400.000 Baht disappeared, a story of BKK Bank, SCB and Advice IT

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

This issue can be easily avoided by using a service provider like Wise, which offers additional digital debit cards for free, or

Wise debit cards (digital or physical) are only available to those using a UK address.

If you use a Thai address, the digital option is blanked out on the app.

[Carsten07]

26 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

 

Lower daily transfer limits could have clearly prevented this type of fraud, as others have already pointed out. Additionally, your current setup isn’t ideal for ensuring your wife has access to funds in the event of your death. You should consider setting up a separate legal structure for that, as your current arrangement increases your exposure to fraud, as you’ve unfortunately discovered.

 

A better general solution is to set up two bank accounts in Thailand at different banks. Use one account solely for savings. This account should have no ATM card, and the daily transfer limits should be set to zero. This is where you store the bulk of your money. UOB is a great option for this purpose because their banking security is stronger than that of most local banks. They also offer free life insurance and a guaranteed payout to your wife in the event of accidental death. Use the second account for daily spending, which can be with BBL, SCB, KBank, or any bank you prefer.

 

Once a month, transfer the amount needed for daily living expenses from the main savings account to the spending account. For added protection, set the daily transfer limit, ATM withdrawal limit, and debit card payment limit on the spending account as low as possible to minimize potential losses in case of fraud.

 

By implementing this system, even if the spending account is compromised, the financial impact will be minimal, and the main savings account will remain secure, especially if you use UOB. These precautions will make it significantly harder to fall victim to the type of fraud you experienced.

 

UOB will be following the same rules as any other bank, i don't think they are better or safer. No.

 

Should i drop dead the plan was to transfer the 400K for Family Visa straight to another account, Logically but somehow a bit illegal. Who Cares? You?

 

Whatever, here we have a case of not even Fraud, Advice received a certain amount of money. Nothing illegal here

 

But after announcing it was stolen money from a hack (?) it slowly turns into completely illegal funds which should be returned asap, wouldn't you agree?!

[RSD1]

14 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

 

 

So, you have to go the bank every month in order to do a manual transfer?

No thanks.

Not at all. Once a month login to the main savings account online. Temporarily set the transfer limit to the amount necessary to make the transfer. After you make the transfer to your other savings account, then set the transfer limit back to zero and log out. Then repeat the same the next month. Takes less than 5 minutes total. But much added security.

[RSD1]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Wise debit cards (digital or physical) are only available to those using a UK address.

If you use a Thai address, the digital option is blanked out on the app.

Correct, Wise does not provide debit cards to people with an address on their Wise account in Thailand. But they do offer it to people with an address on their account in most Western countries. They will also issue debit cards to people in Asia if you have an address in Japan, Singapore or the Philippines. 

[Carsten07]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

In early 2023 they limited phone app transfers to 50kbht/day for all foreigner accounts, unless you changed that at your branch.

Online, atm and in person transfers are different.

 

The op says internet banking, which has no such restriction.

I didn't read the op carefully enough, so my bad.

No problem, i thought Internet Banking was much safer than the App on the phone, but maybe it is not.

 

Inside a bank, the clerk swipes his card and can do any transaction, without pictures or limits.

I bought a house and transferred 6.8 Mio just like that, Passport was needed but nothing else.

 

Here we are at the culprit. Blaming someone at BKK Bank is dangerous but, from my understanding, this is how it happened. How else?! My PC was not hacked, all security is in place. This will end up as a scandal on TV and at Bangkok Post.

Was not the first time.

[RSD1]

15 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

UOB will be following the same rules as any other bank, i don't think they are better or safer. No.

They are safer on account access, possible security breaches and fraud. 
 

15 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

Should i drop dead the plan was to transfer the 400K for Family Visa straight to another account, Logically but somehow a bit illegal. Who Cares? You?

 

Nope, don't care at all. Do whatever you like. But your structure is flawed and problematic as you just discovered. 
 

15 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

Whatever, here we have a case of not even Fraud, Advice received a certain amount of money. Nothing illegal here

If money went from your account to their account, you didn't authorize it, and it wasn't a computer glitch, then that's definitely fraud. 
 

15 minutes ago, Carsten07 said:

But after announcing it was stolen money from a hack (?) it slowly turns into completely illegal funds which should be returned asap, wouldn't you agree?!

As an outsider looking in, and based just on the information that you provided then, yes, I guess I would agree. But you are only able to provide one side of the full story. So without seeing the details and report from a full legal investigation, then I can't really conclude anything with any certainty. 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

My AliExpress account was hacked. I had a stored credit card. The hacker ordered goods and changed the delivery address to Moldova. 

Try to get a credit card that has an app on your phone that allows you to block the card when not in use.

 

I am looking for one now. 

 

[RSD1]

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Try to get a credit card that has an app on your phone that allows you to block the card when not in use.

 

I am looking for one now. 

 

Wise or PayPal if you are interested in Fintech companies. Many banks in the USA offer the function too, Chase, Citibank, etc. Also, Privacy.com offers it too, they even issue one time use digital debit cards for online purchases, but you must have a US checking account linked up to be able to use Privacy.com

[suzannegoh]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The only debit card I have registered online is with Lazada.

 

Should I be worried?

Safer to use a credit card than a debit card.

[suzannegoh]

15 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Try to get a credit card that has an app on your phone that allows you to block the card when not in use.

 

I am looking for one now. 

 

Chase cards can be locked and unlocked with their app.   Just one example.

[norsurin]

16 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Wise debit cards (digital or physical) are only available to those using a UK address.

If you use a Thai address, the digital option is blanked out on the app.

Wrong..i have a wise card and its digital and physical.. Wise send it to my registered adress in Norway.

I get 2 cards because i lost one and i just ordered a new card that arrived after a week.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, norsurin said:

Wrong..i have a wise card and its digital and physical.. Wise send it to my registered adress in Norway.

I get 2 cards because i lost one and i just ordered a new card that arrived after a week.

Topic about expats resident in Thailand.

[fittobethaied]

19 hours ago, Carsten07 said:

I set the limit up to 500K because when i die my wife can get the money via transfer or ATM.

Online banking requires no Photo and limits can be set at will.

 

I'm with Bangkok Bank online, and regardless of what daily limit you set for yourself, they will always require a photo to process any transfer over 50K if you are using the app on your phone. Using a browser on your computer will not require such a photo. 

[placnx]

18 hours ago, Carsten07 said:

No problem, i thought Internet Banking was much safer than the App on the phone, but maybe it is not.

 

Inside a bank, the clerk swipes his card and can do any transaction, without pictures or limits.

I bought a house and transferred 6.8 Mio just like that, Passport was needed but nothing else.

 

Here we are at the culprit. Blaming someone at BKK Bank is dangerous but, from my understanding, this is how it happened. How else?! My PC was not hacked, all security is in place. This will end up as a scandal on TV and at Bangkok Post.

Was not the first time.

My US card was recently compromised. I have used it for some recurring charges in the US, but here only in ATMs. So I checked whether there was any way my card details could have been captured here.

 

I use Bitdefender since last year when Kaspersky was outlawed in the US. I have learned that there are vulnerabilities, nonetheless.

1) Using older wireless devices such as keyboards and mice with Bluetooth, the transmissions are not encrypted, so someone fairly close by can intercept the data. Some current wireless devices, from Logitech for example. They use their own Logi Bolt dongle to send encrypted signals. Google "Mousejack".

2) Another danger is through a fake CAPTCHA popup where you click to confirm that you are a human. There is not the usual display of a photo divided in 9 sections where you have to identify a specified item appearing in certain sections. This is called Lumma Stealer.

https://blog.qualys.com/vulnerabilities-threat-research/2024/10/20/unmasking-lumma-stealer-analyzing-deceptive-tactics-with-fake-captcha

Antivirus programs including Bitdefender cannot detect this activity.

 

One solution is using virtual or burner cards as much as possible. Also, avoid storing sensitive data such as passwords in unencrypted files on your computer.

 

Aside from concealed cameras at ATMs, I wonder whether there is any way that bank employees or the authorities can intercept the transmission of chip card details and what details are in the transmission. Does anyone here know? 

[alanrchase]

20 hours ago, Carsten07 said:

 

Well, its digital now but i agree with your comment.

 

What i find hard to believe is that a large company, listed on the stock market, has 340+ Outlet stores refuses to refund stolen money.

There is something ethically wrong in the heads of the responsible persons!

Plus its illegal in Thailand to keep money that arrived by whatever reasons in your account incorrectly.

The police are involved, the money is evidence. They are probably best doing nothing with the money until the investigation is concluded and the police determine where the money should be. 

[save the frogs]

4 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

Chase cards can be locked and unlocked with their app.   Just one example.

Thanks.

 

Also, some banks back home have pre-paid credit cards.

You load up the amount you need, use it, and then re-fill it when you need to make another purchase.

 

[riclag]

5 hours ago, suzannegoh said:

Chase cards can be locked and unlocked with their app.   Just one example.

Is this advisable ?

I think I read its not a good idea to lock your card especially if one doesn’t use it for a extended period.

The card companies might close the account if its been inactive.

Just sayin.

 

Op good luck with my worse fear!

Keep us posted

[LukKrueng]

A bit strange. Usually when hackers get a stolen cc or bank details they'll try low amount first to see that it works, and as most people have lower transaction limits why would they try 400k on first attempt? You might want to check people that are close to you and might know your bank limits.

[bkkniko]

in kasikorn you can do 5mil daily but 2mil per transaction, anyways you can do 2mil,2mil,1mil within minutes.

So yeah, setting a daily limit is important.

[Straight8]

22 hours ago, KannikaP said:

That is illegal until Probate has been sorted out, unless it is a joint account.

Haha, yeah right, TiT,

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, Straight8 said:

Haha, yeah right, TiT,

It's the same in UK as well. 

[DogNo1]

My credit card number was recently stolen and two fraudulent purchases using it were made.  My US bank flagged the charges as questionable.  When I noticed charges as pending on my account, I called the bank.  My card was cancelled and the two charges will be refunded to my account.  My credit card was never out of my hands.  Before those fraudulent charges, I had made an online purchase to iHerb when my VPN wasn’t running.  IHerb wouldn’t complete the purchase. I was logged into my hotel Internet and believe that the card number was stolen through the hotel network at that time.  I might have been asked to verify that I was human but can’t remember for sure. I now verify that my VPN is active before I do any financial business on my iPad.