Palisades Fire in LA has zero containment

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, Nid_Noi said:

You can keep water pressure if water reservoirs are well stocked, number of pumps are designed in relation to diameter of the pipes and their numbers are sufficient for the network they are supposed to cover. Plenty electricity is required to make the system efficient.

Maybe one day California will invest in more desalination plants. The 5 actual plants have not the necessary capacities and the 2 projects voted in 2015, expected to be in operation in 2022 have been delayed until 2028.

Another factor is the cost of electricity (the most expensive in the US). These plants need an additional nuclear generation plant to be 100% operational.

 

https://lynceans.org/all-posts/status-of-desalination-plants-in-california-2/#:~:text=Sand City Coastal Desalination Plant in Monterey County was the,acre-feet%2Fyear).

 

California has only one nuclear plant with only 2 reactors (the Diablo Canyon). Since the 1970s many plants have been decommissioned after ecologists have fought against nuclear energy.

No energy, no fire hydrants.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

 

It was not possible for the water supply piping to support the water demands that were required. You have ignored the impact of the non public use of the water supply for residential and commercial sprinkler systems.

The water reservoirs were filled. Which reservoirs were empty? One was out of service for urgent repairs.

Where are you getting your civil engineering expertise, because it just is not feasible to have the pipe diameters and  pressurization need to support a system that has every hydrant opened and  is being drained by additional private hydrant and diversion.

 

In respect to your magical desalination plant solution. Again it is not cost effective nor environmentally sustainable. The San Diego  Carlsbad plant cost US $1billion to build in 2015, and costs  in excess of $100 milion to operate. The land requirements are enormous and there is  a negative impact from the plants operation. The taxpayers of California do not want to  build a desalination plant because it costs  many times more to operate than to purchase it from other sources.  

 

And now you want California to build more nuclear power plants. In what magical world do you live in where you build nuclear power plants in a region expecting a catastrophic  earthquake . California is an earthquake waiting to happen. Ever hear of the Fukashima catastrophe?  And just where would you store the nuclear waste? No one in the USA wants to accept it in their  region. Nuclear waste disposal is  a big problem in the USA.

 

 

 

[Hawaiian]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh no. LGBTQ civil rights. So nonproductive. Do you consider yourself SUPERIOR to such minority groups? In general maga people do. 

They have no more rights than I do, so why should they deserve special recognition?

Some of my best friends are gays and lesbians and they don't flaunt it.  Two of my best tenants are lesbians with whom I have more than tenant/landlord relationship.  In fact I will be visiting them tomorrow with a few gifts.  My girlfriend, who happens to be Thai, also thinks they are great people.  She would be joining me also if she didn't have to work.

You need to stop insinuating that I am a maga person because I don't subscribe to your warped agenda.  Go preach your garbage to some one else.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Hawaiian said:

They have no more rights than I do, so why should they deserve special recognition?

Some of my best friends are gays and lesbians and they don't flaunt it.  Two of my best tenants are lesbians with whom I have more than tenant/landlord relationship.  In fact I will be visiting them tomorrow with a few gifts.  My girlfriend, who happens to be Thai, also thinks they are great people.  She would be joining me also if she didn't have to work.

You need to stop insinuating that I am a maga person because I don't subscribe to your warped agenda.  Go preach your garbage to some one else.

More rights than you do? Garbage lie. 

Come back when you've digested basic facts. 

[Hawaiian]

10 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Yep.  She usually speaks her mind.  Mostly, it's funny. 

And nutty.

[Hawaiian]

Just now, Jingthing said:

More rights than you do? Garbage lie. 

Come back when you've digested basic facts. 

Sorry, I don't eat the crap you dish out.

[jas007]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No. That was vile fear mongering. 

Hardly.  Just an illustration of what might happen if people don't perform their job.

 

Look up the concept of "standard of care" in the context of medical malpractice.  If you're a doctor and a plaintiff can prove that you didn't provide medical services that conformed to the standard of care expected, guess what?  It happens every day, by the way.  Law firms make a fortune.  

 

Put it in another context if that helps.  You want the transmission rebuilt on your car.  Or you hire a contractor to install a new roof.  You pay for and you expect those people to do a proper job.  If they don't. how is it somehow a defense if they were busy with other priorities, that, while "productive," had nothing whatever to do with the job you hired them to do? 

[Patong2021]

2 hours ago, Nid_Noi said:

When you pay the insane amount of realty taxes, municipal, state and federal taxes Californians pay each year and you can’t get decent police and fire prevention services you are entitled to some explanations from your local politicians.

 

At least a Texan was smart enough to show how to prevent his Malibu Beach house to be consumed to the ground.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14272575/trash-tycoon-david-steiner-reveals-malibu-house-survived-la-fires.html?ito=email_share_article-floatingBar

 

He applied the recommended  building construction fire mitigation options. It wasn't because he was a Texan. Rather, the building had a concrete non combustible roof and non combustible side walls without windows exposed to the fire. There were no ornamental flammable hedges like cedar or Juniper.

 

The fire and police protection is quite good in Orange County, as are Ventura and San Diego Counties. They also have. low  crime rates that are the envy of much of the USA.

You shouldn't single out  Californi for public safety issues because  multiple Republican states are in much, much worse shape. TN, LA, AR, AK.  California is rated as the 2nd best state for fire safety in the USA.  Look up the rating.

 

You are just looking to bash a state that drives the US economy, contributes 14% of the GDP and leads the nation in environmental responsibility.

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Sorry, I don't eat the crap you dish out.

Ditto. Aloha.

[illisdean]

Biden, in a brain addled reminder of his status as a clown, Biden tells Kamala to "fire away" during an LA wildfire briefing just days after he announced the birth of his great-grandson in the middle of a Los Angeles wildfires briefing. 

Just what the victims of the LA wildfires need to hear.

 

 

 

[TedG]

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

California is rated as the 2nd best state for fire safety in the USA.  Look up the rating.

 

 

 

That's a good thing to brag about right now.   

[illisdean]

On 1/10/2025 at 1:09 AM, Patong2021 said:

There hasn't been anything done by the state in years.

Exactly, nothings been done to mitigate fire risks just as Trump tried to explain to the feckless governor on more than one occasion.

 Trump has vision and more people should listen to him on serious matters such as wildfires in fire ravaged CA. Democrats are block-heads with serious woke mind virus impairment. Trump will sort it out for them. They have faith in him.

 

“We remember well your previous considerable commitment to Los Angeles County in one of our darkest moments and hope you will accept this invitation to stand with our people again as our President.”

 

 

Letter to Trump

 

 

[TedG]

As fires destroy parts of LA, California lawmakers start special session to prepare for Donald Trump

 

California lawmakers in Sacramento officially began a special legislative session to prepare the state for President-elect Donald Trump.

Thursday marked the first regular floor session for state lawmakers since the fires began. Those fires are expected to leave Southern California with one of, if not the, most expensive catastrophes in U.S. History. The damage also raises questions about California's future with the property insurance market, which has been hesitant or refusing to insure residents living in disaster prone parts of the state. 

 

https://www.kcra.com/article/california-special-session-trump-proof-wildfires/63384738

 

=======

This is where the dems in CA are at. 

[Patong2021]

1 hour ago, TedG said:

That's a good thing to brag about right now.   

 

Not bragging but pointing out a fact that addresses the disparaging lies . It is salient now because it shows that  California has done rather well so far with only 11  deaths to date , when one considers the extent  and severity of the fires. Maui had 102 deaths.

This time people listened to the evacuation orders and despite all the crtiticisms of the state and counties, they did a good job of  trying to keep routes open. The critics here love to insult Californians, but they behaved appropriately and helped neighbors and family to escape. Look at what happened in North Carloina when people wouldn't or couldn't  listen to the evacuation warnings - 103 died. Every year when a hurricane hits Florida there are always some idiots who want to sit it out, and many of them die. California has invested in human safety with a resilient warning system. They deserve credit for that.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Nid_Noi said:

When you pay the insane amount of realty taxes, municipal, state and federal taxes Californians pay each year and you can’t get decent police and fire prevention services you are entitled to some explanations from your local politicians.

 

At least a Texan was smart enough to show how to prevent his Malibu Beach house to be consumed to the ground.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14272575/trash-tycoon-david-steiner-reveals-malibu-house-survived-la-fires.html?ito=email_share_article-floatingBar

A "fireproof roof" probably helped, but I'm puzzled that Americans apparently have flammable roofs. I've never seen a roof that wasn't fireproof, but I haven't been to the US. Obviously they do things differently there.

[Hawaiian]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A "fireproof roof" probably helped, but I'm puzzled that Americans apparently have flammable roofs. I've never seen a roof that wasn't fireproof, but I haven't been to the US. Obviously they do things differently there.

There are all types of roofing in the U.S.  Wood shingles and shakes are popular in some parts of the country.  They are very flammable unless treated with a fire retardant.  Same thing with old houses with asphalt shingles. Think tar paper shacks. If you like the looks of a "shingled" roof,  ceramic tile and slate are much, much better options.

Then there are various types of metal roofs in various patterns.  Most common are corrugated and standing seam.

As a general contractor in Hawaii I built homes with most of what I listed, except for slate.

 

[RubenRemus]

On 1/10/2025 at 1:11 PM, John Drake said:

 

I'm inclined to agree with your suspicions, and I'm seeing all sorts of claims on X about foreign gangs setting fires and then looting. I just want some agency that is credible to lay out the scenario.

X: source of all knowledge. This reminds me of "They're eating the cats! They're eating the dogs!"

Without any real evidence all you're doing is the spadework for those in power who want to divide us. 

[RubenRemus]

20 hours ago, Nid_Noi said:

When you pay the insane amount of realty taxes, municipal, state and federal taxes Californians pay each year and you can’t get decent police and fire prevention services you are entitled to some explanations from your local politicians.

 

At least a Texan was smart enough to show how to prevent his Malibu Beach house to be consumed to the ground.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14272575/trash-tycoon-david-steiner-reveals-malibu-house-survived-la-fires.html?ito=email_share_article-floatingBar

So what? Here are photos of houses that Texans lost in recent hurricanes. Now things are even, I guess. 

[RubenRemus]

17 hours ago, jas007 said:

Of course they're "productive" is a certain sense, but obviously can be counterproductive on balance, if the end result is the breakdown of the system because core duties were ignored.  How is that so hard to understand?  

 

Imagine you're in a hospital for open heart surgery.  During your surgery, an entire team is there.  The surgeon, the anesthesiologists, the nurses. each with their own function. Each plays a critical role. And of course, you can rightly expect that the hospital's back-up electric generators will work in case of a power outage.  Your life depends on an entire team, all attending to their jobs.  

 

Your surgery is botched and you die.  Reason?  Maybe the anesthesiologist was daydreaming about some DEI project.  Or maybe, it was the surgeon, or both.  Or the nurse failed in some core aspect of her job for a similar reason. You're dead because people weren't performing their core functions.  Get it? There are certain basics.  Forget those, and you're not doing your job.  

Please get more rest. 

[uncletiger]

A very interesting development:

 

While everyone has been focused on the fires in California, Border Patrol has begun the process of deporting illegal immigrants throughout CA.

 

They have started in Kern County, but have plans to extend the operation to other areas throughout the state.

 

https://calmatters.org/economy/2025/01/kern-county-immigration-sweep/

 

The agriculture industry in CA is in turmoil. According to the above article, oranges are unpicked and will eventually start rotting on the trees. While I would never suggest the arsonists "climate change" who set the fires in Los Angeles were coordinating with a larger plan by the government, (because that would be a conspiracy theory and I know how much people on this forum eschew conspiracy theories), let me just say it is very convenient timing. Almost as if one event was designed to give cover for the other. None of the wealthy, Hollywood elite are concerned about the status of the illegal aliens right now, as their multi million dollar mansions are under threat, and the fires have kept this completely out of the news cycle. So much for California as a sanctuary state. An operation of this scale must have been planned for months. Convenient that the US Border Patrol magically picked the perfect time to begin these operations.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, uncletiger said:

The agriculture industry in CA is in turmoil. According to the above article, oranges are unpicked and will eventually start rotting on the trees.

Perhaps if they paid decent wages they'd get workers to pick the oranges. Far as I can tell it's greedy people that want to exploit illegals that are the problem.

They could do like NZ and allow temporary work permits to foreigners to come and pick. We get them from all over, but loads of South Americans, Pacific Islanders and Indians. Is the US incapable of similar?

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps if they paid decent wages they'd get workers to pick the oranges. Far as I can tell it's greedy people that want to exploit illegals that are the problem.

They could do like NZ and allow temporary work permits to foreigners to come and pick. We get them from all over, but loads of South Americans, Pacific Islanders and Indians. Is the US incapable of similar?

Let them rot. 

[johnnybangkok]

On 1/12/2025 at 9:14 PM, Patong2021 said:

 

Not bragging but pointing out a fact that addresses the disparaging lies . It is salient now because it shows that  California has done rather well so far with only 11  deaths to date , when one considers the extent  and severity of the fires. Maui had 102 deaths.

This time people listened to the evacuation orders and despite all the crtiticisms of the state and counties, they did a good job of  trying to keep routes open. The critics here love to insult Californians, but they behaved appropriately and helped neighbors and family to escape. Look at what happened in North Carloina when people wouldn't or couldn't  listen to the evacuation warnings - 103 died. Every year when a hurricane hits Florida there are always some idiots who want to sit it out, and many of them die. California has invested in human safety with a resilient warning system. They deserve credit for that.

Just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your contributions to this thread. You have dilligently and intelligently countered all of the fear mongering, finger pointing and downright lies from the MAGA crowd (who as usual, get their 'news' from X and highly biased media sources) and educated many of us on the way.

 

Thanks again and keep up the excellent work!

[riclag]

On 1/12/2025 at 2:05 PM, Hawaiian said:

Notice I said influence, not power or authority.  He seems able to wield his influence on things like illegal immigration, leniency on criminals, LGBTQ rights and other measures that have cost the state billions of dollars in nonproductive (for lack of a better word) programs.

 

Very strong influences!

Thats how it is the political world!

They have experts and legal advisors 

at there beckoned call ready to research how to weasel around loop holes in existing laws , to favor their interests, donors and their ideology!

 

[Hawaiian]

On 1/12/2025 at 4:14 AM, Patong2021 said:

 

Not bragging but pointing out a fact that addresses the disparaging lies . It is salient now because it shows that  California has done rather well so far with only 11  deaths to date , when one considers the extent  and severity of the fires. Maui had 102 deaths.

This time people listened to the evacuation orders and despite all the crtiticisms of the state and counties, they did a good job of  trying to keep routes open. The critics here love to insult Californians, but they behaved appropriately and helped neighbors and family to escape. Look at what happened in North Carloina when people wouldn't or couldn't  listen to the evacuation warnings - 103 died. Every year when a hurricane hits Florida there are always some idiots who want to sit it out, and many of them die. California has invested in human safety with a resilient warning system. They deserve credit for that.

Lahaina was a tragedy that did not have to happen.  Sheer incompetence by local authorities.   https://www.bbcnews.com/news/world-us-canada-67382947

[riclag]

On 1/12/2025 at 7:52 PM, TedG said:

As fires destroy parts of LA, California lawmakers start special session to prepare for Donald Trump

 

 

California lawmakers in Sacramento officially began a special legislative session to prepare the state for President-elect Donald Trump.

Thursday marked the first regular floor session for state lawmakers since the fires began. Those fires are expected to leave Southern California with one of, if not the, most expensive catastrophes in U.S. History. The damage also raises questions about California's future with the property insurance market, which has been hesitant or refusing to insure residents living in disaster prone parts of the state. 

 

https://www.kcra.com/article/california-special-session-trump-proof-wildfires/63384738

 

=======

This is where the dems in CA are at. 

Priorities :thwart The new administration from researching how 

California has mismanaged resources.

 

The first-of-its-kind agreement!

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/13/newsom-california-democrats-trump-legal-fights-00197784

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

Priorities :thwart The new administration from researching how 

California has mismanaged resources.

 

The first-of-its-kind agreement!

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/13/newsom-california-democrats-trump-legal-fights-00197784

The $50M probably came out of the Cal Fire budget. 

[riclag]

Santa ana winds have been around for as long as i remember!

They have been a curse to the brush laden hills & canyons.

 As long as people mismanaged controls of fire prevention & water containment such as Cal dems have for decades, chaos ensues.

 

 

Its the people in control  and their lack of accountability.

 

 

 

[John Drake]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps if they paid decent wages they'd get workers to pick the oranges. Far as I can tell it's greedy people that want to exploit illegals that are the problem.

They could do like NZ and allow temporary work permits to foreigners to come and pick. We get them from all over, but loads of South Americans, Pacific Islanders and Indians. Is the US incapable of similar?

 

Back in the US, I used to get oranges from Australia at very good prices. Always wondered how this managed to happen, without any illegals to pick their crops.

[jimmybcool]

I woke up wondering (yeah I'm weird like that) about insurance claims for this fire.  What if one was escaping the fire, got blocked and to leave their car on the road.  Then police/fire come along and bash the car off the road destroying it.  What do they claim?  Is it covered by random fire on the road (homeowners cover when miles from home?) or accident?  Not like these people don't already have massive problems.

 

And note many lost their jobs as the business they worked at is gone.  And rebuilding won't be fast.  There will be a shortage of labor and materials for years.  I have massive sympathy for these folks. 

Quote

 

 

[John Drake]

51 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

I woke up wondering (yeah I'm weird like that) about insurance claims for this fire.  What if one was escaping the fire, got blocked and to leave their car on the road.  Then police/fire come along and bash the car off the road destroying it.  What do they claim?  Is it covered by random fire on the road (homeowners cover when miles from home?) or accident?  Not like these people don't already have massive problems.

 

And note many lost their jobs as the business they worked at is gone.  And rebuilding won't be fast.  There will be a shortage of labor and materials for years.  I have massive sympathy for these folks. 

 

 

How many of the active insurers in LA are still going to be in business after this?