embassies 

Oh yes, I forgot that that used to be available to many of us.  Jeez, what agro they have caused for some by refusing to supply those letters. 

 

I know its past but I remember thinking at the time - rather than just refusing to supply such letters, it have been better if the embassy involved asked for evidence of that income and specified acceptable forms of proof.

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

rather than just refusing to supply such letters, it have been better if the embassy involved asked for evidence of that income and specified acceptable forms of proof.

Initially Thai immigration wanted the embassies to do "income verification" UK, USA, AU instantly said No Way Hose. 

Thai then dropped the verification.

Response: Nup.

FWIW: I had a chat with an Oz lady working at the embassy.

I asked about this and (according to her) Oz embassy was basically providing a statuary deceleration.

Think USA use word affidavit.

Anyway she stated those can only to used for purposes inside Australia.

So the story went. 

[MangoKorat]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Initially Thai immigration wanted the embassies to do "income verification" UK, USA, AU instantly said No Way Hose. 

Thai then dropped the verification.

Response: Nup.

FWIW: I had a chat with an Oz lady working at the embassy.

I asked about this and (according to her) Oz embassy was basically providing a statuary deceleration.

Think USA use word affidavit.

Anyway she stated those can only to used for purposes inside Australia.

So the story went. 

Well, whatever.......its in the past.  It cause a real headache for a lot of people though.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Well, whatever.......its in the past.  It cause a real headache for a lot of people though.

Most offices will accept the bank statements showing 12 months of foreign transfers.

Suggested to do the transfers on consistent date and similar amount. 

 

[Rob Browder]

3 hours ago, orchidfan said:

Yes, I suppose I could change over to a Retirement Visa and extensions using an agent....but, to begin with I don't know any!

In some cases, your local-office may not have agent service, but the district-office does, and they must "approve" marriage-based applications.  They put the screws to every application which does not arrive with an agent-envelope.  

So, it may not be that your local-office is giving you a hard time for agent-money, but rather transferring the problems the district-office creates. 

[orchidfan]

On 12/15/2024 at 3:28 PM, DrJack54 said:

Initially Thai immigration wanted the embassies to do "income verification" UK, USA, AU instantly said No Way Hose. 

Thai then dropped the verification.

Response: Nup.

FWIW: I had a chat with an Oz lady working at the embassy.

I asked about this and (according to her) Oz embassy was basically providing a statuary deceleration.

Think USA use word affidavit.

Anyway she stated those can only to used for purposes inside Australia.

So the story went. 

The thing that always bugged me about this situation was that the Oz Embassy were NOT sanctioning or stating that the contents of the Stat Declaration were true and correct, but simply affirming that you/I had written it!

 

It was most certainly not an "Income Affirmation" Letter,  (as some people seem to think) but just certifying that you were the Oz citizen who had written and submitted it.

 

 But thanks for your insight into it from someone on the "inside".

 

I was also not aware (if in fact correct ) that Stat Decs are only for use in matters within Australia !!!

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

I was also not aware (if in fact correct ) that Stat Decs are only for use in matters within Australia !!!

Was just chatting with dude called Mr Google.....he stated...

 

"Consular officials can witness Australian statutory declarations overseas. We deliver this service through our embassies and consulates overseas. Note that Australian statutory declarations are for use only in Australia."

[orchidfan]

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Was just chatting with dude called Mr Google.....he stated...

 

"Consular officials can witness Australian statutory declarations overseas. We deliver this service through our embassies and consulates overseas. Note that Australian statutory declarations are for use only in Australia."

Ah, thanks. So she was correct.

Funny how they signed and stamped many of these before "discovering" this small but important criteria !!