Reform UK Surpasses Conservative Party Membership in Landmark Shift

[RayC]

36 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Why is it when it comes to cuts leftists assume the only cuts that can be made are to the useful public services like police, NHS etc?  You realize there are 542,840 civil servants... right?  When I say fire half of them I am talking about those work from home wastrels.  At the very height of the British empire there were 40,000 civil servants employed globally, and that was before the age of productivity tools such as computers and mobile phones. 

 

Actually, now I am reminded of the numbers firing just 50% seems way too small a number to get rid of and 80% would be more appropriate.   Think of the savings that could be made with zero impact (nobody would notice) and many less gold plated pensions to pay for.  

 

37 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Why is it when it comes to cuts leftists assume the only cuts that can be made are to the useful public services like police, NHS etc?  You realize there are 542,840 civil servants... right?  When I say fire half of them I am talking about those work from home wastrels.  At the very height of the British empire there were 40,000 civil servants employed globally, and that was before the age of productivity tools such as computers and mobile phones. 

 

Actually, now I am reminded of the numbers firing just 50% seems way too small a number to get rid of and 80% would be more appropriate.   Think of the savings that could be made with zero impact (nobody would notice) and many less gold plated pensions to pay for.  

 

"Why is it when it comes to cuts leftists assume the only cuts that can be made are to the useful public services like police, NHS etc?" 

 

Perhaps because your statement, "Cutting the public sector by 50%", doesn't differentiate between the various public sector workers. Why would anyone - left, right, fascist or communist - assume that your comment was limited to civil servants?

 

It's possible that the Civil Service is overstaffed but I doubt it would function in any real sense of the word if the numbers were reduced by 50-80%. To justify the size of cut on the basis that there were only 40,000 civil servants in the 19th century is frankly ridiculous. 

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

possible that the Civil Service is overstaffed but I doubt it would function in any real sense of the word if the numbers were reduced by 50-80%. To justify the size of cut on the basis that there were only 40,000 civil servants in the 19th century is frankly ridiculous

What if they only cut the Lords, Dames and Knights on mega wages, leaving the other 98% of civil servants intact? Cutting half the budget doesn't mean cutting half the staff!

 

Just thought, cut all the staff working from home as well, they're completely useless.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What if they only cut the Lords, Dames and Knights on mega wages, leaving the other 98% of civil servants intact?

 

Lords, Dames and Knights do not get any wages though 

[Seppius]

In 4 years Reform will be ready to govern or a strong coalition with the Tories, Labour are finished

 

They maybe are doing what they said in their manifesto, but broke so many promises they made in interviews and debates

 

Source : Perplexity

 

 

 

• Economic Justice: Labour promised to support common ownership of rail, mail, energy, and water but has not committed to repealing privatization structures in the NHS introduced by the previous government.
• Defend Migrants’ Rights: The party pledged an immigration system based on compassion but failed to abolish the NHS surcharge for all migrant workers, creating a two-tiered healthcare access policy.
• Workers’ Rights: Labour had committed to strengthening workers' rights and trade unions but has faced criticism for not delivering on these promises effectively.
• Tax Policies: Labour promised not to raise taxes on working people. However, they have implemented significant tax increases, including a £25 billion hike through National Insurance, which disproportionately affects workers.
• Support for Farmers: The party assured farmers that they would protect Agricultural Property Relief but broke this promise by reducing relief and imposing inheritance tax on farmland in the 2024 Autumn Budget.
• Winter Fuel Allowance: Labour representatives campaigned on helping pensioners with fuel bills but voted to scrap the winter fuel allowance shortly after taking office, impacting vulnerable pensioners.
• NHS Infrastructure: Labour promised to build a new Royal Berkshire Hospital but announced a review of the hospital program instead of moving forward with construction plans.
• Foreign Policy: Keir Starmer had pledged to promote peace and human rights but has been criticized for prioritizing trade agreements over human rights issues, particularly concerning Kashmir.
• WASPI Women: Labour initially promised support and compensation for the WASPI (Women Against State Pension Inequality) women affected by changes to the state pension age. However, they recently backtracked, stating that compensation would not be provided despite prior commitments made by key party leaders during their time in opposition
   

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

So, as of today, I think we can rule out any private sector growth that will have any impact. We are on a downward trajectory, a growth killing Budget was just delivered in October and the effects of that will not really impact until April.

 

Hope is not a plan, nor is any basis for assumption.

 

 

The Fully funded mantra can be kicked right into touch. It was nonsense before the budget, just as it is nonsense today.

 

Which brings us onto tax increase.

 

How long in general did Labour in general, and Starmer in particular, howl about the biggest tax burden in 70 years under the Tories ?
 

Only to increase the tax burden in October..

 

A 1st year student economist could tell you that to create growth, you need to cut taxes, not increase taxes.

 

Which is why I keep saying, that the carnage hasn't started yet, and the full effects will not be felt until the delayed tax rises take effect from April.

 

So with no growth since July. Q4 will be a negative, Q1 2025 will be flat or negative, another tax raising budget will be required in April....... And on the doomloop will continue.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0n14ywzqpo

 

Regulatory bodies are not the people to be asking for help in producing growth. But at least it shows that they possibly recognise the depth of the doo-doo, but do not know how to deal with it.

He didn’t increase the tax burden on working people, which was the manifesto promise.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, Seppius said:

In 4 years Reform will be ready to govern or a strong coalition with the Tories, Labour are finished

 

They maybe are doing what they said in their manifesto, but broke so many promises they made in interviews and debates

 

Source : Perplexity

 

 

 

• Economic Justice: Labour promised to support common ownership of rail, mail, energy, and water but has not committed to repealing privatization structures in the NHS introduced by the previous government.
• Defend Migrants’ Rights: The party pledged an immigration system based on compassion but failed to abolish the NHS surcharge for all migrant workers, creating a two-tiered healthcare access policy.
• Workers’ Rights: Labour had committed to strengthening workers' rights and trade unions but has faced criticism for not delivering on these promises effectively.
• Tax Policies: Labour promised not to raise taxes on working people. However, they have implemented significant tax increases, including a £25 billion hike through National Insurance, which disproportionately affects workers.
• Support for Farmers: The party assured farmers that they would protect Agricultural Property Relief but broke this promise by reducing relief and imposing inheritance tax on farmland in the 2024 Autumn Budget.
• Winter Fuel Allowance: Labour representatives campaigned on helping pensioners with fuel bills but voted to scrap the winter fuel allowance shortly after taking office, impacting vulnerable pensioners.
• NHS Infrastructure: Labour promised to build a new Royal Berkshire Hospital but announced a review of the hospital program instead of moving forward with construction plans.
• Foreign Policy: Keir Starmer had pledged to promote peace and human rights but has been criticized for prioritizing trade agreements over human rights issues, particularly concerning Kashmir.
• WASPI Women: Labour initially promised support and compensation for the WASPI (Women Against State Pension Inequality) women affected by changes to the state pension age. However, they recently backtracked, stating that compensation would not be provided despite prior commitments made by key party leaders during their time in opposition
   

 

They’ve not yet been in power six months and you’ve got the forum’s crystal ball out already.

 

[scottiejohn]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

They’ve not yet been in power six months and you’ve got the forum’s crystal ball out already.

 

No wonder given their abysmal record so far!

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He didn’t increase the tax burden on working people, which was the manifesto promise.

 

 

Out of that whole post you managed to find something that I did not post.

 

Not once did I mention manifesto's.

 

Not once did I mention tax on working people.

 

Get a refund from those prestigious Education Establishments that you apparently attended. They failed you drastically.

 

You are making Lee Anderson look like Einstein.

 

 

[superal]

[pub2022]

If there's a chance Farage wins next general election there will simply be no election.

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Out of that whole post you managed to find something that I did not post.

 

Not once did I mention manifesto's.

 

Not once did I mention tax on working people.

 

Get a refund from those prestigious Education Establishments that you apparently attended. They failed you drastically.

 

You are making Lee Anderson look like Einstein.

 

 

You obviously still don’t understand governments are voted in on the basis of their manifesto, so long as Starmer delivers on his manifesto ‘Job’s a good-un’.

 

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You obviously missed the years of austerity visited upon the poor while handing out tax cuts for the rich, neo-liberalism, anti-union legislation and pro-capital legislation.

 

What is austerity got to do with the Tory Party moving from the centre right under Thatcher to centre under Major and to the Centre Left today ?
 

You are making the Tottenham Turnip look like a MENSA member.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, superal said:

3,008,881 people, someone might actually be British citizens with a right to vote in UK elections, don’t understand the decision to call an election is the sole prerogative of the Prime Minister.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You obviously still don’t understand governments are voted in on the basis of their manifesto, so long as Starmer delivers on his manifesto ‘Job’s a good-un’.

 

 

 

 

 

Keep going cabbage head. You are doubling down on your own stupidity.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

What is austerity got to do with the Tory Party moving from the centre right under Thatcher to centre under Major and to the Centre Left today ?
 

You are making the Tottenham Turnip look like a MENSA member.

Ah yet more personal attacks.

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ah yet more personal attacks.

 

Here is another one

 

Now surpassed 150k

 

https://www.reformparty.uk/counter

 

Pointing out your glaring errors are not a personal attack, but inventing something that has not been written is not only wrong, it is seriously delusional, there is help available.

[3NUMBAS]

Another ethnic PM is the kiss of death for Tory’s esp as she is a bad ass woman who could start a fight in an empty room,Tory’s very doomed ,reform to replace them for good

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He didn’t increase the tax burden on working people, which was the manifesto promise.

 

B@llocks!

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

B@llocks!

In the absence of you having an arguments, I agree.

[Chomper Higgot]

Farage and Badenoch deserve each other:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/27/farage-threatens-action-over-badenoch-fake-reform-membership-data-claim

[superal]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

3,008,881 people, someone might actually be British citizens with a right to vote in UK elections, don’t understand the decision to call an election is the sole prerogative of the Prime Minister.

Also the king . Do you believe that this Labour government will see out their tenure ? The UK economy is plummeting and will be in recession early in the new year . Interest rates will rise along with inflation . This Labour circus need replacing asap . The PM job is clearly beyond the talents of Starmer along with his Muppet cabinet .  Do not underestimate the anger of the UK population . Who in their right mind would ever vote for Starmer and co again . 14 years in the planning of rescuing the economy and the NHS with proven costings ? At PMQT all they can come up with is the same old tripe of a 22 billion black hole and then chuck the same money at Millibrains carbon  neutral crap . ETC  ETC  . Next on the cards will be surrendering our fishing rights  and allowing EU labour to have free access to the UK employment market . No wonder money people and skilled professionals / tradesmen are leaving the UK in their thousands . To be replaced by low / unskilled economic immigrants who have little if any intention of integration but to stay within their own communities , as is the case that recent history shows .

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, superal said:

Also the king . Do you believe that this Labour government will see out their tenure ? The UK economy is plummeting and will be in recession early in the new year . Interest rates will rise along with inflation . This Labour circus need replacing asap . The PM job is clearly beyond the talents of Starmer along with his Muppet cabinet .  Do not underestimate the anger of the UK population . Who in their right mind would ever vote for Starmer and co again . 14 years in the planning of rescuing the economy and the NHS with proven costings ? At PMQT all they can come up with is the same old tripe of a 22 billion black hole and then chuck the same money at Millibrains carbon  neutral crap . ETC  ETC  . Next on the cards will be surrendering our fishing rights  and allowing EU labour to have free access to the UK employment market . No wonder money people and skilled professionals / tradesmen are leaving the UK in their thousands . To be replaced by low / unskilled economic immigrants who have little if any intention of integration but to stay within their own communities , as is the case that recent history shows .

The Labour Government have a 156 seat majority, they will serve a full term +/- the time the Labour PM decides when is most advantageous to Labour to call an election.

 

The Government are currently front loading the difficult/unpopular policies while at the same time making the investments in the NHS, education, public services and infrastructure that cost big but deliver the improvements the electorate demand.

 

Enacting these policies earlier give time for them to bear fruit before the next general election.

 

No amount of petitions, or online ranting is going to budge a Government with a 156 majority.

 

Out of curiosity, where are these thousands of skilled professionals / tradesmen going?

 

 

 

 

 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

So, as of today, I think we can rule out any private sector growth that will have any impact. We are on a downward trajectory, a growth killing Budget was just delivered in October and the effects of that will not really impact until April.

 

I agree that growth is unlikely in the short term.

 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Hope is not a plan, nor is any basis for assumption.

 

Once again, I agree. However, that was exactly what Liz Truss put her trust in when she introduced unfunded tax cuts. Look how that turned out 

 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

The Fully funded mantra can be kicked right into touch. It was nonsense before the budget, just as it is nonsense today.

 

Labour claims that its' proposals will be 'fully funded' by the end of this parliament. I accept that this assertion rests on some pretty optimistic assumptions, but it cannot be casually dismissed without some analyses.

 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Which brings us onto tax increase.

 

How long in general did Labour in general, and Starmer in particular, howl about the biggest tax burden in 70 years under the Tories ?
 

Only to increase the tax burden in October..

 

It's politics. You know that as well as me. Sad as it may be, why should Starmer be expected to behave any differently to any other politician?

 

If waiting lists, etc take a turn for the worse, no doubt Badenoch will criticise Starmer and promise that the waiting lists would somehow magically disappear under her leadership without offering any credible way of achieving it 

 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

A 1st year student economist could tell you that to create growth, you need to cut taxes, not increase taxes.

 

The same 1st year student economist should also be able to tell you that government investment can also stimulate growth.

 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Which is why I keep saying, that the carnage hasn't started yet, and the full effects will not be felt until the delayed tax rises take effect from April.

 

 

3 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

So with no growth since July. Q4 will be a negative, Q1 2025 will be flat or negative, another tax raising budget will be required in April....... And on the doomloop will continue.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0n14ywzqpo

 

Regulatory bodies are not the people to be asking for help in producing growth. But at least it shows that they possibly recognise the depth of the doo-doo, but do not know how to deal with it.

 

That remains to be seen. 

 

Do you believe that:

 

1. Public sector services in the UK require improvement?

2. The necessary improvement can be met by improvements in public sector productivity alone?

 

(I accept that a reasonable reply might be, "It depends on the sector and some productivity gains should be possible", but I don't have the time or inclination to discuss every sector individually so I'll stick to generalities).

 

If you are answered either, 'No' to Q1 or 'Yes' to Q2 then there is little point in us discussing things any further as we fundamentally disagree on the current situation. If, however, your replies are 'Yes' and 'No' then how will these improvements be funded?

 

At the risk of misinterpreting your position, you rule out tax increases but instead propose cutting taxes as this will stimulate growth and this increased volume of economic activity will, by extension, increase the absolute value of tax receipts, thus presumably enabling the government to finance its' spending. As I mentioned above, this is what Truss believed and enacted and look how that turned out.

 

Hopefully, there will soon be a time when it is economically sensible to cut taxes but, if we want to improve our public sector services, that time is not now.

[BusyB]

On 12/28/2024 at 2:03 AM, The Cyclist said:

By Christ, The exploding heads are out early this morning.

 

Keep spewing that hatred children. It is the very thing that drives him and drives people to Reform.

 

Don't kid yourself. Bigots of a feather will flock together whatever anyone says.

[JonnyF]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You might recall Jonny, that during the many BREXIT discussions we both enjoyed I frequently made the observation that the whole point of BREXIT was to prevent the Tory Party splitting.

 

Well here we are.

 

But don’t get your hopes up if the Tories folding, they’ll stick around.

 

And it’s Reform, not the Tories splitting the right wing vote.

 

 

 

The point of Brexit was to remove Britain from the tentacles of the corrupt failing federalist project that the EU is pursuing.

 

Job done. Get over it. 

[The Cyclist]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

1. Public sector services in the UK require improvement?

 

Public Sector Services in the UK are a disaster area. I wont go into the reasons now.

 

4 hours ago, RayC said:

2. The necessary improvement can be met by improvements in public sector productivity alone?

 

The Public Sector as a whole is a net drain on Finances. They are organs of the State that require funding through taxation. Public Sector productivity in reality means nothing, very few parts of it actually contribute to the economy.

 

But every component part of it, has layers of management that need trimmed, various others that are non jobs that are not required. This is where productivity is increased and costs reduced.

 

4 hours ago, RayC said:

It's politics. You know that as well as me. Sad as it may be, why should Starmer be expected to behave any differently to any other politician?

 

I'll just leave you this. Its that honest Mr Starmer

 

Quote

He will add: “To change Britain, we must change ourselves – we need to clean up politics.

 

Oops

 

4 hours ago, RayC said:

The same 1st year student economist should also be able to tell you that government investment can also stimulate growth.

 

Can you name somewhere that Labour is investing that will stimulate growth ?

 

4 hours ago, RayC said:

At the risk of misinterpreting your position, you rule out tax increases but instead propose cutting taxes as this will stimulate growth and this increased volume of economic activity will, by extension, increase the absolute value of tax receipts, thus presumably enabling the government to finance its' spending. As I mentioned above, this is what Truss believed and enacted and look how that turned out.

 

We don't know how it would have turned out. For the same reason I keep telling you that the carnage from the budget has not started yet, give it 6 months to work through the system

 

Truss never got 6 months for it to start working through the system.

 

Panic set in when the cost of 10 year guilts hit 4.5%

 

They are above that now

 

 

Oops

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Public Sector Services in the UK are a disaster area. I wont go into the reasons now.

 

 

The Public Sector as a whole is a net drain on Finances. They are organs of the State that require funding through taxation. Public Sector productivity in reality means nothing, very few parts of it actually contribute to the economy.

 

But every component part of it, has layers of management that need trimmed, various others that are non jobs that are not required. This is where productivity is increased and costs reduced.

 

 

I'll just leave you this. Its that honest Mr Starmer

 

 

Oops

 

 

Can you name somewhere that Labour is investing that will stimulate growth ?

 

 

We don't know how it would have turned out. For the same reason I keep telling you that the carnage from the budget has not started yet, give it 6 months to work through the system

 

Truss never got 6 months for it to start working through the system.

 

Panic set in when the cost of 10 year guilts hit 4.5%

 

They are above that now

 

 

Oops

 

 

Somebody with so little understanding of the part the public sector play in the functioning of the economy thinks he has a fix for what he believes is wrong with it.

 

“Public Sector Services in the UK are a disaster area. I wont go into the reasons now.”

 

Well I’m sure you won’t like to hear many of the reasons.

[The Cyclist]

35 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Somebody with so little understanding of the part the public sector play in the functioning of the economy thinks he has a fix for what he believes is wrong with it.

 

Your mentalism is manifesting itself again. I never mentioned anything to do with the functioning of the economy..

 

I said, quite specifically

 

10 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

very few parts of it actually contribute to the economy.

 

You really should book an appointment to see a specialist. All is not lost, if you seek help immediately.

 

Do yourself a big favour and make it your New Years Resolution.

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Your mentalism is manifesting itself again. I never mentioned anything to do with the functioning of the economy..

 

I said, quite specifically

 

 

You really should book an appointment to see a specialist. All is not lost, if you seek help immediately.

 

Do yourself a big favour and make it your New Years Resolution.

Ah, the personal attacks again.

[The Cyclist]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ah, the personal attacks again.

 

And yet again. I have to point out that highlighting your glaring errors are not personal attacks.

 

It's the only way that you learn by your mistakes, having your errors pointed out to you.  Did  your teachers personally attack you every day during your educational years ?
 

Continue to miscontrue or blatantly lie over anything I post, I will continue to personally attack highlight your glaring errors.

 

So you have an option. Cease and desist with your garbage or continue on your current path.