Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[jwest10]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

 

Yes, Thai wife, Thai bank account.....and I have my own Thai bank account.

 

Someone did suggest another way........just stick the 400k in a Thai account and 'forget about it'......just use that account every year for the extension based on marriage......but still keep the 'gift to the wife' idea going to cover our living expenses.

Yes, I use the minimum 800k and might add to it or in emergencies take some out but never ever let it drop 800k below and the same for you 400k

[Sheryl]

Uk State Pensions are tax assessable in Thaiand (if you are aTax Resident and -- at present -- remit it to Thailand). 

 

One might end up owing no tax once various exemptions and allowances are factored in, same could happen to people employed at low salaries.  But to my understanding you are required to file if you have assesssble income from non-employment sources of 60k of more (120k if married).  In the case of income from employment those thresholds ate 120/220.

 

Now if the result of filing would be no tax owed the most you risk by not filing is a 2,000 baht fine. But it is simple enough to comply with this and wouldn't take at all long.

 

 

[oldcpu]

47 minutes ago, JimGant said:

That doesn't quite square with this:

 

Not that Expatthai gets it right every time......

 

The UK-Northern Ireland DTA with Thailand has to be one of the worst I read out of curiosity.  I am glad it doesn't involve me.

 

Its clear to me that retired UK civil servants pay tax in UK on their government provided pension (unless one is both a Thai citizen AND resident of Thailand).  Apologies if I have the terminology inaccurate.

 

But its FAR less clear in that DTA for the average Joe UK citizen, in receipt of a pension from the UK government, as to where the tax should be paid.

 

I would recommend any in receipt of a UK pension (who is not a civil service nor military pension) to double check on what Expatthai claim.

.

[jwest10]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Uk State Pensions are tax assessable in Thaiand (if you are aTax Resident and -- at present -- remit it to Thailand). 

 

One might end up owing no tax once various exemptions and allowances are factored in, same could happen to people employed at low salaries.  But to my understanding you are required to file if you have assesssble income from non-employment sources of 60k of more (120k if married).  In the case of income from employment those thresholds ate 120/220.

 

Now if the result of filing would be no tax owed the most you risk by not filing is a 2,000 baht fine. But it is simple enough to comply with this and wouldn't take at all long.

 

 

The DWP remit on their own and sent directly to a Thai bank and that makes a difference, somehow and no employment income!!

[oldcpu]

15 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Yes, Thai wife, Thai bank account.....and I have my own Thai bank account.

 

Someone did suggest another way........just stick the 400k in my Thai account and 'forget about it'......just use that account every year for the extension based on marriage......but still keep the 'gift to the wife' idea going to cover our living expenses.

 

If the money you gift someone in Thailand, is used to help your own living expenses, then my understanding is that gift is no longer considered a tax exemption.

[Will B Good]

Just now, oldcpu said:

 

If the money you gift someone in Thailand, is used to help your own living expenses, then my understanding is that gift is no longer considered a tax exemption.

 

I see what you mean......but you have to wonder...... who on Earth would ever know.......... I guess it comes down to telling the truth!!!

[The Cyclist]

Apropos to the thread, but from a UK perspective, with less than 3 weeks to go in the filing season.

 

As I have pointed out, most people in the UK are PAYE, and only some need to file a self assessement.

 

So here are some handy tips

 

Quote

Don’t assume it doesn’t apply to you

 

 

Quote

Other reasons to submit a return include being self-employed and earning more than £1,000, or if you have any other untaxed income from tips and commission, savings, investments and dividends, as well as rental or foreign income.”

 

Quote

Don’t forget to declare any foreign income and your residency status,

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/jan/11/expert-tips-on-getting-uk-self-assessment-tax-returns-right

 

The UK does not operate a blanket worldwide taxation policy. I wonder why you would need to declare foreign income ?

[Will B Good]

18 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Uk State Pensions are tax assessable in Thaiand (if you are aTax Resident and -- at present -- remit it to Thailand). 

 

One might end up owing no tax once various exemptions and allowances are factored in, same could happen to people employed at low salaries.  But to my understanding you are required to file if you have assesssble income from non-employment sources of 60k of more (120k if married).  In the case of income from employment those thresholds ate 120/220.

 

Now if the result of filing would be no tax owed the most you risk by not filing is a 2,000 baht fine. But it is simple enough to comply with this and wouldn't take at all long.

 

 

 

So I need to set up my UK bank account to receive my three pensions........don't transfer anything for a year.....then claim future transfers are pension receipts from the previous year and therefore not taxable in Thailand?????

[oldcpu]

40 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

My plan....anyone see any holes in this?

 

Open a new bank account in the UK to receive my state pension only......use that account for my 400,00 baht each year (marriage extension).....so tax free.

 

You lost me here.  The 400k baht for a marriage extension needs to be in a Thai bank account . 

 

So i don't see why you would want to open a new UK account, UNLESS you are trying to avoid co-mingling new pension income, from that money saved from before 1-Jan-2024 (reference paw.161/162), ... in which case, yes, that makes sense to me..

[oldcpu]

5 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

So I need to set up my UK bank account to receive my three pensions........don't transfer anything for a year.....then claim future transfers are pension receipts from the previous year and therefore not taxable in Thailand?????

 

Not any more.  According to Paw.161/162, any new money remitted to Thailand that is income after 31-Dec-2023 is taxable in Thailand.  (Edit; dependent on one's DTA and other aspects)

 

Its the money from before 1-Jan-2024 that needs to be separated from new income after 31-Dec-2023.

 

Or am I misunderstanding your point?

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

You lost me here.  The 400k baht for a marriage extension needs to be in a Thai bank account . 

 

So i don't see why you would want to open a new UK account, UNLESS you are trying to avoid co-mingling new pension income, from that money saved from before 1-Jan-2024 (reference paw.161/162), ... in which case, yes, that makes sense to me..

 

Yes sorry....it was to transfer to my Thai account and to keep the record straight..... so there are no arguments about the source.

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Not any more.  According to Paw.161/162, any money remitted to Thailand that is income after 31-Dec-2023 is taxable in Thailand.

 

Its the money from before 1-Jan-2024 that needs to be separated from new income after 31-Dec-2023.

 

Or am I misunderstanding your point?

Not sure to be honest.

 

I'm just trying to get to a position where I can honestly say this money I have transferred, UK to Thailand, was pension money from a previous year so it avoids tax in Thailand.

 

If I only have one bank account with all sorts going into it how do I prove it is money that is a over a year old coming to Thialand

 

[oldcpu]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Not sure to be honest.

 

I'm just trying to get to a position where I can honestly say this money I have transferred, UK to Thailand, was pension money from a previous year so it avoids tax in Thailand.

 

If I only have one bank account with all sorts going into it how do I prove it is money that is a over a year old coming to Thialand

 

 

if you have foreign income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024, then paw-161/162 says you can bring that money into Thailand anytime in the future and  it is not subject to Thai taxation.

 

Any money after 31-Dec-2023 that is then earned, will be subject to Thai tax, no matter when in the future it is brought into Thailand.

 

So its the pre-1-Jan-2024 foreign money that needs to be tracked separately from the post 31-Dec-2023 newly earned money.

 

In my case, I made a print out of my money as of 31-Dec-2023 (end of business day).

 

I then created 2 spreadsheets to help track the money.

 

Spreadsheet-A lists only income money from 1-Jan-2024 and onward. I try not to show any transfer of money to Thailand from this amount.  However for any money spent OUTSIDE of Thailand (ie never brought into Thailand) , I will show deductions from that account.

 

Spreadsheet-B lists the money I had prior to 1-Jan-2024, and each time I do a transfer of money to Thailand , I subtract that transfer of money to Thailand amount from that amount.  This is clearly for taxation purposes and will list ALL my transfers of money to Thailand. ONLY when this goes to ZERO will I need to stop using this approach.

 

Its not ideal - separate bank accounts are better, but those separate accounts would have needed to have been setup before my first foreign incomes after 31-Dec-2023 , and I did not try to set up accounts then.

.

 

 

[oldcpu]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

If I only have one bank account with all sorts going into it how do I prove it is money that is a over a year old coming to Thialand

 

 

Why do you keep stating "a year old'?

 

The year old NO LONGER APPLIES.

[jwest10]

11 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Not sure to be honest.

 

I'm just trying to get to a position where I can honestly say this money I have transferred, UK to Thailand, was pension money from a previous year so it avoids tax in Thailand.

 

If I only have one bank account with all sorts going into it how do I prove it is money that is a over a year old coming to Thialand

 

The dates on the passbook maybe? Only need to go back to 1st Jan 2024

 

[scottiejohn]

38 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Now if the result of filing would be no tax owed the most you risk by not filing is a 2,000 baht fine. But it is simple enough to comply with this and wouldn't take at all long.

If you live near a Tax office!

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

 

if you have foreign income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024, then paw-161/162 says you can bring that money into Thailand anytime in the future and  it is not subject to Thai taxation.

 

Any money after 31-Dec-2023 that is then earned, will be subject to Thai tax, no matter when in the future it is brought into Thailand.

 

So its the pre-1-Jan-2024 foreign money that needs to be tracked separately from the post 31-Dec-2023 newly earned money.

 

In my case, I made a print out of my money as of 31-Dec-2023 (end of business day).

 

I then created 2 spreadsheets to help track the money.

 

Spreadsheet-A lists only income money from 1-Jan-2024 and onward. I try not to show any transfer of money to Thailand from this amount.  However for any money spent OUTSIDE of Thailand (ie never brought into Thailand) , I will show deductions from that account.

 

Spreadsheet-B lists the money I had prior to 1-Jan-2024, and each time I do a transfer of money to Thailand , I subtract that transfer amount from that amount.  This is clearly for taxation purposes and will list ALL my transfers of money to Thailand. ONLY when this goes to ZERO will I need to stop using this approach.

 

Its not ideal - separate bank accounts are better, but those separate accounts would have needed to have been setup before my first foreign incomes after 31-Dec-2023 , and I did not try to set up accounts then.

.

 

 

Cheers thanks for that.....bit of a nightmare all round for the tax numpties on here like me....

 

........Especially when you read post from people who seem to know what they are talking about, arguing vehemently with people who also so seem to know what they are talking about.....555

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Why do you keep stating "a year old'?

 

The year old NO LONGER APPLIES.

 

Thanks...that bit has slowly sunk in.....

[CharlesHolzhauer]

59 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Any/all additional cash to be gifted to the wife's account from another UK account....government pension, company pension, rental income, investment income.......also tax free in Thailand.

In my opinion, your proposed 'gifting' scenario might not pass the 'sniff test,' as there are specific rules under Thai law that need to be followed. From my understanding, a monetary gift from a foreign husband to a Thai wife, both residing in Thailand, involves several considerations:
If the monetary gift is deposited into the wife's Thai bank account, it’s crucial to have proper documentation, such as a letter or declaration from the husband clearly specifying the nature of the gift.
Retain bank statements and proof of the husband’s source of funds to address any potential questions from the Revenue Department.
Clearly document the purpose of the transfer as a gift to avoid any misunderstandings or disputes about its nature.
Ensure that the documentation explicitly states that the gift is for her sole benefit and that the donor will not benefit from it.
For added security, have all relevant documents notarized by a Thai lawyer.
Taking these steps may or can help ensure the transaction is compliant with Thai laws and avoids unnecessary complications. Ultimately, it’s up to the Thai Revenue Department (TRD) auditor to accept whichever scenario you apply. While following proper procedures and documentation can strengthen your case, the final decision often depends on the auditor's interpretation and discretion. This makes it all the more important to ensure every detail is meticulously documented and aligned with Thai legal requirements.

[jwest10]

9 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

If you live near a Tax office!

You would think so but many are not very knowledgeable and not their fault.
Not including mine and for several times states under my circumstances I do not need to file as no Tin would be allowed as no employment income in Thailand

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

In my opinion, your proposed 'gifting' scenario might not pass the 'sniff test,' as there are specific rules under Thai law that need to be followed. From my understanding, a monetary gift from a foreign husband to a Thai wife, both residing in Thailand, involves several considerations:
If the monetary gift is deposited into the wife's Thai bank account, it’s crucial to have proper documentation, such as a letter or declaration from the husband clearly specifying the nature of the gift.
Retain bank statements and proof of the husband’s source of funds to address any potential questions from the Revenue Department.
Clearly document the purpose of the transfer as a gift to avoid any misunderstandings or disputes about its nature.
Ensure that the documentation explicitly states that the gift is for her sole benefit and that the donor will not benefit from it.
For added security, have all relevant documents notarized by a Thai lawyer.
Taking these steps may or can help ensure the transaction is compliant with Thai laws and avoids unnecessary complications. Ultimately, it’s up to the Thai Revenue Department (TRD) auditor to accept whichever scenario you apply. While following proper procedures and documentation can strengthen your case, the final decision often depends on the auditor's interpretation and discretion. This makes it all the more important to ensure every detail is meticulously documented and aligned with Thai legal requirements.

 

Yikes....thanks for that ....going to have take a long hard look at all this stuff....cheers.

[Will B Good]

9 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Why do you keep stating "a year old'?

 

The year old NO LONGER APPLIES.

 

Don't shout at me.....I'm very delicate....this is the statement that confuses me.....

 

Under Thai tax rules, foreign income (e.g., pensions or investment income) is taxable only if remitted to Thailand in the same calendar year it is earned.

 

That says to me if I prove it was "earned" more than a year before I remitted it, it is tax free??????

[oldcpu]

14 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

...this is the statement that confuses me.....

 

Under Thai tax rules, foreign income (e.g., pensions or investment income) is taxable only if remitted to Thailand in the same calendar year it is earned.

 

That says to me if I prove it was "earned" more than a year before I remitted it, it is tax free??????

 

That used to be the case. That is out of date.

 

In Oct-2023, followed next in Nov-2023, the Thai Revenue Department issued two 'directives' (?) , Paw.161 and 162.

 

paw.161 stated that any assessable income/money brought into Thailand, will be assessed as being taxable by Thailand if the person receiving the money is a tax resident of Thailand (those are my words).  That means "the same calendar" year practice from before was no longer the case. (of course DTAs and other aspects complicate this a bit).

 

paw.162 then clarified that, and noted 161 did NOT apply to any income / savings from before 1-Jan-2024. 

 

Which is understood by most to mean any cash (equities not so clear) in one's foreign accounts from before 1-Jan-2024 can be brought into Thailand anytime in the future and not be assessed as taxable by Thailand.

[Will B Good]

Just now, oldcpu said:

 

That used to be the case. That is out of date.

 

In Oct-2023, followed next in Nov-2023, the Thai Revenue Department issued two 'directives' (?) , Paw.161 and 162.

 

paw.161 stated that any assessable income/money brought into Thailand, will be assessed as being table if person remitting the money is a tax resident of Thailand (those are my words).  That means "the same calendar" year practice from before was no longer the case.

 

paw.162 then clarified that, and noted 161 did NOT apply to any income / savings from before 1-Jan-2024. 

 

Which is understood by most to mean any cash (equities not so clear) in one's foreign accounts from before 1-Jan-2024 can be brought into Thailand anytime in the future and not be assessed as taxable by Thailand.

 

Thank you....that is where all the confusion arose in my mind......!!!!

[Millian]

Something I'd like to discuss which I haven't seen mentioned so far. (although I'm sure it probably has, so please excuse if so)

AFAIK, the only change to the law at the moment, is that all money remitted to Thailand is liable for tax, where as previously it was only liable if it was earned in the current year it was remitted.

Now, how many of us in all our previous yeas here, have been audited by the Tax man to prove money remitted wasn't earned in the current year?  I'm going to guess not many of us?

 

So I'm wondering why all the worry right now? If they have never really been checking previously when money was earned, why do we think they are going to start auditing everyone now? 

Have they stated they are going to police this more going forward, is this why the panic?  Or is it simply because they have changed the law, we are presuming they are going to be more strict now?

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

Its clear to me that retired UK civil servants pay tax in UK on their government provided pension (unless one is both a Thai citizen AND resident of Thailand).  Apologies if I have the terminology inaccurate.

 

But its FAR less clear in that DTA for the average Joe UK citizen, in receipt of a pension from the UK government, as to where the tax should be paid.

 

On the UK Gov website there is a long list of Government pensions listed in alphabetical order ( I think ) The First on the list is Armed Forces Pensions and on it goes.

 

A link to it has already been posted in one of the threads.

 

All these Pensions ( above the 12570 UK threshold ) are taxed at source.

 

A UK Citizen will pay tax on this, in the UK, until the day they die.

 

A Dual National, can change tax regimes, only if they return to their Country of origin.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

On the UK Gov website there is a long list of Government pensions listed in alphabetical order ( I think ) The First on the list is Armed Forces Pensions and on it goes.

 

A link to it has already been posted in one of the threads.

 

All these Pensions ( above the 12570 UK threshold ) are taxed at source.

 

A UK Citizen will pay tax on this, in the UK, until the day they die.

 

A Dual National, can change tax regimes, only if they return to their Country of origin.

 

I receive a government pension taxed at source.........so if I used this for funding my life in Thailand I either won't pay tax on it here.....or will at least get a tax credit for the tax I pay in the UK......??????

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Millian said:

Something I'd like to discuss which I haven't seen mentioned so far. (although I'm sure it probably has, so please excuse if so)

AFAIK, the only change to the law at the moment, is that all money remitted to Thailand is liable for tax, where as previously it was only liable if it was earned in the current year it was remitted.

Now, how many of us in all our previous yeas here, have been audited by the Tax man to prove money remitted wasn't earned in the current year?  I'm going to guess not many of us?

 

So I'm wondering why all the worry right now? If they have never really been checking previously when money was earned, why do we think they are going to start auditing everyone now? 

Have they stated they are going to police this more going forward, is this why the panic?  Or is it simply because they have changed the law, we are presuming they are going to be more strict now?

A very good point which I've thought of myself.

We do know that rule was changed which can be called a loophole as wide as the Holland Tunnel. 

We also know certainly that a significant percentage of foreigners did remit accessible income the same year so technically that should have been filed and tax paid if due.

But I've not heard of a typical retired expat that ever did file about remittances. 

Perhaps some expats with economic activity in Thailand AND remittances and getting tax advice might have dealt with this issue.

As far as the number of expats audited just over investigating this matter?

I would guess ZERO. 

So in practical reality that was a SUPER LOOPHOLE which most expats didn't even know about and if they did could be confident it didn't matter anyway as it was fair to assume they would never be challenged.

As I've said before, we DO know this rule has changed.

But we don't know what that will mean as far as audits and investigations.

Time will tell. Not sure if that means a lot of time or a little.

If I had to predict, I do think because of all this media attention including pronouncements from Thai authorities, that's it's fair to assume some level of enforcement though up from nothing to something possible even a lot. 

 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

A very good point which I've thought of myseld.

We do know that rule was changed which can be called a loophole as wide as the Holland Tunnel. 

We also know certainly that a significant percentage of foreigners did remit accessible income the same year so technically that should have been filed and tax paid if due.

As far as the number of expats audited just over investigating this matter?

I would guess ZERO. 

So in practical reality that was a SUPER LOOPHOLE which most expats didn't even know about and if they did could be confident it didn't matter anyway.

As I've said before, we DO know this rule has changed.

But we don't know what that will mean as far as audits and investigations.

Time will tell. Not sure if that means a lot of time or a little.

 

 

Another thing that crossed my mind.......how many expats even have a clue that these changes are taking place?

 

I only know from coming on this site......there must be 1000's out there, blissfully ignorant, and not rushing to get their TIN and file a return for March 31.

[oldcpu]

32 minutes ago, Millian said:

AFAIK, the only change to the law at the moment, is that all money remitted to Thailand is liable for tax, where as previously it was only liable if it was earned in the current year it was remitted.

 

There has been no change to the law, from what I understand.  Rather there were RD directives defining better how the RD interprets the law (Paw-161/162).  As part of that the Thai RD has been reminding residents (via Thailand news articles) of Thailand (both citizens and foreigners a like) that they are considered Thailand tax residents if they reside in Thailand for 180 days or greater in any given calendar (tax) year.

 

Further, per paw-161/162, the interpretation is not all money remitted into Thailand is liable for tax.  Only that foreign income commencing 1-Jan-2024 if remitted to Thailand is liable for tax.

 

This has resulted in many looking at Double Tax Agreements between the country from which their foreign income is sourced and with Thailand, to see if maybe the DTA provides them a further exemption from Thailand tax.

 

There is also existing Thai law governing tax exemptions , and whether such need be included in a tax calculation.  No change , but because of the need now to possibly be liable to taxation, this is now getting a lot of attention, while in the past such was mostly ignored.

 

Further, there is a concern that companies that provide tax return service to foreigners, may be exaggerating the current state of affairs and trying to make money off of foreigners here.  Of course there may be no exaggeration , but needless to say, there is worry and confusion.

 

I could go  on about other aspects, but I think you 'catch the drift' ..  

 

In essence the new RD interpretations opened a pandorras box of concerns.