Avoid to pay tax

[Jack1988]

I don't want to pay tax in Thailand! Can I simply avoid that just put less than 150000thb in my Thai bank account per year? Normally I put 10000 THB every month as I'm not a big spender 

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, Jack1988 said:

I don't want to pay tax in Thailand! Can I simply avoid that just put less than 150000thb in my Thai bank account per year? Normally I put 10000 THB every month as I'm not a big spender 

210,000 THB should do the trick, unless you're over age 65 years, in which case the amount increases substantially.

[KannikaP]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

210,000 THB should do the trick, unless you're over age 65 years, in which case the amount increases substantially.

Yep, another Bht 190k is allowed, so up to 400k before you need to worry about it.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Yep, another Bht 190k is allowed, so up to 400k before you need to worry about it.

But filing requirements are different from paying tax requirements. 

[chiang mai]

Fight, fight, fight!  🙂

[OJAS]

36 minutes ago, Jack1988 said:

Can I simply avoid that just put less than 150000thb in my Thai bank account per year?

 

150k THB should be fully covered by TEDA's as things stand.

 

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Provided that said less than 150k THB is derived exclusively from income which has been earned in your home country, has been taxed there and (most importantly IMHO) is covered by the double taxation agreement existing between it and Thailand!

 

No, the 150k that is being referred to is the zero rated tax band that applies to any income from any source.

[OJAS]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

No, the 150k that is being referred to is the zero rated tax band that applies to any income from any source.

 I edited my original posting while you were replying to it!

 

[Jack1988]

Thanks for the answers. So I am not taxable if for example I put not more than 150000 THB in my Thai bank account? And I don't have to get a tax identification number? TIN

[The Cyclist]

15 minutes ago, Jack1988 said:

Thanks for the answers. So I am not taxable if for example I put not more than 150000 THB in my Thai bank account? And I don't have to get a tax identification number? TIN

 

That would depend on where the money comes from and what your Country - Thailand DTA says.

 

You might have to get a TIN and declare it, even though you will have no tax to pay.

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, Jack1988 said:

Thanks for the answers. So I am not taxable if for example I put not more than 150000 THB in my Thai bank account? And I don't have to get a tax identification number? TIN

There are several parts to this.

 

The first is that the amount of money you remit is only one factor, the other is the asessability to tax of that money. Technically, anything more than 60k baht of assessable funds, requires you to obtain a TIN and file a tax return. That is not to say you will pay tax on those funds, you wont, but those are the rules. The perceived common practise however is slightly different in that many people tend not to file a tax return, until they actually owe tax, which means remitting assessable income that is greater than the value of the deductions and allowances etc.

 

 

 

 

[Jack1988]

Is there a way to not pay tax? I have never paid and declared tax every time I came to Thailand 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Jack1988 said:

Is there a way to not pay tax? I have never paid and declared tax every time I came to Thailand 

Stay in Thailand for less than 179 days per calendar year.

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

12 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Stay in Thailand for less than 179 days per calendar year.

That is not how taxing works, you can still be considered an economic resident if you are not a tax resident anywhere else.

 

Many europeans make the same mistake by all making a company in Dubai to then still go back home for many months a year, turns out they are considered at least part a economic resident and are taxed back now many years in history. The same will happen by those who ignore this significant Thai change.

 

They already fine tune the laws now, and you will see this in coming years globally more: if you were a resident for the past 3 years out of 10 years, you remain taxable. France already implements it as a test.

 

You have to focus on minimizing your taxes legally.

[chiang mai]

15 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That is not how taxing works, you can still be considered an economic resident if you are not a tax resident anywhere else.

 

Many europeans make the same mistake by all making a company in Dubai to then still go back home for many months a year, turns out they are considered at least part a economic resident and are taxed back now many years in history. The same will happen by those who ignore this significant Thai change.

 

They already fine tune the laws now, and you will see this in coming years globally more: if you were a resident for the past 3 years out of 10 years, you remain taxable. France already implements it as a test.

 

You have to focus on minimizing your taxes legally.

Nonsense! The poster is not Thai and would never be deemed Thai tax resident, if he stayed here for less than 179 days per calendar year.

[Jack1988]

Yes I like to stay in Thailand less than 180 days a year. Then no problem for me. That's great 😃 

 

I don't want to pay tax for a country that is not mine. I don't even want to pay it in my country haha

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That is not how taxing works, you can still be considered an economic resident if you are not a tax resident anywhere else.

 

Many europeans make the same mistake by all making a company in Dubai to then still go back home for many months a year, turns out they are considered at least part a economic resident and are taxed back now many years in history. The same will happen by those who ignore this significant Thai change.

 

They already fine tune the laws now, and you will see this in coming years globally more: if you were a resident for the past 3 years out of 10 years, you remain taxable. France already implements it as a test.

 

You have to focus on minimizing your taxes legally.

yes the OECD agreement, plus CRS and FACTA have all come about they say to stop people from not paying taxes on their income to some country.  And Thailand which signed onto that agreement and looked closely at their tax situation while looking at empty govt coffers has begun changing their tax system and from what we have seen, they plan to further change to the worldwide income tax scheme which many countries too have changed to.  Eventually, I think that very few countries will ignore those that avoid paying taxes anywhere.

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That is not how taxing works, you can still be considered an economic resident if you are not a tax resident anywhere else.

 

For someone who has frequently argued like a man possessed, this comment is hilarious.

 

A Foreigner who earns no income in Thailand, and spends less than 179 days in a tax year in thailand, will never be an economic resident ( whatever 1 of them is ) or a tax resident.

 

Now might be a good time to lay off certain substances.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Jack1988 said:

Is there a way to not pay tax? I have never paid and declared tax every time I came to Thailand 

 

I like to use the words "Is there a way to legally minimize my tax obligations"  ... as opposed to "avoid to pay tax" (per the thread title).  Granted I think for most the intent is close to the same - but 'avoiding tax' terminology can get a 'bad rap'.

 

In addition to considerations in regards to the specific thresholds (of income) for tax filing, and paying tax, as noted aspects such as the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the foreign country where one's income is sourced, is also a factor, which may mean more money (than the nominal Thailand income tax payment threshold) could be brought into Thailand without being subject to Thai tax.  Every DTA is different, so one needs to examine the DTA relevant to their own country.

 

Further a recent (Nov-2023) Thailand Revenue Department (RD) document, paw-161, notes, that any foreign income or foreign savings brought into Thailand before 1-Jan-2024, is not taxable.  At least that is my understanding, and IF that is correct, then one can legally bring even more money earned and saved from before 1-Jan-2024 (than the taxation thresholds) into Thailand without having to pay Thailand tax on such.

 

I find the Taxation filing requirements (given aspects such as paw.161, and LTR visa) a bit less clear, hence I am trying to watch what I see as a developing clarity on this, as best as I can.

 

Best wishes in managing your tax situation.

 

[mfd101]

I bring in over 1 million ฿ each year, converted from Oz dollars. It is all derived from 2 sources: my investment of my lump sum on retirement from the Australian Public Service in 2004 (ie well outside Thai assessability) + fortnightly income from Oz federal government current expenditure (ie Thai-assessable from Jan 2024).

 

I was forced 2 or 3 months ago - by my Oz bank (NAB) - to take out a Thai TIN, which I did assisted by the helpful & polite ladies at the TRD office here in Prasat Surin.

 

So I now have 3 options:

(1) Fill out Thai tax declaration, pointing out the relevant (difficult to understand - even for me) section in the Thai/Oz DTA, which appears to say that my second source above - the only relevant one - can be taxed ONLY in Oz; OR

(2) Do nothing, on the basis that my assessment is that I have no tax due to Thailand (now or in the future); OR

(3) Consult the nice ladies at the local TRD, where they probably have not seen or heard of such a thing as a DTA.

 

Mmmmm. I think I should do (3), but I'm inclined towards (2), at least for the next 12 months ... to see how matters evolve.

 

Any relevant comments?

 

 

[chiang mai]

26 minutes ago, Presnock said:

yes the OECD agreement, plus CRS and FACTA have all come about they say to stop people from not paying taxes on their income to some country.  And Thailand which signed onto that agreement and looked closely at their tax situation while looking at empty govt coffers has begun changing their tax system and from what we have seen, they plan to further change to the worldwide income tax scheme which many countries too have changed to.  Eventually, I think that very few countries will ignore those that avoid paying taxes anywhere.

True, but this never extend to mean tourists will be taxed, just because they visit Thailand for a few months.

[chiang mai]

24 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I bring in over 1 million ฿ each year, converted from Oz dollars. It is all derived from 2 sources: my investment of my lump sum on retirement from the Australian Public Service in 2004 (ie well outside Thai assessability) + fortnightly income from Oz federal government current expenditure (ie Thai-assessable from Jan 2024).

 

I was forced 2 or 3 months ago - by my Oz bank (NAB) - to take out a Thai TIN, which I did assisted by the helpful & polite ladies at the TRD office here in Prasat Surin.

 

So I now have 3 options:

(1) Fill out Thai tax declaration, pointing out the relevant (difficult to understand - even for me) section in the Thai/Oz DTA, which appears to say that my second source above - the only relevant one - can be taxed ONLY in Oz; OR

(2) Do nothing, on the basis that my assessment is that I have no tax due to Thailand (now or in the future); OR

(3) Consult the nice ladies at the local TRD, where they probably have not seen or heard of such a thing as a DTA.

 

Mmmmm. I think I should do (3), but I'm inclined towards (2), at least for the next 12 months ... to see how matters evolve.

 

Any relevant comments?

 

 

Numbers 2 or 3 are both reasonable 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

True, but this never extend to mean tourists will be taxed, just because they visit Thailand for a few months.

 

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

True, but this never extend to mean tourists will be taxed, just because they visit Thailand for a few months.

Where in the taxation plan of the Thai govt does it say tourists' income is taxable?  If a touris stays here 180 days  in a calendar year, then they would be taxed as they ceased to be tourists and should be here under some other visa.  Even on the worldwide scheme of things, tourists would not be taxed as that would be a death knell for tourism  By doing the digital nomad and chnaging country every 179 or some other key numbers for different countries in order to never becoming a tax resident in any country, is a "legal" way to avoid paying taxes but eventually I think that countries will also change their meaning of tax resident and that everyone will have to  have a tax ID number from some country which will then have to be provided when obtaining a visa.  I have had to pay taxes my entire working life as an American as well as on my pension yearly.  The reason all these tax schemes which has caused worries for some people is due to the fact that some people just haven't paid taxes somewhere.  Is it right? I don't know but I understand why a country like this one has no money in the govt coffers since so few of the citizens actually pay taxes here.  If one wants to avoid ever paying taxes anywhere, that is a personal problem maybe.

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

 

Where in the taxation plan of the Thai govt does it say tourists' income is taxable?  If a touris stays here 180 days  in a calendar year, then they would be taxed as they ceased to be tourists and should be here under some other visa.  Even on the worldwide scheme of things, tourists would not be taxed as that would be a death knell for tourism  By doing the digital nomad and chnaging country every 179 or some other key numbers for different countries in order to never becoming a tax resident in any country, is a "legal" way to avoid paying taxes but eventually I think that countries will also change their meaning of tax resident and that everyone will have to  have a tax ID number from some country which will then have to be provided when obtaining a visa.  I have had to pay taxes my entire working life as an American as well as on my pension yearly.  The reason all these tax schemes which has caused worries for some people is due to the fact that some people just haven't paid taxes somewhere.  Is it right? I don't know but I understand why a country like this one has no money in the govt coffers since so few of the citizens actually pay taxes here.  If one wants to avoid ever paying taxes anywhere, that is a personal problem maybe.

 

Whoosh

[MartinBangkok]

8 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That is not how taxing works, you can still be considered an economic resident if you are not a tax resident anywhere else.

 

Many europeans make the same mistake by all making a company in Dubai to then still go back home for many months a year, turns out they are considered at least part a economic resident and are taxed back now many years in history. The same will happen by those who ignore this significant Thai change.

 

They already fine tune the laws now, and you will see this in coming years globally more: if you were a resident for the past 3 years out of 10 years, you remain taxable. France already implements it as a test.

 

You have to focus on minimizing your taxes legally.

You have no clue @ChaiyaTH. Less than 180 days in Thailand = zero tax in Thailand. If you doubt me, speak to a tax expert in one of the big 5. Status in other countries is irrelevant.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, MartinBangkok said:

You have no clue @ChaiyaTH. Less than 180 days in Thailand = zero tax in Thailand. If you doubt me, speak to a tax expert in one of the big 5. Status in other countries is irrelevant.

As far as remittances to Thailand, correct.

As far as economic activity IN Thailand (working, business, rental income, etc.) it's irrelevant if you're a Thai tax resident -- you'd still be subject to Thai tax.

[mudcat]

Just to get everyone on the same page the initial TRD change to remittance's tax status for assessable income was in No. 161 from 15 September. It was walked back to exempt pre-2024 savings, income, or assets on November 29 in No. 162. I would attach a pdf with the Thai and unofficial translation to English but pdf are not one of the acceptable file types, so do a Google search

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

You have no clue @ChaiyaTH. Less than 180 days in Thailand = zero tax in Thailand. If you doubt me, speak to a tax expert in one of the big 5. Status in other countries is irrelevant.

That is too sweeping a statement and not sufficiently explained. There are a few scenarios in which a non tax resident (ie under 180 days in Thailand) still has a Thai tax obligation.

 

a better statement would be; never spend more than 179 days in any calendar year, never earn money in Thailand or from a Thai company and you are probably (almost certainly) immune to Thai taxation.

[NoDisplayName]

9 hours ago, mfd101 said:

So I now have 3 options:

(1) Fill out Thai tax declaration, pointing out the relevant (difficult to understand - even for me) section in the Thai/Oz DTA, which appears to say that my second source above - the only relevant one - can be taxed ONLY in Oz; OR

(2) Do nothing, on the basis that my assessment is that I have no tax due to Thailand (now or in the future); OR

(3) Consult the nice ladies at the local TRD, where they probably have not seen or heard of such a thing as a DTA.

 

(4) File a Thai tax return listing only Thai sourced income and ASSESSABLE foreign remittances, and use your interest withholding tax refund to buy a pizza and a beer.

 

If it's not assessable, currently up to you to determine, then you don't include it on the tax forms.

 

You only need to bring up DTA's in the unlikely event you're called in for questioning about your return, and the officer on deck does not accept "prior savings from before 2024" or "government pension" if your remittances are questioned.

[NoDisplayName]

9 hours ago, chiang mai said:

True, but this never extend to mean tourists will be taxed, just because they visit Thailand for a few months.

 

There are plenty that live in Thailand >180 days on a mix of tourist visas and waivers.

 

Still tourists, and would technically be subject to taxation, but unlikely to ever pay or be caught up.