what money is taxed 2024 ?

[Jingthing]

57 minutes ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

I call a Non-Immigrant O visa exactly what it is - a Non-Immigrant O visa. It is most certainly NOT a visa based on retirement, marriage, or anything else. It’s a Non-Immigrant O visa, PERIOD!

 

Just because 'everyone uses that term' doesn't make it correct. As the saying goes, 'Where populists rule, incompetence often follows.

 

Next you'll be claiming that a 'marriage visa' exists too, LOL.

I get what you're saying but if you start in Thailand with a conversion to a 90 day O visa as the first step before the retirement extension, it's clear enough that the purpose you're doing that is ... wait for it ... RETIREMENT.

So it's kind of splitting hairs.

Of course it's true a generic O visa really isn't technically a retirement visa as it is also used for various non retirement purposes.

 

[Jingthing]

On 1/16/2025 at 6:22 AM, NanLaew said:

 

It is if you have a relatively complex income 'portfolio' but decide to do DIY accountancy rather than hire a professional accountant and/or tax adviser where your income streams are nested.

I have two kinds of income in the account. One accessable. One not. Mixed. Also used for spending. So it's a bit of a mess but I can't see hiring an accountant for one personal bank account. The "advisors" will all tell you to separate such sources into different accounts. Not practical for me and assume many others, so what I'm getting at is there is often more to record keeping than just having raw bank statements. My understanding is that "first in first out" is acceptable to the Thai tax office.

[jesimps]

On 1/15/2025 at 8:14 AM, anrcaccount said:

 

 

A theoretical policy "fact" that differs from the actual practice is really, no fact or policy.

 

Multiple members have reported now that the status quo remains - TRD isn't interested in taxing foreigners remitted income.

From personal experience with Jomtien Tax Office, I second that. By the way, it would be helpful on these threads if posters would mention which tax office their successes/failures occurred.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, jesimps said:

From personal experience with Jomtien Tax Office, I second that. By the way, it would be helpful on these threads if posters would mention which tax office their successes/failures occurred.

Yes as I've remarked numerous times.

There is the technical stuff which you can usually determine such as what is accessable income and what is not.

And then there is the ENFORCEMENT part.

If they aren't enforcing, the technical stuff wouldn't really matter.

But heck, they could later.

[Mark Hopkins]

If all Expats follow the "do nothing untill the Government makes clear instructions regarding the situation of  Thai residents who are not working (retired?) in the Kingdom".  The solidarity will go a long way towards ensuring that it is the norm and not the exception. Resulting in the probability of a far more congenial outcome for all concerned.

Also, as a further note, overseas income, if requested, would be on a voluntary basis unless Thailand has an exchange agreement with your originating county of residency.

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

On 1/15/2025 at 8:14 AM, anrcaccount said:

 

 

A theoretical policy "fact" that differs from the actual practice is really, no fact or policy.

 

Multiple members have reported now that the status quo remains - TRD isn't interested in taxing foreigners remitted income.

From personal experience with Jomtien Tax Office, I second that. By the way, it would be helpful on these threads if posters would mention which tax office their successes/failures occurred.

 

Success = being sent home with nothing after visiting the tax office. 

 

Guaranteed Success =  Don't go to the tax office.  Keep doing what the vast majority have done for many years, have nothing to do with TRD, unless you are working or earning income sourced in Thailand. 

 

 

[jesimps]

On 1/15/2025 at 12:11 PM, jwest10 said:

 

 

I know you not a vank but can not get hold of then scb code x1 what does that mean on a transaction

The SCB code "X1" on a transaction typically indicates a banking transfer that does not use a Transfer Deposit or Withdrawal Nobook. It doesn't necessarily mean it was an overseas transfer. If you need more specific details about the transaction, it might be best to contact your bank directly.

Is there anything else I can help you with?

 

bank

It sounds like you're looking for information about banks. Whether you need help understanding a transaction, finding the best bank for your needs, or learning about banking services, I'm here to assist. What specific information are you looking for?

yes a code x1 on scb bank in Thailand

The code "X1" on a transaction with Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) in Thailand typically indicates a banking transfer that does not use a Transfer Deposit or Withdrawal Nobook. It doesn't necessarily mean it was an overseas transfer. If you need more specific details about the transaction, it might be best to contact SCB directly.

Is there anything else I can assist you with?

 

thanks

You're welcome! If you have any other questions or need further assistance, feel free to ask. I'm here to help!

DTA agreements thailand and UK state pension is exempt and not talking of civil serice pension and no difference

The Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the UK provides guidelines on how pensions are taxed to avoid double taxation. Here's a brief overview:

1. UK State Pension: Generally, the UK State Pension is not considered a government pension and is usually covered under the Pensions Article of the DTA. This means it is typically only taxable in the country of the recipient's residence, which would be Thailand if you are a tax resident there2.

2. Remittance Basis: Thailand operates on a remittance basis for foreign income. This means that foreign-sourced income, including pensions, is only taxable in Thailand if it is brought into the country during the year it is earned3.

3. Tax Credits: The DTA allows for tax credits to be claimed for taxes paid in the UK on pensions. However, pensions remitted to Thailand are still considered taxable in Thailand, subject to these tax credits.

If you have specific questions about your situation, it might be best to consult with a tax professional who can provide advice tailored to your circumstances.

Is there anything else you'd like to know?

 

 

Even id DWP credit ones Thai bank account each month and an x1 code whatever that means

If the UK Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) credits your Thai bank account directly each month, it simplifies things for you. The "X1" code on your Siam Commercial Bank (SCB) transaction typically indicates a banking transfer that does not use a Transfer Deposit or Withdrawal Nobook. This code does not necessarily mean it was an overseas transfer.

In terms of taxation, if your UK State Pension is paid directly into your Thai bank account, it is generally considered non-assessable income in Thailand and does not need to be declared on your Thai income tax form. This is because it is considered a "frozen" pension and is not accessible income in Thailand.

If you have any more questions or need further assistance, feel free to ask!

 

All this and the other thousands of posts giving advice on here is irrelevant as long as tax offices are advising that farang do not have to file unless they work here and refuse to issue a TIN. Have a contingency plan by all means, but unless something concrete is published BY THE TRD, I reckon any foreigner is wasting his time visiting a local  tax office. It certainly was the case personally.

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I get what you're saying but if you start in Thailand with a conversion to a 90 day O visa as the first step before the retirement extension, it's clear enough that the purpose you're doing that is ... wait for it ... RETIREMENT.

So it's kind of splitting hairs.

Of course it's true a generic O visa really isn't technically a retirement visa as it is also used for various non retirement purposes.

 

I agree it's nit-picking. Most conveniently refer to it as "Retirement Visa".

[oldcpu]

4 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

 

 

 

 

https://thaiconsulatela.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-type-o-retirement

 

I think it important not to call such just a "retirement visa, but either use the full name "type O retirement" which the consolate did, or if one prefers call it a "type O".

 

The reason is one can stay in Thailand for reason of retirement with different Visas. Stating just "retirement visa" is highly ambigous as that term could mean very different Visas.

[kimothai]

On 1/14/2025 at 6:02 PM, Carver2 said:

HI   Talked to Lamphun Revenue Dept. and also Chiang Mai Revenue Dept. When I asked about taxation of foreign income I was told that retirees don't pay tax only people that work in Thailand or have income from Thailand  have to pay income tax . Has anyone else received a similar response from the revenue dept. ?

Hats off to this poster who took the time to go to Revenue Dept. to get a definitive answer.  Representatives (Thai citizens) of the Revenue Dept. are the only people qualified and authorized to interpret the Thai Tax Law.  This whole Thai tax hysteria is just that - hysteria.   There has been way too many so called tax representatives telling people (retired expats) to go get a TIN or do this or that and it all boils down to fear mongering so they can profit from expat's fear.  Nobody on this forum (including self) is authorized to give Thai tax advice.  You only get opinions here.  The info received from the Revenue Dept is not an opinion, it's the rule of law "straight from the horse's mouth" as some like to say.  Just my opinion.

[Surasak]

No wish to put a stick in the pot and stir, but one point appears to be missing here, re info from different TRDs. We have all had the experience at different Immigration offices. NO TWO ARE THE SAME, or very rarely! Shouldn't we be treating info from the TRD offices with the same caution?

[alanrchase]

14 minutes ago, kimothai said:

Hats off to this poster who took the time to go to Revenue Dept. to get a definitive answer.  Representatives (Thai citizens) of the Revenue Dept. are the only people qualified and authorized to interpret the Thai Tax Law.  This whole Thai tax hysteria is just that - hysteria.   There has been way too many so called tax representatives telling people (retired expats) to go get a TIN or do this or that and it all boils down to fear mongering so they can profit from expat's fear.  Nobody on this forum (including self) is authorized to give Thai tax advice.  You only get opinions here.  The info received from the Revenue Dept is not an opinion, it's the rule of law "straight from the horse's mouth" as some like to say.  Just my opinion.

"Definitive answer"? Is it the same as someone posting the answer to a question asked at their local immigration office and everyone accepting that that is the definitive answer for every immigration office and reflects what immigration orders dictate? People seem to get different answers from different officers at the same immigration office so why take one or two tax offices as gospel? Everyone's situation regarding tax status is slightly different. I won't be taking any advice from people who have no idea what my individual situation is. 

[oldcpu]

On 1/15/2025 at 9:09 PM, The Cyclist said:

 

And part of that is having Foreign Income declared, to ensure tax compliance and no engagement in tax evasion.

 

Are you certain you are not confusing the requirement to provide a foreign TIN with the requirement to provide foreign income ( ie income from a different jurisdiction of the residents country).

 

Do you care to show your official reference for this alleged requirement to report all foreignincome?  ( and not someone's opinion in the press nor opinion at an arguably misinformed tax advisor brief)? I can find the TIN submission requirement but I find nothing about all foreign income requirement reporting by CRS. I only find reference to income from the reporting country jurisdiction, and even that has exclusion caveats. 

 

Also, note for example, per Canadian government documents,  Canada is not required to provide to CRS account information on retirement plan accounts  such as RRSP nor RRIF.  Despite the large reach of CRS, it doesn't have legal access to information on all accounts from which income is derived.

 

Pardon me for being skeptical, but if there are only opinions with no official documents to support one's statement,  in this day and age of fake news I will remain skeptical.

[The Cyclist]

4 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Are you certain you are not confusing the requirement to provide a foreign TIN with the requirement to provide foreign income

 

I can safely say, that up to this point in time, I have never gave my foreign TIN ( National Insurance Number ) to any entity in Thailand.

 

3 X Thai bank accounts opened over a decade ago with only a passport, rental agreement and some cash.

 

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Do you care to show your official reference for this alleged requirement to report all foreignincome?

 

I dont have an official reference, and I am not going hunting through the OECD website looking for one. Every other CRS Country requires foreign income to be declared, certainly the UK, Aus, NZ, Canada.

 

And as the EOCD set the rules for CRS, it would be logical that it would be applied to all Countries that are in CRS.

[DrJack54]

Rather than clean up this thread with many posts debating terms such as "retirement Visa" etc...

Further off topic posts removed.

The thread concerns taxation. 

[oldcpu]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

I can safely say, that up to this point in time,very other CRS Country requires foreign income to be declared, certainly the UK, Aus, NZ, Canada.

 

 

Apologies,  but if you have no official reference then this is just an opinion of yours.

 

I have no qualms about providing my tax TINs ( German & Canadian), and I have done so. I stay legal.

 

But I seriously dislike misinformation or opinions put out as fact, even if I am not affected.

[The Cyclist]

31 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Apologies,  but if you have no official reference then this is just an opinion of yours.

 

There is nothing ' Just an opinion ' about having to declare Foreign income in the UK, Canada, Aus, or NZ. That is a fact.

 

If I could be bothered, I would look into the other major CRS Countries and see if they are the same. 

 

33 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I have no qualms about providing my tax TINs ( German & Canadian), and I have done so. I stay legal.

 

Like you, I couldn't really care less either. I am legal, my remitted income is legal.

 

37 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

But I seriously dislike misinformation or opinions put out as fact, even if I am not affected.

 

I just happen to know a bit about International Agreements, and it usually means all Countries doing the same thing, or chaos ensues within the group, especially when Countries are doing different things.

 

Therefore, I totally expect Thailand to also adopt reporting / declaring of foreign income, and in most Jurisdictions, that falls on the tax office ( by whatever local name, it might be known as )

 

You can also add Germany to the Countries where you also have to declare your foreign income.

 

And France.

 

But feel free to go through the whole list of CRS Countries.

[oldcpu]

19 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

There is nothing ' Just an opinion ' about having to declare Foreign income in the UK, Canada, Aus, or NZ. That is a fact.

 

I don't dispute Canada and for that matter Germany require foreign income to be declared.

 

What I dispute is your unsubstantiated (ie opinion) claim that reporting all foreign income is a CRS requirement.

 

You can't point to a CRS requirement.

 

This is simply an extrapolation by yourself , with no OECD article on CRS to backup your extrapolation - meaning this is no more than an opinion of yours.

 

[scorecard]

On 1/15/2025 at 11:48 AM, TigerandDog said:

Your comment, in a round about way, confirms somewhat my post Tuesday about my experience lodging my 2024 Thai tax return. It is relevant to the Australia/Thai DTA.

 

My provincial TRD (CM) confirmed verbally with my District TRD that Govt pensions, and in the case of aussies receiving the aged pension, that they are not assessable. Only private pensions are assessable. The TRD deems the aussie aged pension to be a social security payment, which it actually is, and their advice was that under Thai tax law social security payments are not assessable and therefore they are tax free.

TRD's in other provinces may interpret this differently, but even though I produced the figures for my aged pension, on the off chance I had to declare them, I was advised that it wasn't a requirement.

 

quote:

 

My provincial TRD (CM) confirmed verbally with my District TRD that Govt pensions, and in the case of aussies receiving the aged pension, that they are not assessable

 

 

Very interesting for Aussies living in CM (me).

 

[oldcpu]

47 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

I just happen to know a bit about International Agreements, and it usually means all Countries doing the same thing, or chaos ensues within the group, especially when Countries are doing different things.

 

Therefore, I totally expect Thailand to also adopt reporting / declaring of foreign income, and in most Jurisdictions, that falls on the tax office ( by whatever local name, it might be known as )

 

 

Thailand may indeed at sometime require foreign income to be reported, but if it does my opinion is that it will NOT be due to CRS.

 

Here is a Revenue Thailand document, that provides information relevant to the Thailand implementation to follow CRS.

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf

 

Its pretty clear from that document that most of what CRS is trying to do is to minimize tax avoidance by businesses, as the details relevant to individuals is significantly less (although still relevant to individuals to minimize individual tax avoidance).  

 

Nowhere thou, in the Thailand RD document, does it state that information on foreign income will be collected by Thailand and provided to the CRS.

 

Further, that Thai RD document also describes "Non reporting FI (Financial Institution)" which are not obligated to provide information on specific types of accounts to CRS.  It even goes further in an Appendix to note neither retirement nor pension accounts nor 'non-retirement tax favoured' accounts need be reported (they are  excluded from CRS reporting).

 

Which infers such pension income, governed by the Thai government, need not be provided to CRS. I read the same with regard to Canada which I already noted.  The logic here is that these (and their income) are already government monitored and hence CRS monitoring is NOT required.

 

This just further confirms that opinions that state ALL global / foreign income must be reported to CRS ARE not substantiated, and its just an opinion, and further, possibly a fallacious opinion.

 

Note thou, that TINs (tax information numbers) must be provided to OECD via CRS, but it is then up to CRS to ask for more information on income, if they wish.  However they (CRS) may get NO INFORMATION on pensions and such even IF they (CRS) request such.

 

Of interest in the Thailand document are the details where Thailand needs to provide the TIN information to CRS, where guidance is given to Financial Institutions on how they are to go about such.

 

Don't get me wrong, ...I fully believe to follow tax laws in this world. 

 

Having typed that, I find NOTHING (in capital letters deliberately) to prove that OECD for the CRS requires all member countries to report the global (foreign plus local) income of their tax residents.

 

Rather I find the opposite, where some resident accounts are even excluded from reporting to CRS.

.

[kimothai]

1 hour ago, alanrchase said:

"Definitive answer"? Is it the same as someone posting the answer to a question asked at their local immigration office and everyone accepting that that is the definitive answer for every immigration office and reflects what immigration orders dictate? People seem to get different answers from different officers at the same immigration office so why take one or two tax offices as gospel? Everyone's situation regarding tax status is slightly different. I won't be taking any advice from people who have no idea what my individual situation is. 

I think the answer was very clear but if you choose not to believe it or compare it to the ambiguity of the Immigration Office that's your right.  We'll just have to agree to disagree but your correct when you say everyone has a different situation.

[alanrchase]

4 minutes ago, kimothai said:

I think the answer was very clear but if you choose not to believe it or compare it to the ambiguity of the Immigration Office that's your right.  We'll just have to agree to disagree but your correct when you say everyone has a different situation.

An example, a poster said he needed a CoR to get his TIN, my office didn't require a CoR to issue my TIN, I have no yellow book or pink card. So tax offices seem to have different requirements just like immigration offices. Wouldn't be the first time a government office was unaware of new procedures. 

[zlodnick]

My wife receives Thai old age pension, (7,200 bt per year, Is that taxable income?

[thaibreaker]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

The reason is one can stay in Thailand for reason of retirement with different Visas. Stating just "retirement visa" is highly ambigous as that term could mean very different Visas.

No it can't. A visa based on retirement has specific requirements, the 800k in bank or the 65k income method. No other visas refer to retirement visa, by the definition of Thai Immigration.

Other visas have different names.

 

Of course you can retire on a LTR visa, on a privilege visa or such, but those are not by definition a retirement visa.

 

Sorry, DrJack, didn't see your post before posting mine..

[OneManShow]

On 1/15/2025 at 1:22 PM, Jingthing said:

I will get a TIN only when I really need one. 

TIN will be needed when you want to get your CD anccount interest tax that is "withholding" by bank as "Income tax". 
Perhaps you won't need one.

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, OneManShow said:

TIN will be needed when you want to get your CD anccount interest tax that is "withholding" by bank as "Income tax". 
Perhaps you won't need one.

Not worth the bother unless a lot of money.

[jensmann]

On 1/14/2025 at 6:02 PM, Carver2 said:

HI   Talked to Lamphun Revenue Dept. and also Chiang Mai Revenue Dept. When I asked about taxation of foreign income I was told that retirees don't pay tax only people that work in Thailand or have income from Thailand  have to pay income tax . Has anyone else received a similar response from the revenue dept. ?

Paid my share of tax in Udon on my pension because of DTA with Germany...

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, jensmann said:

Paid my share of tax in Udon on my pension because of DTA with Germany...

Can you elaborate on your experience? 

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, zlodnick said:

My wife receives Thai old age pension, (7,200 bt per year, Is that taxable income?

Probably not, but I would be trading her in anyway. 

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, alanrchase said:

An example, a poster said he needed a CoR to get his TIN, my office didn't require a CoR to issue my TIN, I have no yellow book or pink card. So tax offices seem to have different requirements just like immigration offices. Wouldn't be the first time a government office was unaware of new procedures. 

Tax is a federal or country wide policy, the same as immigration.  We all know immigration is manipulated across Thailand, but tax might be a different thing. 

 

I'm not sure if this policy will allow for provincial "discretion."