How Has Thailand’s New Income Tax Law Affected Your Spending Habits?

[Lacessit]

It makes zero difference to me.

 

I have 5-6 years of non-taxable pre-2024 savings to transfer, before I start bringing in anything that can be classed as income.

 

Even then, it is a pension subject to a DTA.

 

I'll start worrying when Immigration starts demanding a Thai tax return as part of the retirement extension process.

[RSD1]

4 hours ago, flexomike said:

Not true, only if you go to a tax office and have them activate the number for tax purposes. There is a form that you have to fill out to get this done.

Interesting if that is true. But also, if you have interest earning bank accounts or equity investments overseas, then you often need to provide the overseas financial institution with a local TIN. Perhaps people with pink cards just provide their Thai ID numbers to overseas financial institutions in those instances. So I wonder what happens if those financial institutions eventually start sending income statements and tax documents to the TRD under all those foreigner owned Thai ID card numbers. 

[kinyara]

1 minute ago, RSD1 said:

Good and bad. Hard to generalize. Once somebody moves to Thailand full-time, they usually buy a vehicle or two, which is a large purchase and often carries large import duties. Some also buy condos. These are all large sums that go into the economy. In addition, people above the age of 50 may spend a lot more money on private healthcare in Thailand over the next 20 to 30 years. They may also leave a sizable inheritance to a younger Thai wife, which then will also get also spent within the local economy. 

 

As you say it is hard to generalise, if they have all the above are they really likely to uproot themselves and potentially family to save what in reality with personal allowances a relatively small amount of tax.

[RSD1]

5 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

I don't even think there is even a couple of hundred thousand retired expats in the country. I'm sure I read a figure of 60,000 quoted by the head honcho a few years ago. I think we generally overstate our importance.

30 years ago, I remember hearing a figure that there were over 100,000 Japanese residents living in Thailand alone. Perhaps that number has grown since then. Add to that all the new Chinese runaways and the numbers there could be large too. And this is not even counting retirees from Western countries.

[RSD1]

8 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

As you say it is hard to generalise, if they have all the above are they really likely to uproot themselves and potentially family to save what in reality with personal allowances a relatively small amount of tax.

It all depends on how big their tax liability might be. For some it could be small, but these probably aren't the bigger spenders and earners either. The ones with the larger sums, who would be paying a lot more tax are more likely to leave. If you read through all the posts on this topic, you will already see a few people who mentioned that they've already uprooted and are happy to spend their money in other countries, and not just to other cheap places like Vietnam and Cambodia. Some of them are heading back to Western countries as well. Presumably, these aren't the ones who are on small fixed incomes and who do have other options to leave. 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

This is not a NEW LAW! It has been in existence since the 1970s to my knowledge, but only this year been fully implemented.

I didn't say it was a new law. The rule on question has been reinterpreted, that reinterpretation has only existed since September 2023, not forever.

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, flexomike said:

Why would you do like that when you have been saying that you would be staying outside of Thailand so that you don't meet the 180 day threshold

Just in case

[ChumpChange]

I've seen a few of the usual suspects and their posts talking about how they're not going to apply for a TIN or file a tax return until the hammer falls where they need to supply one to the Immigration department in order to extend their long-term visas and/or they get threatened with legal or criminal action by the local authorities. 

 

What I think this brazen minority is failing to understand is that the TRD could simply take a list of long-term residents from the Immigration department and then start knocking on the doors of the ones who haven't filed a tax return for 2-3 years. 

 

The TRD and the MOFA might even instruct Immigration not to extend their long-term visas again until they clear all their back taxes, together with interest and penalties. That could get really nasty. 

 

Probably not worth tempting fate because if they smell easy money from some low-hanging fruit, then they are pretty likely to go after it. So I wouldn't want to be in those shoes a couple of years from now. Basically, it sounds to me like the ones who plan to put their head in the sand and ignore the tax filing requirements really haven't thought things through too carefully. 

 

But if you prefer to live life by the seat of your pants as you age into your golden years, then go for it.

[spidermike007]

These lLaws have not gone into effect yet they're still being proposed they're still being written we have no obligation whatsoever to pay anything until the laws are on the books. 

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

These lLaws have not gone into effect yet they're still being proposed they're still being written we have no obligation whatsoever to pay anything until the laws are on the books. 

The TRD doesn't agree with you, neither do I.

[kinyara]

45 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

30 years ago, I remember hearing a figure that there were over 100,000 Japanese residents living in Thailand alone. Perhaps that number has grown since then. Add to that all the new Chinese runaways and the numbers there could be large too. And this is not even counting retirees from Western countries.

 

I was talking about those on retirement visa status. The Japanese would certainly have been the biggest community of working foreigners back then and are probably still significant in the business community but they would already be taxpayers under income tax regulations. I seriously doubt the Japanese figure significantly in the currently retiree population affected by this tax law change 

[aldriglikvid]

Talked to a local realtor that has been making decent to good money the last years: business slowed down somewhat earlier this year and the remittance tax was said the reason by the customers; now the market has come to an halt. She tells me that 80-90% of customers enticed to buy use the remittance tax to not go ahead. 

[kinyara]

If I wasn't already retired in Thailand but dead set at making the move, if I was planning on bring in the money to purchase big ticket items like a condo and a car, that would be the year I managed my time in country to less than 180 days. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Talked to a local realtor that has been making decent to good money the last years: business slowed down somewhat earlier this year and the remittance tax was said the reason by the customers; now the market has come to an halt. She tells me that 80-90% of customers enticed to buy use the remittance tax to not go ahead. 

Not surprising but there is a fairly easy way to avoid that.

Just be sure to NOT be a Thai tax resident in the year that you bring in your funds to buy the real estate. Easiest for those initially moving to Thailand. 

[RSD1]

8 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

I was talking about those on retirement visa status. The Japanese would certainly have been the biggest community of working foreigners back then and are probably still significant in the business community but they would already be taxpayers under income tax regulations. I seriously doubt the Japanese figure significantly in the currently retiree population affected by this tax law change 

I realize you were referring to retirees and not Japanese expats working for Japanese companies in Thailand, but I had figured by now that quite a few of them had retired here too. Though it seems I was wrong and the foreign resident retiree figure you gave is nearly spot on, plus there was likely even some drop off during and after Covid. I just read the following:

 

As of 2021, approximately 52,040 foreigners were residing in Thailand on retirement visas, up from 10,709 in 2005. In 2018, Thailand issued nearly 80,000 retirement visas, marking a 30% increase from 2014, with British nationals making up a significant portion of these visas. A 2016 estimate indicated there were 68,300 foreigners over the age of 50 holding long-stay visas in Thailand, reflecting a 9% increase over the previous two years.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, john donson said:

people that say they will not live here for 6 months, so you still pay rent here and elsewhere? sounds expensive and you don't have  a job, wife, kids here, that you can be away for months?

If worldwide income taxation ever goes into effect, then 6 months elsewhere may be beneficial for some.

 

I'd be looking at minimum US$10,000 tax liability to Thailand, each and every year.  Just two years of Thai tax payments would buy a decent condo in Cambodia.

 

With the current change in interpretation, we're putting off major purchases until we know how this will be implemented next year.  Now only bringing in savings within TEDA amount, spending down Thai bank accounts, and will get a couple more years use out of the Hilux with 400k on the clock.

[RSD1]

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

I'd be looking at minimum US$10,000 tax liability to Thailand, each and every year.  Just two years of Thai tax payments would buy a decent condo in Cambodia.

You can buy a decent condo in Cambodia for $20,000? I know this is off-topic, but what does that look like?

[CallumWK]

17 hours ago, RSD1 said:

 

Anyone who has a pink card already has a Thai TIN whether they like it or not. The 13 digit ID number on the pink card is also your TIN.

 No it isn't.

 

I have yellow book and pink card for about 10 years. I got a TIN about 5 years ago. Not the same number

[NoDisplayName]

50 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 No it isn't.

 

I have yellow book and pink card for about 10 years. I got a TIN about 5 years ago. Not the same number

 

I got my TIN in Bangkok in 2017, pink ID and ol' yeller in Korat last year.  Not the same numbers.  May have something to do with where issued, or perhaps tax and ID systems have been merged, so new issues will be the same number.

 

Earlier this year, visited my local district tax office because the online system no longer recognized my TIN.  Was told my pink ID number was now my tax ID.  My TIN was cancelled.

 

Was told to use pink ID number to file tax returns.  District office had to call the main provincial office to have the pink ID number activated for the online filing system.

 

YKMV

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, RSD1 said:

You can buy a decent condo in Cambodia for $20,000? I know this is off-topic, but what does that look like?

 

Sorry, I have no links, just what I recall from looking into condos a couple years ago.

 

What is found online appears to be mostly ridiculously overpriced luxury villa condo developments aimed at foreign buyers.