Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Wyabcp]

On 1/16/2025 at 3:49 AM, Briggsy said:

In the UK, there is no necessity to complete a tax return unless you yourself have registered for self-assessment. Examples of those who register for self-assessment are the self-employed with a turnover of at least £1000 per year or high earners with a total income in excess of £100,000.

 

Once you have registered for self-assessment, the penalties just pile up if you do not submit a tax return.

 

If you have not registered for self-assessment, nothing happens and you are left alone unless HMRC gain some information that you should have registered for self-assessment or have some untaxed income.

 

Actually more often in the UK, HMRC actively de-register from self-assessment when there is no tax owing and no need for a tax return to reduce administration.

Would it be better to have a self assessment ? so that you can prove what tax is already paid in UK ?

[oldcpu]

18 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Filed online 2023, no documentation requested.  Refund refunded.

 

Filed online 2024, also no documentation needed to file and be approved.  But ten days later received a request for a bank withholding statement. 

 

Apologies - I can't recall and you probably already stated .. but do you currently work in Thailand or have assessable Thai income over the RD tax filing threshold in 2023 and 2024?

 

For the year 2024 tax filing, do you receive year 2024 foreign pension income or other year 2024 foreign income from abroad that you remitted to Thailand? 

 

...  and what does the DTA with Thailand say in regards to Thailand being able to tax that foreign remitted income?  

 

Did you bring any pre-1-Jan-2024 foreign savings into Thailand during 2024? 

 

And if you did remit foreign income into Thailand in 2024 did you assess it as assessable and still manage to find a field on the tax form to deduct it ? (as there is no place to exempt on a tax form that I could find). Or simply legally (IMHO) assess it as non-assessable and hence in such a case the remitted income should not be included in tax calculation (IMHO)?

 

If too private ... no need to answer.  I appreciate that talking about finances can be a sensitive manner.  I am just trying to understand better your tax situation (with both tax filing and tax refunds in some cases).

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Apologies - I can't recall and you probably already stated .. but do you currently work in Thailand or have assessable Thai income over the RD tax filing threshold in 2023 and 2024?

 

For the year 2024 tax filing, do you receive year 2024 foreign pension income or other year 2024 foreign income from abroad that you remitted to Thailand? 

 

...  and what does the DTA with Thailand say in regards to Thailand being able to tax that foreign remitted income?  

 

Did you bring any pre-1-Jan-2024 foreign savings into Thailand during 2024? 

 

And did if you did remit foreign income into Thailand in 2024 did you assess it as assessable and still manage to find a filed on the tax form to deduct it ? (as there is no place to exempt on a tax form that I could find). Or simply legally (IMHO) assess it as non-assessable?

 

If too private ... no need to answer.  I appreciate that talking about finances can be a sensitive manner.  I am just trying to understand better your tax situation 9with refunds in some cases).

 

"Ask me the five.....no, three!....questions, bridgekeeper.  I am not afraid!"

 

Non-O (retirement) extension.  No Thai-source income other than bank interest and dividends, total under 20K.  Filing joint, wife has no income.

 

Not receiving a pension.  All remittances are pre-2024 savings.  Total slightly above my TEDA for assessable remittances, but irrelevant as I self-determine all remittances to be non-assessable.

 

I printed off a list of Wise transfers when I went to my local office.  TRD lady asked salary or pension?  I said prior savings.  She accepted that and said no need to file unless claiming refund of withholding.

[anchadian]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

Another poster who fails to read and comprehend.

 

I did NOT obtain a TIN, so please explain how you come to believe that I will be on the TRD radar.

I stated, IF you obtained a TIN.

[The Cyclist]

7 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

From 28:00-30:30 they confirmed that if your remittances are not assessable, you don't need a TIN and you don't need to file.

 

Cash in bank or existing savings.

 

7 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

At 31:30 they tell us that pensions are assessable if not excluded. 

 

Not it doesn't, It says Pensions are potentially taxable, depending on how much you bring. This is 1 of the occasions that I said that exempt income was given a stiff ignoring. It does not address Government Pension, US SS or any others that people are claiming are exempt and therefore not assessable.

 

7 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

So this confirms TRD is only interested in assessable income, no need to declare all remittances to include non-assessable income.

 

Try again, after reading @Guavaman excellent summary on the previous page

 

Quote

In summary, "non-assessable" is not a concept that appears within the context of the Thai Tax Code; "exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation" is the concept applied in the RD context.

 

Any reasonable person would read that as all income is assessable, However some incomes are exempt / excluded from the actual tax calculation.

 

For the majority of the posters on this thread, that would be all the sources of income ( Government Pensions, US SS, etc ) that are only taxable in the home Country

 

Other incomes outside of the above, would be subject to a Tax Credit arrangement to ensure that double Taxation did not occur.

[Badrabbit]

7 hours ago, Jim Blue said:

Cyclist what is the 7,000 baht fee for exactly ?

Strange question, they get the TIN for you.

[Briggsy]

11 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

True of getting off topic. Anyway, the UK revenue site is clear. If you don't live in UK, have absolutely no assets there (OK maybe just a bank which is fine) you are NON-RESIDENT for tax purposes. There are some other things - your State Pension willl be taxed at  source (25%?)  but that's it. Others may know more..

Non-residence for tax purposes in the UK is determined by the statutory residence tests.

https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/01/statutory-residence-test-flowchart.pdf

Non-residents are taxed on UK income even though they are non-resident.

State pension is never taxed at source but is taxable income. (Any tax due is generally collected by adjustment of the tax code of other income, e.g. company pension)

 

I hope this clarifies your understanding.

[Briggsy]

7 hours ago, Wyabcp said:

Would it be better to have a self assessment ? so that you can prove what tax is already paid in UK ?

Interesting question.

 

If you want to, anybody can register for self-assessment in the UK and fill in a tax return. (Take care to do it right!) In all likelihood, HMRC will de-register for the following year if there is no point.

 

Proof of tax paid is shown on P60's for employment and pensions, official DWP letters for state pension and interest certificates for bank or building society interest. In fact, all sources of income have to provide proof of tax deducted. (There are other sources of income I have not mentioned here.)

 

I see your point by putting it on a tax return, it would be 'all in one place'. This is called an SA302 (tax calculation) in the UK. Even if you don't fill in a tax return, you can print off a similar document from the Government Gateway.

 

My advice is not to fill in an unrequired UK tax return but wait and see what supporting information the Thai Revenue Department require.

[Yumthai]

8 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

I printed off a list of Wise transfers when I went to my local office.  TRD lady asked salary or pension?  I said prior savings.  She accepted that and said no need to file unless claiming refund of withholding.

So basically just tell TRD your remittances are exempted and bingo no tax to pay. No supporting docs asked, no further question.

I wonder why people worry.

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

12 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

So this confirms TRD is only interested in assessable income, no need to declare all remittances to include non-assessable income.

 

Try again, after reading @Guavaman excellent summary on the previous page

 

Quote

In summary, "non-assessable" is not a concept that appears within the context of the Thai Tax Code; "exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation" is the concept applied in the RD context.

NDN, let me help you out in language the Cyclist can understand:

 

So, this confirms TRD is only interested in income that is NOT exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation, thus no need to declare all remittances to include income exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation.

 

Duh.

[JimGant]

10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

I printed off a list of Wise transfers when I went to my local office.  TRD lady asked salary or pension?  I said prior savings.  She accepted that and said no need to file unless claiming refund of withholding.

I'm curious. Why ask the TRD clerk anything? Can't you just hand in your paper tax return without any discussion? Which begs the question -- if I ever have to file, can I just mail in the paper tax return?

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

NDN, let me help you out in language the Cyclist can understand:

 

So, this confirms TRD is only interested in income that is NOT exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation, thus no need to declare all remittances to include income exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation.

 

Duh.

 

Really ?

 

What does this say, taken from the post by @Guavaman on the previous page

 

Quote

In summary, "non-assessable" is not a concept that appears within the context of the Thai Tax Code; "exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation" is the concept applied in the RD context.

 

Try getting your head around that concept.

 

Non - Assessable is not a concept within the Thai Tax Code.

 

Exempt, for the purpose of tax calculation is a concept within the Thai Tax Code.

 

Likewise, so is the concept of Tax credits.

 

So take your ' Duh ' and poke it.

[JimGant]

50 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Non - Assessable is not a concept within the Thai Tax Code.

 

Exempt, for the purpose of tax calculation is a concept within the Thai Tax Code.

But the terms can be used interchangeably. How many time have you fallen off your tricycle?

[The Cyclist]

Just now, JimGant said:

But the terms can be used interchangeably. How many time have you fallen off your tricycle?

 

Is that the best you can muster ? Weak, feeble and embarrassing.

[sabaijai]

On 1/16/2025 at 2:31 PM, Briggsy said:

This thread is primarily aimed at those not working in Thailand, chiefly retired and now worrying about their foreign income being taxed.

 

When I was on a work permit, there was no need to file a tax return. However the employer may have had to show tax receipts. That was all done by the employer. But I definitely did not file a tax return and my WP and extension was renewed every year without fail. This must be a new thing that you are referring to.

 It's not a new requirement. If you look through the extension of stay application forms it's explicitly mentioned. I renew my stay permit and work permit each year for the last 15 years at One Stop in Chamchuri Square. Some years, officers there ask for my current Thai tax receipt/clearance, and some years they don't. I always bring one in case.